Web Original This Troper Discussion

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SoberIrishman
Topic
08:51:42 PM Jul 30th 2011
I'm going to be blunt: Why was this deleted?
Komodin
09:00:42 PM Jul 30th 2011
SoberIrishman
09:11:37 PM Jul 30th 2011
I remember the page having "You have to laugh at yourself once and a while". What happened to that?

How were we advertising it by having a page for it? By that logic we're advertising everything.
Jackerel
01:34:21 AM Jul 31st 2011
Not exactly "laughing at yourself" when most of the comments were half-assed threats of doxing, mocking abuse victims (yes, I'm aware it's the internet and it could be idiotic attention whoring), and "BAWWW! THEY DON'T FOCUS ON BORING CLASSIC LITERATURE!"

Granted, we still allow Busy Street, which is infamous for whining about TV Tropes as well. Still, shouldn't have been removed.
SoberIrishman
10:14:43 AM Jul 31st 2011
I think the excuse for stuff like Busy Street was that TV Tropes isn't all it talks about. Though Crazy Goggs talked about other stuff too, like the Nice Guys and Brony stuff.
Jackerel
01:30:30 PM Jul 31st 2011
Yeah, but that didn't happen until late in the series. About the only thing changing is that Goggs is probably going to whine about MLP once he hits the 100th episode. It's like a trainwreck of internet tough guys.

We did lock Something Awful and Encyclopedia Dramatica for similar bullshit reasons, though.
Peri
04:44:12 PM Aug 24th 2011
We simply can't afford to acknowledge the existence of people or organizations that don't completely approve of every page on the site. Someone's feelings could potentially get hurt, and then where would we be?
Stovepipe
02:34:39 PM Sep 7th 2011
I don't see what the problem is. Was it TOO insightful? If anything the series does this website a lot of good, especially for weeding out the more unsightly elements.
Steam
Topic
01:32:43 AM Jul 1st 2011
Between finding out about this series, and also the Lust Game and the mod-exclusive forums, I think I'm finally starting to realize how ugly and fucked up this place can get.
Komodin
01:33:48 AM Jul 1st 2011
Okay...?
Steam
01:55:11 AM Jul 1st 2011
Well, it's just a case of the wool being pulled from my eyes. Admittedly any large enough wiki or whatever is going to attract some weirder people. It's just law of averages and it's something you have to deal with. But like, the crap that went on with the Lust Game, where people for years were trying to give a hollar to the mods about it, and when the mods finally did put a stop to it they bitched about never being informed.

Only three years ago I held it up as some bastion of intelligence and critical discussions of writing, and now I'm all too aware of how much of a circlejerk things like the "gushing" pages can be. The "This Troper" series just drove a few more nails into the coffin.
EponymousKid
05:56:21 AM Jul 1st 2011
I still think the site's a fairly worthwhile endeavor if you keep away from TT and the forums, but you do what you want.
Steam
07:20:15 AM Jul 1st 2011
Oh I wholeheartedly agree with you there. I still do enjoy this place, I'm just very, very well-aware of its dark side.
Jackerel
05:05:34 PM Jul 1st 2011
edited by Jackerel
The forums isn't a hellpit. You have trolls that are in need of banning because the mods are too busy dealing with wiki drama, but if you keep to a few threads that aren't weird shit or fanboy wars, your face won't explode.
EponymousKid
09:21:25 PM Jul 1st 2011
I should have specified that I didn't mean the entirety of the forums; the media subforums, trope talk, wiki talk, writer's block... that's alright. Now that IJBM is gone, it's easier to like — though Yack Fest can be extremely ridiculous and is where much of the silly bullcrap occurs.
SoberIrishman
Topic
05:34:23 PM Jun 22nd 2011
Crazy Goggs dumped the Plainwalker idea quite a while ago. I think we need to tweak the introduction a little.
SomeSortOfTroper
Topic
07:20:40 AM Mar 3rd 2011
Wrong namespace.

Moving page to WebOriginal.This Troper
EponymousKid
Topic
06:33:30 PM Mar 1st 2011
Yeesh. Looking at the comments on these vids, I had no clue there was so much hatred for this site.
nuclearneo577
06:41:31 PM Mar 1st 2011
Probably banned whiners. Someone said we sucked because of Fast Eddie being too trigger happy.
EponymousKid
08:00:05 PM Mar 1st 2011
Yeah, there does seem to be a "baaaaw i r b& fuk u tvtopes" movement, more or less.

Of course, the guys making these vids themselves seem to hate the site even though they're cherry-picking the really bad pages, many of which aren't even around anymore, and have yet to do anything on the main namespace (which is, like, most of the site).

Don't get me wrong, I like the vids (even though I myself was a subject of mockery in one of them), but there's way, way more to this site than the bad stuff that they showcase and they don't seem to want to recognize that.
nuclearneo577
08:08:46 PM Mar 1st 2011
What I said was talking about was a comment on a this positive video (I haven't seen all of it.) What is weird is that the other thumbed up comment was positive.
EponymousKid
08:59:10 PM Mar 1st 2011
yeesh, it's even worse on that vid. Why so much hatred? Some people, I swear.

It's probably best to just not think about it, but I never knew so many people hated this site so much.
99.103.197.13
10:35:36 AM Mar 2nd 2011
Well I think alot of the bashing is the pointlessness of it all. 1. Alot of the things getting posted are very unnerving because of there close association with works aimed at a younger audience. 2. Many of of them are simply too much information to be posted on a fairly public site that dedicates most of its efforts to kids shows.

EponymousKid
11:30:10 AM Mar 2nd 2011
edited by EponymousKid
No, I understand completely why people hate the really bizarre and horrifying stuff on the site. I don't understand why people assume that's what the whole site is about as opposed to fairly minor subsets - many of which have been heavily pruned or even cut entirely since being featured.

"TV Tropes: where everyone is a self absorbed 12 year old" (based on a handful of examples from a troper tales page even though nobody reads those) is the sort of thing I'm talking about. Or the line on the guy's profile that says "TV Tropes is a horrible waste of human effort."
86.23.0.24
10:43:00 AM Mar 6th 2011
lol you think nesshelper(masterknightdh) is representative of a large number of people

The reason why people hate the site is because it's a giant spergfest populated by creepy weirdos whose perversion runs unchecked. Nothing really wrong with spergfests mind you, they can be useful, and the desire to accept all is understandable - I'm guessing most people on this site got bullied in school and don't want anything similar to happen again - but there's a limit, which tvtropes has long since passed. Eventually you need to call people out on their bullshit or it's just going to get worse for everyone. A hugbox is not a healthy community and some good old fashioned mockery can help to get the juices of improvement flowing.

The other option is to completely eliminate the community aspect of tvtropes and just have the main namespace. That isn't a very good solution, but it should be seriously considered if managing the community proves too difficult.
Jackerel
01:31:49 PM Mar 24th 2011
edited by Jackerel
>implying the rest of the internet isn't one big creepy spergfest

The community isn't the problem, in my opinion, especially since the forums have a rather dedicated sub-board for clean-up and repairs and Troper Tales is a black sheep and source of mockery all over the fora. That's kind of cutting off an arm because there's a zit on it, or... something.

In my opinion, Fetish Fuel's removal was a step in the right direction, and I really hope Troper Tales is the next to go, especially since the admins are still deadlocked on what to do with Troper Tales (and since the FYAD topic got locked because the mods can't read shit, hurr "board invasions"). Anyway, I salute the poor bastard Goons weeding through all this.

I wonder if my old comments on some T Ts got mocked, heh.
EponymousKid
06:40:26 PM Mar 24th 2011
The thing is that I was a supporter, and then the guy who makes the vids clocked me with no explanation and people are telling lies about me deleting my profile after being mocked in one of the videos. Enjoy the series while you can, Jack, you might be next.
130.58.192.75
08:51:06 PM Mar 24th 2011
@jackerel This is the problem with TV Tropes. Even people who are aware of the problems with this site shrug them off because "it's not so bad." It is, though. It really is. To claim that the examples featured on this series are outliers is to ignore the fact that a large, large percentage of Tropers— in fact, I would argue a majority— are fundamentally broken people who are so deep in their own bullshit and their obsessive fandom that they have completely lost the ability to function in society. TV Tropes is a hugbox for people so dedicated to escapism and obsession that they've lost the ability to deal with the world as it is. It promotes a reductive, simplistic worldview that just doesn't match up to objective reality.

It might serve a useful purpose (though even that is debatable given how many of the pages have just become giant word vomit and how many of the "tropes" have no standard definition or agreed-upon boundaries). However, it fosters a really toxic community.
Jackerel
04:13:48 AM Mar 25th 2011
edited by Jackerel
@EPK - Uh, it's a mocking series run by a hatedom, made of Goons. What did you expect?
EponymousKid
10:09:57 AM Mar 25th 2011
edited by EponymousKid
@130 lol u mad?

The thing is that there's literally nothing that you said that doesn't apply to the entirety of the internet. It's all a tool for shut-ins to foster their withdrawal from reality. YouTube especially, being one of the biggest timesinks among regular internet users.
187.18.206.201
09:32:47 PM Mar 25th 2011
@EPK

You are right, but it's not like SA don't mock other sites. It seems you are the mad one here because of a vendetta with Goggs.
EponymousKid
09:49:49 PM Mar 25th 2011
edited by EponymousKid
@187

...Dang, you got me. You're right (sort of - I really wouldn't describe it as a vendetta so much as me being butthurt), I'm upset about getting blocked. Sorry for being a jerk about it. 130 has something of a point, at least regarding tropes with ill-defined parameters, but I still think there's nothing uniquely wrong with TV Tropes that isn't part of a larger problem with the internet as a whole. That, and there's a constant drive to improve the site and its content in any way possible, hence cutting Fetish Fuel and many Troper Tales pages, redefining tropes that have completely lost their way, and even sequestering YMMV items to subpages.
Gerpy
02:05:02 PM Apr 27th 2011
This Troper and Busy Street try to better someone through mocking them and tough love.

If the creepy people on TV tropes think it's acceptable to share with everyone on TV tropes their creepy behavior, than they'll never mature and realize that some of the shit they do isn't acceptable in society. A lot of Troper's Tales consist of "Hey guys I acted like a twat in public and now people make fun of me...they just don't understand me." Wrong, they do understand that you're creepy and are mocking you for it. Sooner you realize that the worlds not fair the sooner you'll be able to try and mature and become a more socially adjusted individual.
EponymousKid
04:20:12 PM Apr 27th 2011
I got unblocked like three weeks ago, so that's all behind me now.

Anyway, Gerpy, I see where you're coming from to a certain point. But for the most part, the people commenting on the videos just want to laugh at pathetic losers, not make creeps realize they're weird. Comments like "If you post on TV Tropes, nobody really likes you" abound.
Jackerel
09:15:59 PM May 11th 2011
Yes, wikistalking random nobodies and reading dumb posts will make the wiki all better.
EponymousKid
08:59:51 PM May 12th 2011
That's an interesting way to put it, I guess.

On a somewhat related note, it's difficult to see how This Troper really betters the site when very few of its targets are identifiable (either since the TT page in question is gone or the entry isn't signed) — and fewer still even know about the series. I think I'm one of, what, three or four people featured on This Troper to be aware of its existence. Ultimately, all that's going to be raised is negative opinion towards TV Tropes, even if it starts to reach a wider audience.
Jackerel
10:52:41 PM May 12th 2011
That was kind of the point, EPK. Well, that, or "LOOOOOL LOOK AT THE NERDS".
warpandweft
11:13:25 AM May 22nd 2011
@jackerel hint: it's the second one.
Gerpy
11:29:47 PM May 23rd 2011
I really would like to think it's a form of tough love for the creepy people. The people who instead of being forced to adapt to society, became shut-ins and go on this troper to brag about how cool they are while not understanding why no one in real life thinks they're cool.
emeriin
03:16:26 AM May 24th 2011
So the people in Abuse Is Okay When It's Female on Male should have been forced to adapt to society? That's nice.
EponymousKid
02:31:46 PM May 24th 2011
I think that video was pretty cruel, but it's also not what Gerpy was talking about. He was talking about nerds who think they're badass and creeps who think they aren't strange, not the victims of abuse.

Granted, if you are a victim of abuse it's probably not a great idea to withdraw from civilization either, but still.
koook160
02:46:37 PM Jun 6th 2011
I personally think the series is brilliant. I find the people who dislike this series are either butthurt of afraid of being butthurt.
Jackerel
03:07:30 PM Jun 6th 2011
"butthurt of afraid of being butthurt"

My mind is full of fuck.
MrDeath
07:51:36 AM Jun 7th 2011
I think the first "of" was supposed to be "or".

That said, the fact that "butthurt" is apparently a word now makes me weep for the species. It just sounds so childish and stupid.
EponymousKid
10:40:16 AM Jun 7th 2011
I'm still not sure what "afraid of being butthurt" is supposed to mean, though. Like, either you're mad or you aren't, which is it?

And I agree, it's a stupid word.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=WebOriginal.ThisTroper