Video Game Homefront Discussion

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Tableau
Topic
07:51:34 PM Mar 28th 2011
edited by Tableau
I don't really get why Connor is labeled an Heroic Sociopath. His problem to me seemed to be that he felt too much for his comrades and his cause. His attitude (except his reaction at the grave site) was the most down to earth of the three and saved the team's hides and the mission more than once while still showing feelings for others (something a sociopath doesn't have). If anything he's closer to an Anti-Hero who is very Hot-Blooded. Plus an Heroic Sociopath is suppose to be funny and Connor is far from that.
DoctorDogGirl
01:10:57 AM Apr 4th 2011
Heroic Sociopaths don't have to be funny, they just have to be protagonists who are sociopaths. Connor isn't really a sociopath but his desire to use White Phosphorous on the Koreans and his KILL EVERYONE plans may rub people this way.
gameragodzilla
08:48:25 AM Apr 4th 2011
edited by gameragodzilla
This troper found Connor quite amusing, so he fits the "funny" part of Heroic Sociopath for this troper. Connor isn't as crazy as other Heroic Sociopaths, but he does fit the definition.
TrevMUN
Topic
05:46:55 PM Mar 10th 2011
I'm not sure who was doing it, but someone kept tagging the story with "Idiot Plot" concerning the way the international community overlooked the Greater Korean Republic's expansionism.

It was causing natter to crop up. Natter that was correct, but whose editors didn't repair instead of reply.

So what I've done is add a note on the YMMV tag not to add Idiot Plot to the list, and followed that up taking the original example text and using it instead for History Repeats, with an added pothole to World War II so people who want to dismiss the plot as absurd will understand that this sort of thing really happened once before.
ObssesedNuker
12:03:32 PM Mar 12th 2011
edited by ObssesedNuker
This sort of thing 'did not really happen once before'. World War II is a invalid analogy because, for starters, neither Japan nor Germany ever considered invading the United States. The closest you got was Hitler doing some really fantastic speculation.

The Japanese response to the Korean peninsula being reunified under a (obviously still) hostile North Korean government followed by a total US withdrawal from that part of Pacific would be too immediately boost their military across the board, not sit on their asses for two years and then surrender. Japan is also able to construct a nuclear arsenal in a few months that would be larger and far more sophisticated then what the North Koreans took nearly a decade to develop. Obviously that isn't going to happen today, both because of the culture stigma and because the Japanese can rely on US protection. But if the latter were to suddenly go away, then reality will trump the former.

Secondly, China's response to North Korea peacefully reunifying with South Korea would be 'Well, we didn't expect that. Congratulations anyways.' China's response to North Korea somehow magically annexing Japan two years later will be 'NOW WAIT ONE MOMENT!' and no matter what economic trouble it is facing, China is still a superior military power then the two Korea's if for no other reason then they have a much larger and more sophisticated nuclear arsenal. And China is not the only major conventional and nuclear power in the region, Russia has significant relations with Japan and South Korea, would react negatively to a Korean annexation of Japan and, unlike China or the US, actually BENEFITS from a massive oil price spike since they are the second largest oil exporter in the world.

Now, as to attacking and invading those Southeast Asian countries inside of a year, numbers alone are against it. Combined, the two Korea's navies and the Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Force possess 998 vessels. However, only 103 of these are deep water capable surface warships and submarines (by the way, only 38 of those are Korean vessels, the other 65 are Japanese, how did Korea annex Japan again?), the combined deep-water surface warships of the Thai, Taiwanese, and Vietnamese navies are only 45. But then consider since the Korean Navy is coming too them, those three navies are able to use their 'brown-water' warships, in which case the numbers jump from forty-five to TWO-HUNDRED FOURTEEN combatants. Then factor in the Southeast Asian countries will be able to supplement these forces with land-based aircraft and missiles while the combined Korean/Japanese forces... won't.

The only way for this 'Uber-Korea' to succeed is nuclear weapons, which is great if it wasn't for the fact that using nukes would have the rest of the world coming down on them like a brick for such a blatantly hostile act.

I haven't even gotten into the economics of all this, like asking where the North Koreans themselves are getting the oil to conduct all these inevitably fuel-hungry military invasions since neither of the Korea's or Japan produce enough oil to cover their demands and turning to the international markets would run into the very same problems every single other country is facing.

I could keep going, like how Kaos Studios thinks EMP works the same way (rather ironically) as Infinity Ward does (hint: it doesn't) or how North Korea's economic policies would continue to massively hinder itself unless it got rid of them and thus exposed itself to the same crises gripping all the other countries. In other words: the scenario requires all the other nations to be Too Dumb to Live and for North Korea's Juche ideology to actually deliver on what it claims too (although wouldn't that mean everybody should adopt Juche if it allows you to become a superpower?). The sequence of events are not remotely 'baby steps', instead they are A Wizard Did It, plain and simple.
Jonn
01:21:52 AM Mar 14th 2011
Oil: There are mentions of them mining shale in the game, from which oil can be processed, assuming it's the right type.

EMP: Rule of Fun. If the Goliath was shut down for good when it was hit with those EMP rockets, the game would be unwinnable. If it wasn't affected at all, said rockets would be pointless. This is the same game where EM Ps burned out pretty much every electronic device on the continent.

As for everything else; the entire world economy is in the crapper. North Korea is isolationist, so they don't have to worry about that.
TreatEaston
12:48:19 PM Mar 17th 2011
In-game news clippings report Korean and Iran are on very close relations, with Korean Special Forces actively fighting alongside Iranian forces in stomping out resistance in Iraq and as a result Iran supplying Korea with cheaper oil.

While that doesn't explain how they're managing to supply all of their military and economic might with just Iranian oil, it's a start.
DarkPaladinX
08:43:29 PM Mar 19th 2011
edited by DarkPaladinX
Actually, North Korea and Iran are very close allies in Real Life and reportedly that North Korea and Iran are even helping each other in their controversial nuclear programs: [1]. Noting that both of their governments hate United States and Israel, it's no surprise.
INH5
09:37:33 AM Mar 20th 2011
The whole thing really comes back to them originally planning to have China as the bad guy, but then having to shoe-horn North Korea into that role when they realized this could get their whole company Banned in China. If you replace North Korea with China and think about it, things start to fall into place. They survive the fuel crisis through special deals with Russia, are emboldened by the US's weakness (replace Korea taking Japan with China taking Taiwan), expand across the Pacific, build up to full superpower status, and finally attack (don't ask me why they would do that, maybe the original story gave a reason).

Are these events plausible? No, especially given the short timeframe, but they're greatly exaggerated versions of potentially realistic events, which is pretty par for the course in video games like this (see EndWar, Frontlines: Fuel of War, World in Conflict, Modern Warfare, and so on). The stuff they've been forced to come up with to replace China with the Acceptable Target of North Korea is complete fantasy. I've heard that early info indicated that the GKR annexed China (likely leaving it with the same territory held by the GCR in the original backstory) prior to the US invasion. They apparently decided that that was going too far and abandoned it, but it really shows how far Kaos had to go.

The worst part is, this isn't the first time this happened, and it won't be the last. Crysis also replaced Chinese enemies with Norks, and now there's news that the Red Dawn remake has done pretty much the same thing that Home Front did. I understand that this kind of portrayal can be in poor taste, but it's disheartening to see entertainment companies having to change the content of their work to comply with a foreign country's authoritarian policies.
CharlesPhipps
12:32:48 PM Mar 20th 2011
Even the CIA guy who made Homefront said that this is almost completely impossible, especially given the KPA has a Bond-like Death Laser by the end of it.

This is mostly a story to talk about freedom and the prices thereof.
TrevMUN
07:24:15 PM Mar 20th 2011
edited by TrevMUN
See, all these discussion posts are exactly why I took the actions I did. Otherwise they would have been all over the article, rather than on the discussion page.

"This sort of thing 'did not really happen once before'. World War II is a invalid analogy because, for starters, neither Japan nor Germany ever considered invading the United States. The closest you got was Hitler doing some really fantastic speculation."

Obsessed Nuker, you are trying to invalidate the analogy by claiming that Japan and Germany never intended to invade America. You're trying to say the analogy is invalid because the specific details of World War II do not match those of Homefront's to the letter.

That wasn't the point people were making with the analogy in the first place.

People bring up World War II as a counterargument to those eager to slap "Idiot Plot" on Homefront because the lead-up to that war was a case in which a country that was broken economically and industrially suddenly made a rapid recovery over the course of a decade or two, in a time in which economic turmoil had the global community reeling.

Germany's return to a position of strength during a time in which the international community was reeling is mirrored in Homefront's portrayal of North Korea.

"Even the CIA guy who made Homefront said that this is almost completely impossible, especially given the KPA has a Bond-like Death Laser by the end of it."

You're not only misrepresenting what he said, but you're also selling their effort short that way. To re-quote the guy:

"... we went to a very rigorous, academic research process to make sure to not only look at North Korea's current state but to look at historical examples how things could parallel and turn events. History repeats itself. From today to the day the invasion starts in the game, if you combine everything, the odds are very very slim this becomes true. But when you look at the storyline step by step, every step is a coinflip but a plausible step. So once you get there, it's plausible. And from there the next step is plausible as well. Even though the whole thing is fictional, it comes with plausible baby steps."

In other words, they took the time and effort to create an Alternate History scenario in which North Korea could turn to a position of strength and do what it does in Homefront, and they made sure it was grounded in events that could happen, but are likely not going to. So, is such a series of events very likely to happen? No, but they took the effort to make it plausible and believable.
EvilestTim
04:06:08 AM Apr 25th 2011
So basically you said "don't add it to YMMV because my mileage varied."
TrevMUN
04:16:54 PM Apr 25th 2011
Try replying to my actual comment instead of your straw man, Evilest Tim.

I quite clearly said I put the tag up and removed the Idiot Plot entry because it was inviting natter. Just because it's on the YMMV page doesn't mean it's okay to have Thread Mode squabbling.
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