Video Game Civilization Discussion

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JujuP
Topic
05:30:53 AM Apr 26th 2014
Should this page be split along the different iterations of the serie to better the ease of reading and editing?

Dan2paul
Topic
04:24:10 AM Mar 7th 2014
Did anyone ever notice how Civ V's unique ability mechanic feels a lot like Rhye's and Fall of Civilization mod for Civ IV? Also the flipping of cities due to ideology feels not unlike the stability system?

pittsburghmuggle
Topic
02:17:52 PM Sep 21st 2013
edited by 108.39.210.41
Voicing disapproval with removing the anachronisms (listed reason was "kind of nattery". I disagree. I'm not putting back, per Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement, but I think all that should be left there and am voicing it in case others feel the same. I'm aware it says in the comments "No examples please, we get it", but would like to know who and why this was decided.

This is what was removed:

  • One of the oddest examples of this is the Oxford University National Wonder in Civ IV. The significance of Oxford, and the reason it's one of the world's leading establishments today is that it was one of the first University set up in the world (at least in any format we'd vaguely recognise today). However, in the game, you need to have built at least 6 other Universities to construct it. Also, since it is a National Wonder, every nation can have one. At the same time. This means that there could be as many as 18 Oxford Universities in a single world.
  • The tech tree, at least in Civ IV, is however set up to make a few things happen "on time" in a normal game. Christianity is typically created around 30 AD and a Civilization will get the tech to find the new world (on a map type that supports it) around 1500 AD and to colonize it a few turns later. Nothing flat out stops you from progressing to these points earlier if you are devoted or get lucky with a great person though.
  • In Civ V, trapping is one of the techs you can develop in ancient times. The graphic for it, however, shows a fox looking through a chain link fence, which wasn't developed until the 1840's.
  • In IV, the "check spaceship progress" option lets you see your futuristic spaceport and the progress you've made on your spaceship. You can check this even after starting the game in ancient times - and the spaceport is every bit as futuristic, though there's no spaceship.
Gizensha
Topic
02:52:44 PM Jan 9th 2011
Was it actually inspired by the Civilization (and later Advanced Civilization) board game? I thought Sid Meier had stated that Civilization/Advanced Civilization wasn't on his radar when he designed Civ, but he couldn't speak for his co-developer.

Since I'm working on memory there, I haven't removed it, mind.

Speaking of the origins of the game, would it be worth noting that Meier has stated, iirc, that he was inspired by SimCity, to the point that early prototypes of Civ were real time rather than turn based?
UnclGhost
Topic
12:27:25 AM Oct 1st 2010
edited by UnclGhost
I liked the old quote, so complaining disagreeing as requested.
Grazzt
11:47:01 AM Oct 2nd 2010
I'm voting for the Henry V quote as well. Admittedly, I'm the person who originally put it up, so I'm a bit biased. Anyway, I think it perfectly encapsulates how the player needs to use their imagination to turn the simulation into something more.

And if I had to choose a second fave, I would use a shortened version of the opening lines from Civ and Civ IV. Maybe the first three lines and the last four?
SirFrederick
Topic
12:34:53 AM Jul 21st 2010
I'd debate both the Artistic License - History points - both for factual accuracy, and for relevance to knowing history! First up - modern democracies might not be free from corruption, but they're honest and accountable compared to comparable dictatorships. Second, Fundamentalism was absent from Civ 3, but it returns (in the form of the Theocracy religious civic) in Civ 4.
Fighteer
06:24:51 AM Jul 21st 2010
All of these You Fail X entries are pointless to add to the page, as we're discussing a game, not a history/economics/civics class. They should be removed entirely, IMO.
Specialist290
09:58:17 AM Jul 21st 2010
I agree with keeping out any examples that deal solely with game mechanics, but there are actual, factual errors in the Civilopedia entries (for instance, Julius Caesar being described as "the first emperor of Rome" in one installment).
hieronymuserroneous
09:51:35 PM Jul 22nd 2010
I disagree with Fighteer's point; the game itself is meant as a (heavily simplified) likeness of the growth of human civilizations throughout history. It doesn't matter that it's a game; the fact of the matter is, the developers chose a concept in which history/economics/civics ARE applicable. They obviously aren't intending to create something to the standards of academia, but then how many producers of games/fiction/films/etc. actually do? There is source material (historical example) that the developers don't really have a good excuse to entirely ignore.
Fighteer
07:16:59 AM Jul 23rd 2010
It doesn't matter. The point is to make the games accessible to players. They aren't pretending to be historically accurate. And the trope entries are Natter magnets.
Frdprfct
11:32:41 AM Jul 23rd 2010
edited by Frdprfct
It's irrelevant whether it's a game or a history class, if tropes are present we report them. I see nothing on the "You fail X forever" pages to indicate that we are not to mention them if it's in a specific medium.
Fighteer
01:25:42 PM Jul 23rd 2010
edited by Fighteer
Quoting directly from YFHF:

"This trope is for those who try to use history, but their knowledge of history seems to stop some time last week. They think Columbus personally discovered the United States"

You Fail is not for ideological disagreements over the impact of Communism on food production. It's for things like stating that Hitler was an American Indian. Civ is not canonical history. It makes no pretense at being so. When I conquered the Aztecs with my Babylonian Riflemen, I wasn't thinking, "Gee, why didn't my history teacher tell me about this?" When I negotiated for oil with Julius Caesar in 1980 AD, I wasn't thinking, "Gee, how could he possibly have lived this long?"

Now, Hollywood History might be a valid trope. But not "You Fail X Forever".
Frdprfct
03:09:44 PM Jul 23rd 2010
You'll find that no one is putting actual games in "You fail X forever", instead they are mentioning mechanics that make no sense when compared to their historical counterparts. This is valid, as not only are the mechanics based on some interpretation of their real-life counterparts, they are also described with, among other things, examples from real life.

Also: Are you saying that a caste system producing more social mobility is somehow not a case of failing X forever?

Fighteer
05:10:51 PM Jul 23rd 2010
Actually, in theory it's about the ability of a caste system to support specialists by setting them up with permanent positions.
Fighteer
Topic
02:44:47 PM Apr 27th 2010
Once again, let me point out that we're cataloging tropes, not engaging in witty banter for our own amusement. At least, not as much.
Fighteer
Topic
09:30:28 AM Apr 22nd 2010
edited by Fighteer
I know someone's going to be mad at me for excising a bunch of stuff, so let me explain on a few points. Feel free to disagree with me, but in discussion please.

  • Dude, Where's My Respect?: Contradicted by additional edits; you do get improved Relationship Values by donating particularly valuable techs, just not as much as if you were asked for them.
  • Global Warming: Just too much natter. The necessary points were already made in the main example.
  • Money for Nothing: Contradicted by the sub-bullets. Being able to upgrade your military is more than sufficient reason to keep a large treasury in IV.
  • Rock Beats Laser: Way too much explanation. Just the facts, ma'am.
  • The All-Seeing A.I.: No evidence in the current games that the AI knows the map and resource locations ahead of time.
  • Artistic License - Economics: I hope it is clear why so much of that conversation was cut.
  • Your Mileage May Vary: Dear gods, can we get rid of all the subjective tropes on main pages, please? YMMV is a phrase that could be applied to anything and is nearly always used to justify some controversial point that more properly belongs in Headscratchers. Here: JustBugsMe.Civilization. Add it all there if you want, go crazy.
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