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SpinyNorman
topic
11:45:32 AM Aug 18th 2014
The bit that toyed with the idea that gun control sort-of might have facilitated the holocaust had to go. I find that ridiculously simpleminded, even offensive. Some more reasons are included in my edit.
SeptimusHeap
11:50:44 AM Aug 18th 2014
While I find that entry to be extremely questionable and injecting modern gun politics a bit too much, the "correction" you posted is essentially a Justifying Edit and we don't do these:

However it is a serious fallacy to think that with more weapons, the holocaust wouldn't have happened. For one, the many countries that were occupied had had armies, of the kind with actual weapons, but their defenses were overrun. If afterwards a resistance group would have organised a large scale, armed insurrection to prevent deportation, the nazi forces would have rounded them up and dealt with them mercilessly. Acts of retribution included execution of civilians or even massacring entire villages, such as Oradour-sur-Glane in France. And that's even forgetting general objections like hindsight bias about the holocaust and the Milgram experiment, which was specifically designed to answer the questions who had been Hitler's willing executioners.
ohphuckidunno
topic
08:14:49 AM Sep 15th 2013
Hate to nitpick, but Hitler wasn't really that concerned with Africans. At that point, anyway. He saw them as uncivilized savages that posed no threat to Europe, unlike the Jews and the Slavs supposedly did. I believe he even made somewhat flattering comments toward Africans in admiration of their fighting spirit in the face of a technologically superior European war machine. Not to mention that at that time, very few Africans were even let into the vast majority of Europe with maybe Portugal being the exception. What shaped his racially motivated hostility toward Slavs, Gypsies and Jews came from periods of his life where he was surrounded by those other Europeans. I'm not aware of any atrocities carried out against Africans and I'm pretty well read on this stuff. If it's because he supposedly refused to shake Jesse Owen's hand at the Olympics, Owens himself disputes the claim saying Hitler was gracious and respectful and waved or saluted him on his way out...which is the only reason he didn't shake the man's hand. He was a busy man, planning on conquering Europe...remember?

The only racism Owens experienced at that time was when he came home to the US. I'm not saying Hitler was particularly fond of blacks/Africans but his racism toward them was no more severe than that of any other nation at the time, whether they were European, Asian, friggin' Eskimos...Hitler didn't want Africa. He only sent troops in to rescue Mussolini's worthless ass. He wanted Eastern Europe and Russia. He certainly would have set up puppet regimes in Western Europe but that was the extent of his ambition at the time.
Sidewinder
11:12:07 AM Feb 7th 2014
From what I've heard, the reason he didn't shake Owens' had because he only wanted to shake the hands of German winners. When his advisors told him he had to either shake everybody's hands, or nobody's, he decided on the latter alternative. Owen himself notet the following: "Hitler didn't snub me it was FDR who snubbed me. The president didn't even send me a telegram."
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