Discussion UsefulNotes / MixedMartialArts

Should we add a quotes page or a separate page for Badass Boast? Considering the nature of the sport and the athletes' bombastic personalities, that feels like a potential gold mine of awesome quotes

I've listed Minowaman as an example of "Narm Charm," but I'm not sure if that's the best place for him because as I understand, Narm Charm is something serious that is unintentionally funny but doesn't ruin the scene. Minowa's appearance and behavior is obviously quite deliberate. Maybe Camp would be a better category?

Took this out of Curb-Stomp Battle

• Subverted by Georges St-Pierre vs. Josh Koscheck II, as the grappling was far closer — Koscheck both quickly returning to his feet when taken down and even being the first UFC fighter to take down GSP in over three years. Unfortunately for him, the stand-up was horrifically one-sided thanks to GSP's jab, which swelled the area of Koscheck's right eye and broke the orbital bone by the end of the first round, costing him the depth perception needed to "find the range" for both takedown attempts and striking. Then the striking disparity got even worse.

GSP had already manhandled Koscheck once, and Kos was a pretty big underdog. The fight went more or less how all the critics were calling it. A Curb-Stomp Battle is supposed to be a surprisingly easy victory between apparently comparable foes.

Removed:

• An somewhat-inversion is the case of Jorge Gurgel, who has legitimate jiu-jitsu skill and lineage (being black belted by Marcus Aurelio), and has most of his MMA wins by submission... but whether for "the fans' entertainment" or thinking that it'll keep him popular enough to keep getting fights, he seems to insist on brawling on his feet even against better strikers.
  • TUF washout Andy Wang took this particular inversion Up To Eleven in his very, very short-lived UFC career.
  • Pretty much also applicable to any grappler who "falls in love with their hands," particularly after a KO or TKO win.
    • The most high-profile example in recent memory may be Rashad Evans, who famously knocked out Chuck Liddell with a brutal overhand right (unfortunately the first of three KO losses by Liddell in three years), then seized the title by TKO'ing Forrest Griffin... only to almost entirely eschew his wrestling against Lyoto Machida at UFC 98, leading to Evans' only loss to date and as humiliatingly an infamous "[[Gonk punch face]]" that may be remembered for years to come. In his two fights since he's won on takedowns and top control, leading to "lay and pray" accusations, especially since in both fights he would be knocked down in the third round, but at least he's learned his lesson... unlike Gurgel.

from Glass Cannon. That trope is more about people with a strong offense and an Achilles Heel that causes them to "shatter" or be defeated easily. These aren't good examples of that. Gurgel and Wang don't get quickly beaten when when they're on the feet, they're just mediocre kickboxers. And Rashad isn't a glass cannon at all.

Removed:

• Stand and Bang: A pejorative term for, in essence, the opposite of Lay and Pray — when a fighter chooses to brawl on his feet without apparent regard to defense, relying on his chin and physical toughness to succeed or outlast the other fighter... even when his skill set or physique don't support this. Jorge Gurgel is a particularly infamous example, due to his insistence on getting into fistfights despite being a Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt.

"Stand and bang" isn't a pejorative term. It's just another term for stand-up striking. Further, the description doesn't really exist as a universal concept within the sport. Some ground-fighters do spontaneously focus on striking, but they don't necessarily have the striking style described, and some "sloppy kickboxers" do try to gut out wins with tough chins and haymakers, but they don't necessarily have any ground game to ignore.

Removed the Weight Cutting section. I think it's way too much discussion of a fairly minor aspect of the sport, and can be adequately covered in a single paragraph in the Rules section.

WEIGHT CLASSES

MMA in North America generally uses 9 standard weight classes as determined by the Nevada State Athletic Commission (NSAC) for men's MMA. The UFC uses 5 of these weightclasses, ranging from lightweight to heavyweight. The WEC, a smaller organization owned by the same umbrella company as the UFC (Zuffa, Inc.), uses 3 of the lighter weight classes, ranging from Bantamweight to Lightweight. Note that MMA weightclasses differ (in some cases, radically) from their corresponding named classes in boxing and wrestling. Mixed martial arts in Europe and Japan usually have similar, but slightly different weight classes owing to the differences between english and metric system weights. In general, Japanese MMA tends to have looser restrictions on fights across weight classes, and weight cutting is not as common or extreme with Japanese fighters. Because weight classes are less strict in Japan, some organizations use less of them and will use different names for corresponding weight classes in western MMA (for example, the 205 pound class in the UFC is called "light heavyweight" while in PRIDE FC, it was called "middleweight"). See the other wiki for information on the minor differences between weight classes in differing organizations and countries.

• Weight Cutting: this is an system where a fighter goes on an extreme diet for weeks before a fight and then, during a workout, sweats out a large amount of "water weight" the day of the weigh-ins (almost always held the day before the fight) in order to weigh exactly the upper limit of a fighter's chosen weight class. The fighter then re-hydrates and eats normally the night before the fight, bringing them back to their natural weight. This ensures that the fighter will be larger and presumably stronger than would be expected due to weight class limits. Weight cutting is extremely prevalent in western MMA, particularly in the United States, due to the collegiate wrestling experience that many MMA fighters have. Cutting weight is a skill practiced by collegiate wrestlers, as well as amateur and professional boxers. Although some casual fans seem to regard cutting weight as cheating, the process is so prevalent (as least in American, Canadian and European MMA) that few fighters gain a significant advantage through weight cuts, since their opponents are cutting weight too. This is where the commentating terms "the cut" and "walking around weight" come into play; "the cut" refers to the process of shedding pounds, and "walking around weight" is the fighter's weight after rehydrating and eating a meal or two after weigh-ins. Some fighters hardly cut any weight at all (BJ Penn often fights above his natural 155, and ends up under the limit without cutting weight), while others cut a significant fraction of weight so they will be much larger than their opponents (WEC Featherweight Mike Brown cuts to 145 from around 170, and UFC Middleweight champion Anderson Silva cuts to 185 from around 215.) Still others have to cut weight to fight in their chosen weight class; notably, UFC Heavyweight champion Brock Lesnar and Interim Heavyweight champion Shane Carwin both cut to 265 from nearly 300 pounds. Other fighters simply progress through higher weight classes as they age and their body type changes; for example, UFC Lightweight Tyson Griffin defeated WEC Featherweight Urijah Faber at 145 pounds, but has since admitted that he's put on so much muscle that he can barely make 155 now; and UFC Light Heavyweight Jon Jones is widely expected to move up to Heavyweight by the latter part of his career as he fills out his lanky frame.

• NSAC Official Weight Classes: The weight numbers given are in pounds and represent the upper limit of a weight class' range. In western MMA, fighters almost always weigh in exactly on their class' upper limit, with heavyweight being an exception due to the large range the class covers. Classes not listed in bold are those not commonly used in North America or Europe (at least, not by the most successful organizations) due to a lack of depth. First fighter listed is the current WEC/UFC champion in that class (if applicable), fighters are listed in their most common weight class unless otherwise marked.
  • Flyweight, 125 lbs. Notable fighters: Shinichi Kojima.
  • Bantamweight, 135 lbs. Notable fighters: Dominick Cruz, Miguel Torres, Jeff Curran.
  • Featherweight, 145 lbs. Notable fighters: Jose Aldo, Norifumi "Kid" Yamamoto, Urijah Faber.
  • Lightweight, 155 lbs. Notable fighter: BJ Penn, Shinya Aoki, Takanori Gomi, Kenny Florian.
  • Welterweight, 170 lbs. Notable fighter: George St. Pierre, Matt Hughes, Jake Shields, Nick Diaz.
  • Middleweight, 185 lbs. Notable fighter: Anderson Silva, Demian Maia, Cung Le, Wanderlei Silva (2009-present), Jason "Mayhem" Miller.
  • Light Heavyweight, 205 lbs. Notable fighter: Lyoto Machida, Mauricio "Shogun" Rua, Chuck Liddell, Wanderlei Silva (1996-2009), Randy Couture (variable), Forrest Griffin.
  • Heavyweight, 265 lbs. Notable fighter: Brock Lesnar, Fedor Emelianenko, Frank Mir, Antonio "Minotauro" Nogueira, Mirko "Cro Cop" Filopovic, Alistair Overeem, Randy Couture (variable).
  • Super Heavyweight 265+/ no upper limit. Notable fighters: Mariusz Pudzianowski, Mark Hunt, Antonio "Bigfoot" Silva, Bob Sapp.