Useful Notes Asperger Syndrome Discussion

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05:27:23 AM Dec 22nd 2017
Please could I request the line "they are unsure of what emotion others are feeling" be edited to "they may be unsure of what emotion others are feeling?"
12:30:02 AM Feb 15th 2017
I looked up why this page was locked, and it's because of bloat. Then I looked up bloat, and it means a big amount of swelling. The fun thing is that this fits with the description of narrow but strong interests: It would make sense for aspies(like me) to be interested in Asperger because of personal reasons. The strong interest combined with wanting to write detailed, precise and unambigous would then mean that any additions tend to be long and detailed. This combines to make the page bigger quickly. So we locked it by display of our own nature.
06:37:55 PM Nov 22nd 2016
The section on the specific area of interest should be edited to include the following somewhere: "These areas are generally "intellectual" (or more crassly, "nerdy") subjects, such as computers or biology, but it could be any sort of subject.
05:00:30 PM Sep 12th 2016
Please add this to a bullet point under "Speech issues":

  • Aspies do typically speak with a monotone, particularly younger or undiagnosed/untreated ones. More high functioning Aspies who learn to adapt to social cues, however, can train themselves to overcome this to a large degree. Interestingly, several psychologists who specialize in high functioning Aspies have noted that they can actually discern if some people are high functioning yet undiagnosed Aspies based purely on listening to their more or less normal-sounding speech. Such high-functioning Aspies learned to avoid a monotone voice intellectually, after years of refined practice, by adding in extra inflections and prosody to their speech. The giveaway is that this still isn't entirely "natural" speech, and they will overcompensate slightly, with very "animated" speech: a few too many inflections in the wrong place, too many punctuations for emphasis. Psychologists who work with high-functioning Aspies on a regular basis can actually start to recognize this "Aspie accent" of a sort, even in people so high-functioning that no one else would pick up on it in everyday conversation. By comparison, it's sort of the verbal equivalent of how some high-functioning Aspies train themselves to maintain eye contact with other people instead of avoiding the gaze of others...but then overcompensate by constantly keeping eye contact in a fixed stare.
10:29:15 PM Feb 14th 2017
I think that's a great idea, but to prevent people from getting ideas, I'd advise adding something like this: "You may think that you can recognize this 'accent' but if you are reading this post, you are probably NOT an expert. It's unadvisable to tell people they have Asperger, and you might be wrong just as well as right." May need some polishing, but I'm not a very good writer...
06:24:29 PM Jan 14th 2016
edited by spamdangled
Can the page please be edited so that it doesn't refer to Asperger as a Learning Disability?

This is a false claim. Autism and related conditions fall under the classification of "neurodevelopmental disability", which is quite separate from both Learning and Mental Health disorders (except where the Autistic condition is co-morbid with a learning disability, which is one of the defining conditions of low-functioning Autism).

Please see:

Ironically, it's the constant ascription of Autism-related conditions (and especially Asperger's) as a learning disability (and that's BEFORE you factor in the social stigma) that has led to such poor treatment and services for people with the condition (leading in the UK to this:, because they fall through the gaps in existing services.

Calling Asperger a learning disability is actually quite offensive to a great many people on the spectrum, because it's seen as dehumanizing and denigrating.
02:58:09 AM Jan 15th 2016
May want to ask here for input.
05:00:22 PM Jan 19th 2017
While we're making the page more useful in terms of actual information, some actual epidemiological data might be nice, since a lot of the informational resources online are advocacy sites that basically make up numbers.

e.g. it's not really useful to list "it's fake" as a myth and then not elaborate on the actual incidence, which is something like "less than 1 per 2000 people" according to Ophalim and "less than 1 in 1000 people" according to the US's NIH.

An actual number on what it means that it's vanishingly rare but not nonexistent would give some perspective.
02:54:26 PM Dec 4th 2015
This line:

"I understand, on a logical level, why people behave that way. I just don't see the point of it on a practical one."

should be potholed as "Subversion", or even "Inversion", seeing as it pretty much is the opposite or what the section talks about.
03:10:41 PM Dec 4th 2015
Also, most of the "representative quotes" have problems.

For instance, society has far more irrational issues than whatever it thinks of me (or us), and claiming not to have an accent isn't something only aspies do. Just about every allistic you'll meet feels that way about their own accent, that they don't have one while everyone else does.
02:04:03 AM Dec 5th 2015
Please do not use this discussion page for general ASD discussion. Take It to the Forums instead.
11:01:11 AM Jun 11th 2015
Under the list of movies that depict Aspergers and love, would there be room to add the documentary Aspergers in Love?
06:05:08 PM Oct 19th 2014
edited by
Alter Lack Of Imagination to:

Lack of Imagination: Related to No Sense Of Humour above, it is frequently reported that Aspies have little to no imagination, but this is verging on Critical Research Failure; there's a (fairly popular) theory that Aspies have excellent imaginations. What they lack (and probably what the reports in question mean by Aspies having no imagination) is Social Imagination; i.e., the ability to grasp that not everybody feels the same way. It requires "imagining" what another person is feeling, since you can't know for certain. To an Aspie, this is logical because you're not them, and it's rooted in their difficulty to recognize emotions in others.

What Aspies compensate with is an incredible Visual Imagination. Instead of socialising, an Aspie prefers to sit back and let the movie roll. Instead of having to share the toys in a group, they might imagine getting the toys out and having them coming to life in a way that physically playing with them can't produce. Movies too are a visual medium, and some Aspies like to sit back and play an entire movie in their heads, perhaps imagining themselves in a role. Obviously it's a solo activity.

If an Aspie takes to writing down what they imagine, expect them to paint an amazingly detailed picture of their world and characters as they strive to make their readers see what they see.
11:00:16 PM Feb 14th 2017
^ I agree wholeheartedly. Would like to add that I myself find it hard to write down because my 'inner worlds' tend to expand on all 3 spatial axies and the timeline in both directions simultaneously, so where do I start, and then when I have a starting point a lot of writing will actually be history to the actual characters.
05:23:19 PM Oct 19th 2014
Typos - a lot of times it's typoed as "Asperger's Syndrome". It's "Asperger Syndrome". It says so right on the page title. Can somebody fix those up?
06:47:34 PM Oct 30th 2014
Not sure that's a typo so much as an alternate spelling.
01:06:27 AM Oct 31st 2014
Both are acceptable terms for this thing.
12:01:02 PM Aug 29th 2014
Minor typo, but the lock means I can't fix it myself: "...define the person by what they see as a disease that h or she has." Someone needs to put the "e" in "he."
12:54:34 AM Aug 30th 2014
Filed a request here. For future reference, edits on locked pages are requested there.
11:50:10 AM Aug 16th 2014
I can't say how well this rings true for other Aspies, but I, personally, would string in notes about the sensory hallmarks of autism in general, as I and the small handful of Aspies I've read about exhibit these to some degree. In addition, I would tack on a note to Defines One's Personality myth, seeing as some, I've noticed, make a very conscious effort to go clear in the other direction for harmless-but-annoying behaviors (dominating a conversation, discussing interests, etc.), which may or may not begin to evaporate when under no pressure, which in turn could tie back into debunking the "everyone is the same" myth.
09:04:37 AM Jan 12th 2015
edited by sloth09
I was professionally diagnosed with Asperger's at a relatively late age (late 30s after seeking treatment for depresssion) and think that this section is just generally somewhat misleading. While it's true that AS doesn't define your entire identity in the sense that people with AS/HFA have different personalities and intelligence levels, comparing it to having red hair or a limp as the quote does is just absurd and even comparing it to dyslexia or alcoholism is very dubious. For a start those conditions (if it's appropriate to refer to having red hair as a "condition") can all be treated and overcome (except dyslexia, although the ways of managing that are somewhat easier to implement that those for managing AS).

AS and other AS Ds are the result of atypical brain development from as early as 4 weeks into foetal growth which continues into the early years of childhood and beyond (when people argue about the causes of AS Ds they are arguing about what causes this atypical development rather than the fact of it). This means we have hundreds or maybe thousands of neuro-chemical reactions going on at a vastly different intensity to that found in neurotypicals with very likely some reactions being entirely missing or novel when compared to neurotypicals (research, as they say, is on-going). That's why it's a pervasive developmental disorder (emphasis on pervasive). The brain is where your identity or personality or whatever you want to call it "lives" so to suggest that this radical change in the wiring and cognitive function has as little effect on identity as red hair or even alcoholism is wrong headed. The quote itself looks like something that someone with AS got from a CBT therapist. It's a bit of a truism among therapists that young people (which for these purposes means under 30) with AS will almost always ignore Occam's Razor and seek alternative explanations for behavioural quirks which can reasonably be explained by AS because they aren't ready to deal with the ramifications of a serious mental health problem that will be with them the rest of their life and limit the choices available to them compared to neurotypicals. Some therapists see this as harmless because it gives them a hook for CBT and makes it easier to help the patient manage their condition, others worry that it makes the ultimate reckoning worse.

To hopefully illustrate what I mean take adult sexual relationships as an example. Aspies have huge problems with these and many books (not all of them helpful) have been published discussing the issues. The problems range from things like fear of intimacy (which often manifests as being sex repulsed) to problems communicating sexual desire (the male AS partner will generally assume that a woman doesn't want to have sex with him unless she expressly says she does and a learned fear of misreading social cues will generally prevent the AS partner from initiating anything in case he's got it wrong and might commit a sexual assault, this continues even as the relationship develops and it's a common complaint of wives with AS husbands that he never shows any sexual interest in her. There has been a recent move for Aspies with these type of issues with sex (especially those relating fear of intimacy and sex repulsion but others as well who have decided sex is all too much bother) to declare that they are asexual. It's perfectly possible they are of course. However, it's an asexuality caused by the AS rather than the type of asexuality an asexual neurotypical will have. Functionally they might seem to give the same result but the mechanism the by which result has been arrived at (the "model" of asexuality if you will) is very different and this tends to lead to No True Scotsman style arguments and, ultimately, a schism between the Aspies and the neurotypicals.

The sad fact is that, unless you're lucky enough to have an exceptionally mild case, everything about you will be affected and defined by the AS and the limits it imposes on you whether you realise and accept it or not (which is NOT to say that everyone with AS is the same ). Looking back I realised it happened to me and I didn't even know I had it (although I knew something was wrong with me, I suspected one of the forms of schizophrenia for which AS was often mistaken although when I persuaded by parents to take me to a child psychiatrist she said I was fine, this was couple of decade prior to AS being an acknowledged diagnosis) for the vast majority of my life.

The page possibly should also mention the frighteningly high levels of depression and suicide among Aspies compared to neurotypicals (see for levels of suicidal ideation and Attwood "Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome" pages 140 to 142 for a discussion of depression rates, in reviewing the literature he says that about 1 in 3 will experience at least 1 episode of clincal depression in their life, other researchers have estimates as high as 65%).
02:38:48 PM Sep 3rd 2015
You say you were diagnosed with it late: In your 30s. In 1990, when I was 42, my youngest son, who was then ten, had tremendous difficulty socializing in school, so my wife and I took him to a psychiatrist. The shrink said that our son had Aspergers, and described the classic symptoms. My wife and I looked at each other, and said, almost in chorus, that he was describing me. It runs in my father's family: My father had it, his father probably had it, my youngest son has it, my twin brother has it, his daughter has it quite severely.

One effect it has had on me is that I have considerable difficulty in keeping a job — the longest I have ever worked in one place is five years. Yet I am a truly first-rate computer programmer. (Aspies tend to be either very good or very bad at mathematics — I'm one of the ones who is very good at it.) To go along with my difficulty in keeping a job, I positively dread going on job interviews, because I am so bad at things such as reading people — and now that I am in my 60s, age discrimination has made it far more difficult to find a job.

I can manage. I have gained the skills and experience to "fake it," more or less.

My real life-line has been my wife. We have been married for 42 years, and she has supported me throughout our time together. I literally could not get along without her. Most surprising of all, she loves me even when I am not at all lovable. I thank God daily for her.
01:38:28 AM Sep 4th 2015
Folks, this is not a forum for ASD discussion.
07:12:45 PM Jul 4th 2014
Should someone add a link to Green-Eyed Redhead in the appropriate part of this sentence: "Putting the person first, before the disorder, is important to many people who either see it as just another trait such as hair or eye color or don't want to define the person by what they see as a disease that h or she has."
09:26:36 AM Jul 12th 2014
You never see anyone get described as "person with green eyes", "a person with blue eyes", "someone who has red or brown hair"…
10:44:36 AM Jun 24th 2014
Excellent description of the Neuro Typical world. Do you realise how utterly mad it sounds? ;-)
06:09:37 PM Oct 29th 2013
Are the example quotes really necessary? They seem kinda generalized to me.
08:10:22 AM Jan 7th 2014
Well, sometimes we as Aspies want to explain our condition in such a way that people understand. Not all the cases are like that, but still, it's a general idea.
01:14:07 AM Jan 25th 2014
Yes, they are to us with Asperger's Syndrome
06:47:30 PM Mar 16th 2014
I dunno. I just worry that they might promote stereotypes about people with Asperger's.
10:16:54 PM Apr 7th 2013
edited by Storm
EDIT: Disregard this. Preferably delete it.
10:33:11 AM Mar 12th 2013
On the other hand, there are records of AS subjects who have reduced physical sensitivity, or at least show no outward signs of discomfort, including one boy who showed no sign of pain at all prior to diagnosis of a twisted testicle (normally a very painful condition).

sign of pain at all prior to diagnosis of a twisted testicle (normally a very painful condition).

twisted testicle

I almost vomited at this sentence.
08:06:09 AM Apr 4th 2015
What is noted is that we do not have the same responses as Neuro Typical individuals have. We can go either the "feels nothing" route or hypersensitivity route. Some of us are a mixed bag, being hypersensitive to SOME things while being unaffected by what would drive a Neuro Typical person from the room screaming.
12:57:30 AM Dec 3rd 2012
This page should be merged with High Functioning Autism (which should be renamed Autism Spectrum Disorders or something, but that's a separate issue) as Aspergers has been removed from the DSM. It would function more accurately as just a page on Autism as most legitimate sufferers will be diagnosed as Autistic and so Aspergers will be outdated and less helpful (acceptable as an alternative name for the page to use as a redirect though).

Also the characteristics of Aspergers need to be more narrowly defined as they definitely apply to me and i know full well i don't have that disorder (I was bullied as a kid and raised as an only child) and so it may give a poor impression that "Aspergers can be manipulated to apply to anyone" while i am sure the reality is that legitimate sufferers of the disorder have more specialized symptoms that will frequently be specific just to those with an Autism Disorder and not just anyone who might have been a nerdy loser (like i was) growing up
01:18:16 AM Jan 25th 2014
The DSM IV ***IS*** vague in the diagnostic criteria. Having Asperger traits does not mean that one has Aspergers. One must have multiple traits from several categories in order to get the DX. Also, there *is* a VERY strong Aspergers community out there, and doing that will push a good deal many Berserk Buttons.
05:39:39 AM Jun 1st 2014
Asperger is still in the ICD-10.

11:44:57 AM Jun 20th 2014
Better keep the way is now, at lest until de ICD-11 is released in 2017. This revision so far is doing something similar to the DSM-5, but since ICD-10 still valid and used for diagnosis doesn't make much sense combine asperger's to autism and create a single useful note yet.

About being more narrowly defined, as said by Loken, DSM-IV is vague, but maybe is necessary to put emphasis in the fact than this traits should be present since childhood.
07:21:08 PM Jun 28th 2012
Feel like the whole "difficulty lying" bit is kind of... generalized. I've been diagnosed, and I'm a compulsive liar.
04:36:56 PM Jul 11th 2012
Same. I also have AS, and lying comes very naturally to me.
08:35:15 AM Aug 25th 2012
12:19:24 PM Dec 7th 2012
10:34:43 AM Mar 12th 2013
Same here. I have a lot of practice lying to my mom since she yells a lot (something she was told to do when I was diagnosed with ADHD.) Now they think I have AS which is connected to ADHD in some way.
01:19:10 AM Jan 25th 2014
Lying is traumatic to me. I am terrible at it, and hate people who lie.
11:27:05 AM Jan 30th 2014
I have Asperger's Syndrome, and all of these ring true to me except for "difficulty lying".
06:03:07 AM Feb 7th 2014
Some people said it well, maybe without knowing it, but the thing is: an aspie CAN lie. White lies and real ones. But. First, he must learn to do it. This comes with time and when you go through a lot. And second, he still usually doesn't like to do it. But still. An aspie can lie, he must just learn to. It's "normal" to be able to learn to if you're old enough. After all, it is a logical thing if you understand the why and many other things. It's like reading body language: an aspie can do it, but it will be conscious analysis instead of automatic, and he will have to learn to do it.
05:17:34 PM Aug 10th 2014
Here is one of the main issues I have with Aspie characterisations: lying. It isn't that we cannot lie, it is that because we are very literal, we take everything that is said to us at face value; truth, lies, sarcasm, all of it. What it means when it comes from us is that while we are not good at lying in a pinch, we are good at making up a story or obscuring the truth, or even omitting it altogether.

Personally, I like people to tell me the truth at all times, as I prefer to tell others the truth as well. A 'treat others as you would want to be treated' kind of mindset.
12:47:54 AM Aug 11th 2014
Methinks that this discussion tab is not the ideal place for discussing autism. May I suggest this forum topic instead?
01:30:12 PM Oct 13th 2014
As for me, I find it very difficult to straight up lie to someone, unless I'm telling a joke, I however am quite capable of and quite enjoy properly wording what I say into deceptive truths. My basic philosophy when being asked to tell the truth is "Lie to you I did not. Just because you misinterpreted what I said does not make what I told you a lie and although what I said was true neither does it make it 100% accurate. It is your fault if you never bothered analyze what I said through different interpretations and meanings and think on their possible implications." Also doubles as the excuse I give when someone feels I lied to them.
06:21:04 PM Oct 19th 2014
edited by
I'm a terrible liar. Obviously, technically I can tell a mistruth. But when I do, it feels like I'm wearing a coat two sizes too big and it's pretty much transparent. Sometimes I can use double meanings so as to not hurt somebody's feelings, but that takes some thinking out.

I'm afraid one of my lines even now is "Do you want the truth, or the lie that makes you feel better?" On the plus side, that does tend to make people laugh.

If it's not going to hurt somebody's feelings, I just don't bother.
09:19:59 PM Jun 7th 2012
O_O Wow, I have AS and this articles defines me so well it's almost scary... :D Good work, men!
01:19:43 AM Jan 25th 2014
It is a good article, isn't it?
06:24:32 AM Oct 20th 2014
That is a condescending comment, isn't it?
01:04:06 AM May 31st 2012
edited by JonnyB
I strongly object to the recent addition to this page that states that a majority of Aspies are not religious and "do not understand" religion, and I feel it needs either removal or a strong rewrite. I have Aspergers, and I am very religious. (Or at least what people who do not believe in that sort of thing would consider being "religious", personally to me it's faith, it's spirituality), and have known others like me with Aspergers who were also spiritual or people of faith. And I have never seen any sort of study showing that this "majority" exists. I will however say that Aspies that are religious tend to approach religion in an entirely different way than do "normals"; they are more apt to seek God and their faith in a logical and rational fashion than through emotional or mystical means, as we tend to approach most everything in life.
01:18:00 PM Jun 1st 2012
Nevermind. I made a slight change and an addendum that I think suffices to mitigate the original perceived harshness of the OP's addition as well as shed more light on the perception of religious Aspies.
09:15:31 AM Apr 8th 2012
I wonder if the article is white-knighting it a bit re: Aspies never using their illness as an excuse or never ever being jerkasses. I've got AS and can certainly think of people who have used AS and ADHD and other diagnoses as excuses for Jerk Ass behaviour—the old "I have this disorder and you just don't understand why I flipped out, so piss off" line. It's not uncommon, that's all I'm saying. They might not even be thinking of it an excuse when they say it, but it might actually emerge from their own experience and shame at having a moment they recognise as an autistic flipout. I've certainly had autistic flipouts and have been so upset and depressed I've told people to piss off because I had AS and couldn't deal with the situation, in the most teenagery "I have this illness and you just don't get it, and I'm doomed to be a horrible person for the rest of my life because of my brain, augh, I hate everything" manner (well, I was clinically depressed at the time). Which could easily be seen as an excuse by some.

Basically, I am glad the page exists to dispel some of the common myths about Aspies, but at times it seems to be going too much in the other direction in that implies Aspies never exhibit certain cliches. I know Aspies who have no sense of humour whatsoever (and who would readily admit they just don't "get" humour and that they think it's useless), and some with an outrageous sense of humour, but the article says humourless Aspies don't exist. Same thing with elitist nerd Aspies (dear Lord, they exist, I certainly am one) and potentially dangerous "psycho" Aspies (I can think of several who have been sued for stalking, one of whom even used to be a friend of mine and had been concealing this fact for years, since she did it as a teenager to a famous singer and had, by her mid-twenties and partially because of the lawsuit, certainly grown out of that sort of behaviour. I've personally had a stalker diagnosed with AS who was genuinely out to kill me, and that just isn't funny). And on the less creepy side, there are plenty of Aspies who take pride in being superior elitists if they've grown up with high I Qs and are thoroughly jaded with the average-IQ mundanes around them. So what I'm trying to say here that despite what the article says, it doesn't mean there aren't mean or scary or difficult autistics out there. Just because we aren't all humourless, sociopaths, nerds and whatever stereotypes, it doesn't mean there isn't a correlation at all. It'd be more neutral to change some of the language in the article to reflect that (more "there are Aspies who..." instead of "all Aspies would..." and "no Aspie would..." statements).

Do I like the fact that the most visible Aspies in media are always the scary ones and that I'm characterised as an unemphatic and humourless and oversensitive? No. Does it mean we should just claim all the classic (or cliched, if you will) Aspie traits are exaggerations and no true Aspie ever exhibits any of them? No.
10:40:04 PM Apr 30th 2012
I've said 'I have this disorder and I think that's why either you just didn't understand what I meant or I just didn't understand what you meant' when I was younger and more naive towards the internet and found it responded to quite badly. Mostly because I was using it as an explanation, but the people I was talking to thought it was an excuse. While the same situation resolves itself fine if I drop the 'disorder' part and simply said that I thought there was a misunderstanding without mentioning Asperger's.

So yeah I think you're right on that account. And I've also, in the past, been accused of both stalking and intimidation. The stalking part was my fault. I thought I was simply 'taking an interest', but I took it way, way too far and I'm just glad that the person I did that to eventually decided on explaining to me what I was doing wrong and helping me to give me a good feel for personal boundaries. We're still good friends now and make it a point to get together at least once per month. The intimidation thing was more me not realizing that a seventeen year old girl in my college class when I was twenty three didn't appreciate me being direct about my disapproval of her slacking off on a group project, but then the college discovered I wasn't the first guy who she's reported after they disagreed with her (lack of) group behavior, so ultimately my having Asperger's didn't contribute much, beyond me not being aware I was giving her fodder to use against me.

And indeed one of the most important aspects I always address when I speak before a group is that we're not (all) precious little angels who never mean harm or take advantage of a situation... But most of us mean well.
01:33:23 AM May 31st 2012
I've also been accused of "stalking" because my social skills were so bad that I didn't realize I was being inappropriate. Fortunately a couple of young ladies in my social circle recognized me as someone with, if you'll pardon the expression, "special needs", and took it upon themselves to coach me a bit in social interaction skills. (No, not in that way, lol!)

I do think that most Aspies don't intentionally use their Aspergers Syndrome as an excuse, however sometimes I think it comes off that way because we generally have a hard time expressing ourselves. However, that's not to say that all Aspies are like that and that there aren't a few that are intentionally jerkasses and like hiding behind their Aspergers label.
07:25:58 PM Jun 28th 2012
There's also a difference between using it as an excuse and being unapologetic. Even if I'm told that something I did was rude, if I can't understand why, even after it is explained to me, I won't feel bad about it.
06:03:53 PM Jul 11th 2012
I think that it's still worth keeping SOME form of the "aspies will often apologize profusely once informed they are being offensive" statement, if only because it really is incredibly common. There was certainly a bit of white knighting going on in this page, and that section needed revision, but it's still important for people to know that we rarely actually mean to hurt them, and with that section gone I don't think it comes out quite as strongly.
06:07:06 AM Feb 7th 2014
The biggest problem is that you still have a WHOLE LOT of people saying this without even being aspies. Of course some aspies will be .... Well. Let's stay polite. And use this as an excuse. But we're talking about defining the majority here, since in the end all aspies are different. On the other end, someone using this as a pretext if he isn't an aspie or anything will only be saying this in order to get away with anything. It is meant to be a definition with broad strokes, otherwise it would be a lot longer.
09:18:07 AM Dec 27th 2011
edited by jatay3
"This also makes them some of the most sincere, genuine, and trustworthy people around... but perhaps not suited for intelligence work beyond decryption."

I am pretty sure I am an Aspie because I fit the profile almost word for word. As a side note, I have long been fascinated by STRATEGIC deception(The Man Who Never Was , etc) but I would be utterly incompetent at social deception and just couldn't stomach it. I could devise elaborate stings but I couldn't do the manipulation required of a field agent. And I certainly would have a hard time doing day-to-day deception. When people say "how are you" I tend to give a sort of grunt because I just can't say "I'm fine" if I'm not particularly fine even though for most people it means nothing.
03:33:40 PM Apr 2nd 2012
I find it a bit jarring that this part of the Useful Notes page says that; what's to say about me, who admittedly does lie and has a bad habit of doing so. Of course, being a habitual liar doesn't make me a convincing one (I've been told I have a very obvious tell, which tends to make me a Bad Liar), but still...
11:09:31 AM Dec 6th 2011

I don't understand. Why hasn't there been any given examples of the aspie menace in months? It's almost as if what everyone is saying is just a lie, that— NO, no, I will not accept this! For everyone to be saying that asspies use their made-up disease as a crutch to get out of trouble free, well it must be true, certainly not a completely unfounded strawman, right?
04:49:49 PM Nov 7th 2011
Weren't there examples on the page? What happened to them?
09:56:05 AM Sep 4th 2012
Seriously. We have to have a place to add Abed from Community.
10:47:28 AM Oct 20th 2011
I'm extremely upset on how this trope's main page is biased to the non asperger syndrome people. Isn't there a guide for AS people?
04:49:24 PM Nov 7th 2011
Um...please explain.
04:49:24 PM Nov 7th 2011
Um...please explain.
09:21:35 AM Dec 27th 2011
I never got that. I thought the page was sympathetic, noting advantages as well as disadvantages.
09:14:51 AM Jan 16th 2012
Okay, here's the detailed reason: Look at the start of the page saying "you will have run into someone claiming that s/he has this condition and were wondering what it meant. Well, we here at TV Tropes aim to fix you up with that info." and the end saying "It is fairly normal to encounter people...". They're saying it only for non-AS people. There's nothing in this page saying info DIRECTLY to the AS people.
02:17:15 AM Feb 22nd 2012
edited by Kajin
I honestly don't think the page needs to cater to people with Asperger Syndrome. All that really matters is that it is informative as far as I'm concerned.

Besides, the vast majority of people out there don't have AS. Working on that assumption, a majority of the people visiting this page won't have it either, though the traffic of people who actually do have AS might be higher than is usual due to our inherent interest in the subject matter. I say the context of the information is fine as it is.
01:18:05 AM May 31st 2012
I agree. The page was meant to be informative, and the people who need most to be informed are the "norms", not the Aspies. So obviously it addresses the average Joe. Personally, for the most part I think this is one of the most informative pages on the web and frequently point people to it.
10:48:04 PM Oct 27th 2012
I just discovered the page today, but after having read through it, I thought of referring people to the page, too. It's very well written, overall.
11:22:50 AM Jul 30th 2014
I also didn't feel left out here, it was indeed very well-described and many points match my own experience, though of course not all of them.
12:13:35 AM Oct 17th 2011
I wanted to ask about possibly adding a characteristic of Asperger's. Something a lot of people with it do is repeat things they've heard, over and over and over. Like, they'll watch a movie and repeat a conversation from that movie, or repeat jokes from a comedian.
02:35:15 PM Mar 4th 2012
Hi, tocp. Just about every geek I've ever known does that. One of the geeks I knew had Asperger's, but the other 100+ or so didn't.

I think there are a lot of mix-ups about Aspie characterics with geek characteristics or the characteristics of people who were bullied as children. Geeks are often people who were bullied as kids. Aspies usually get bullied as kids because they're different. So people notice that many Aspies have a characteristic in common and they attribute it to Asperger's, when in fact it's something that most geeks or most kids who were bullied have in common.
05:44:56 PM Aug 9th 2012
Well, repetitive behavior is actually a symptom...
07:29:20 AM May 2nd 2013
edited by
It is? It is? It is? It is? LOL! Sorry, couldn't resist.
12:55:56 AM Feb 18th 2014
You're not talking about echolalia, are you? That's more common with more non-verbal flavors of ASD. Aspergers (back when it was still DSM) was notable for early, prolific speech - hence the "little professor" moniker. Over-quoting movies or jokes for attempted humor is geek; attempting to use quotes from movies to communicate because you lack spontaneous speech is something else.
08:10:46 AM Apr 4th 2015
hecuba, it's called "Scripting". There is both social scripting and echolialial scripting.
11:26:42 AM Oct 6th 2011
edited by ExposeThemAll
@spaceswillberemoved1, so you want proof? Here you go, fool:

We are hard at work exposing the aspie menace. Your day in the sun is nearing an end.
11:08:14 AM Dec 6th 2011
edited by ExposeThemAll
07:14:39 PM Oct 1st 2011
Is anyone else bothered by the frequent use of beige prose whenever a first-person narrator is on the autism spectrum? Should it be mentioned that a person who speaks in very quick direct sentences doesn't necessarily think in that manner as well?
09:01:17 AM Feb 3rd 2012
Personally, I, having been diagnosed with AS, agree, i am much too cripplingly shy the majority of the time to use my ridiculous vocabulary, which, by the way i gained by reading to escape from all the bullies in my life. However, when in places i know are safe and around people i trust, or just online, i make full use of it in conversation just like i alwaus do din my mind.
11:24:49 PM Nov 21st 2012
Agreed. I also have AS, and have been writing since I could read and can have a pretty colourful vocabulary when I want (even though I pretty much talk like any other kid my age does, using "like" and "bro" a lot). Never read any books from the POV of someone else who has it (mainly because I'm not very big on novels in general), but I can sort of imagine it and it'd bug me a lot.
12:21:49 AM Aug 29th 2011
edited by ZenimaxShakespere
Anyone else concerned about this being used as a common go-to insult on any site that doesn't enforce manners?

It's like there's a backlash against aspies, and I honestly cannot understand why. Is it intelliphobia?

This is made manifest mostly by the completely unfounded assertion that there is a massive force of trolls who say "Excuse me, I have Asperger's so that makes it okay." which I HAVE NEVER SEEN EVEN ONE IN THE DECADES* I HAVE BEEN ONLINE. To those that say so: put up or SHUT UP. Cite source or SHUT UP.

  • The Internet has been around longer than you think.
04:56:15 PM Sep 12th 2011
It's as equally well founded as your own anecdotal evidence. A hell of a lot of people claim to have aspergers syndrome regardless of their actual mental health - or lack thereof - hence the irritation with how common it seems.

And bollocks about being 'intelliophobia'. Asperger's is not a super power that gives you amazing intelligence, nor does anyone rage at people who claim to have it for that reason.
11:25:39 AM Oct 6th 2011
edited by ExposeThemAll
@Acritdy I totally agree! How dare those assburgers and their filthy apologists complain about people saying bad crap about them, and how dare they and their dirty apologists NEEDLESSLY defend them. Just like how women have a bad rep because they complain about HYPOTHETICAL sexism, gay people have a bad rep because they complain about HYPOTHETICAL homophobia, and black people have a bad rep because they complain about HYPOTHETICAL racism. No cognitive dissonance there at all.
02:46:12 AM Feb 7th 2012
@Expose Them All- Care to give a link to just 1 person claiming to have AS, on any public forum, anywhere on the Internet, and using it as en excuse for bad behaviour? I've never seen it and I have been on the internet for a while. Please enlighten me.

About sexism- there is a very clear, obvious and measurable difference in the wages of males and females working in equivalent roles. Or you could look up the public school funding for state schools and compare that to the ratio of "black" people in the school's region (in the U.S. of course). As for this homophobia- "faggot", "fag", "poofter", "homo" are all used as insults, all refer to homosexuality, it's not a coincidence.

As a general thing aspie's like to "know" things, while most people seem content to just "know about" them. That extends to wanting other people to "know" instead of just "know about". So I want to "know" who are these people that are trolls and using it as an excuse to be a jerkass, just "knowing about" them existing is not enough. I also want that this page be a true reflection of AS so other people can "know" the real circumstances of AS, so unless this proof can be shown I think the trolls<=>AS part should be removed.
05:49:00 PM Aug 9th 2012
edited by
Asperger's is often thought to coincide with above-average intelligence, even with the tendency for IQ tests to evaluate ASD individuals poorly.

@Expose Them All, I've never seen anyone try to use it as an excuse for anything. I've seen it used to explain behavior, usually accompanied by an apology and a noticeable effort to fix the offending behavior, though.

Also, you're a troll.

EDITED: I realized that first line came out wrong, the first time. (Going on three years ago, I know).
12:12:53 AM Feb 6th 2013
"It's a documented fact that Asperger's tends to coincide with above average intelligence."

Turnabout is fair play. Can I see that documentation? And frankly, even if this is true, to equate anti-Aspie sentiment with intelliphobia is to implicitly say that high intelligence and Aspergers are the same thing, which is patently not true. It also just comes across as saying "you're just jealous because I'm totes a genius!"

And Expose Them All is clearly trolling, though, considering the subject matter, one would be forgiven for not realizing that.

As far as the question at hand, I think it's less a matter of people pretending to have AS to excuse their bad behavior, and more a matter of people assuming they have it because they are socially awkward and fancy themselves a misunderstood genius. I'm sure that they genuinely do think that they have AS, but without a diagnosis, it really is not "explaining" behavior at all. Until you have a diagnosis, everybody else has no choice but to assume that you don't have AS, and behavior is just...bad behavior. And I could, in fact, give an example of at least one person, on This Very Wiki, who thinks they have AS but are reluctant to be diagnosed. I would rather not have to go tracking down the exact post right at this moment.

And why are people reluctant to be sympathetic? Well, when somebody has said or done something that offends you, when they tell you, for all intents and purposes, that they couldn't help it, whether true or not, that's kind of a bitter pill. Also, when someone has been offended, they frankly do not care what the reason is. They don't want an explanation, they just want the apology. Explanations always sound like excuses, regardless of whether or not they are true, or whether or not they actually do excuse the offending behavior. They don't care why you offended them, they just want to know that you're sorry, and that it won't happen again. My advice is to leave off the explanation, unless they ask you point blank why you paid no heed to their feelings.
07:03:45 AM Aug 17th 2014
I want to tell them to stop taking everything so fucking personally. Not everyhing is about them.
08:18:25 AM Apr 4th 2015
To address a few things in this thread.

1)One of the requirements for an Asperger's Syndrome DX is at least average intelligence, which means the average and mean for Asperger's Syndrome will necessarily be above average.

2)Someone with Asperger's Syndrome may be unintentionally rude, and may bring up the Asperger's syndrome to explain that it WAS unintentional, but that is not the same as saying "I have Asperger's so deal with it". In fact, most, once the offense is explained will be horrified and attempt to make amends.

3)The anti-aspie sentiments expressed are very disturbing, phobic, and are the typical comments I would find from racists explaining their hatred for "those people"
08:50:15 AM Apr 4th 2015
Folks, this is not an autism forum.
03:51:08 AM Feb 15th 2011
edited by Athena13
As I said over on the Ambiguously Autistic discussion page, that whole thing about us being uncomfortable with lying is just plain wrong. It may manifest in some individuals, but it also manifests in some NT people too. Not to mention it just sort of makes us look like perfect little angels. I know some people want to see us that way, but it's just inaccurate. When showing accuracy, you have to take the bad with the good. We don't want to be whitewashed here, just shown as we are. And a lot of us are very gifted liars and very good at it.
04:17:52 AM Feb 18th 2011
edited by SquallLionheart
Deleted as possibly inappropriate.
08:43:35 AM Feb 21st 2011
edited by spaceswillberemoved1
Sorry if this is in the wrong spot, I just need to publicly respond to yet another "there are THOUZUNDS of evil assburgers who use asperger's as a license to be a typical Internet user" comment:

Their post: "Calling someone an autist is new, but autistic/ass-burger are long-standing insults ever since some kids decided 'I have Asperger's (citation needed), and so did some smart people (citation needed), I AM A GENIUS (forget citation, it's a delusion)? AND HAVE AN EXCUSE TO BE A FUCKWIT!'"

My response: So... where are these wannabeaspies? Could someone point them out (aka throwing Citation Needed right back in your face)? There HAS to be legions of them for the insult to be in such common vernacular (meaning one or two outlier examples are insufficient).

Or is it as I suspect: just a mostly-nonexistent BOOGIEMAN* used to uphold a bullcrap position, not unlike the munchkin, the black metal elitist, and the dorm-prowling rapist hiding in every bush.

Until you lippy jerkoffs — incapable of even a speck of creativity in your entire lives — come forth and prove me wrong, I'm going with my conclusion of you being insensitive PRICKS.

  • I tried very hard not to say 'strawman' even though it is factually accurate.
04:28:24 AM Feb 26th 2011
Uh, yeah, posts like this are why it has such a bad rep. It's the needless whiteknighting and over-aggressive defensive against perceieved, hypothetical slights.
11:48:51 AM Feb 27th 2011
Not to mention that it has the assumption that anyone claiming Asperger's to get out of being a dickwad must not actually have it, which is patently false. Plenty of people use legitimate diagnoses and actual research to back up their fuckwittery. It doesn't make them RIGHT, but it does happen, and I don't think we should ever doubt someone's diagnosis in such a way just because they call attention to the more unpleasant aspects of being an Aspie.

Also, you with just the ISP name, lying has always come naturally to me. Every professional I've seen since 1996 has agreed that I've got legit Asperger's. Sociopathy has never once entered into it, even before my diagnosis. Honestly, this website is the only one I've ever seen that tries to insist otherwise.
02:37:28 AM Jul 14th 2011
edited by Azkyroth
I think the idea is that for a lot of people it's mentally taxing and disconcerting in logistic terms (I have that experience, certainly), not that people on the spectrum don't feel the urge to.

By the way, the key distinction between Asperger's and Autism, as I understand it, is developed and often continuingly impaired verbal communication: people with Autism are more likely to need special therapies to learn to talk and interact with others at all, whereas people with Asperger's are likely to dive right into a conversation and kill it in a line or two.
03:29:12 AM Jul 14th 2011
edited by JonnyB
"... and kill it in a line or two." That made me laugh out loud. So true! I've learned to be a fairly social animal, but I can still kill a conversation cold if I'm not paying attention and let the inherent traits of wanting to dominate the convo with some lame thing that only I am interested in take over.

As for lying, I am an Aspie that has a really hard time with it. Although I can say that I've learned to be better at it over time (as with all things Aspie, the up-side to our syndrome is that we have the gifts necessary to learn to overcome most of our symptoms if we apply ourselves), it is still something that isn't natural to me; I generally tell the truth, even when it comes out blunt. (I've learned tact but I'm not good at it.) You're right, it is easier to tell the truth; lying takes effort (and a certain amount of skill). The downside of this is that I'm also fairly incapable of telling when someone is lying to ME, and tend to be overly trusting, and therefore often gullible.

Regarding the dickwards and trolls hiding under the cloak of Aspergers' Syndrome: Personally, I'm getting a bit tired of the media playing up Aspies as crazies, and getting equally tired of scriptkiddies and hackwits using Aspergers as an excuse for just plain poor behavior. As for me, I was instilled with a strong sense of moral behavior, a code of honor if you will, from an early age, and to me, my Aspergers merely intensified the need to hold to that code, as I didn't understand normal interpersonal interactions but this code I did understand. These trolls that use Aspergers as an excuse to be jerks disgust me; they have no honor.
12:19:37 AM Aug 29th 2011
"These trolls that use Aspergers as an excuse"

Give examples, as I've never seen one. In fact, it is my belief that it is little more than a boogeyman to discredit those who have asperger's by assigning them imaginary villains. It's really no different than the hate smear campaigns against gays by saying they're responsible for AIDS.
04:57:55 PM Sep 12th 2011
No, it's completely different. I don't recall any aspies being dragged out of their homes and killed over it, or lynched, or victimised in the streets. This kind of hyperbolic, self-gratifying comparison is precisely why claims of ASPERGERS! get a bad name.
07:07:51 PM Oct 1st 2011
"Victimized in the streets."

Maybe not in the streets, but in the halls? Have you ever been forced to be in a special education room? Do you know what kind of shitstorm that brings? Unfortunately, anyone who saw you entering the room, or getting off of a short bus, or heard that you did either of the two will harass you relentlessly.
11:23:48 AM Oct 6th 2011
edited by ExposeThemAll
@Acritdy I totally agree! How dare those assburgers and their filthy apologists complain about people saying bad crap about them, and how dare they and their dirty apologists NEEDLESSLY defend them. Just like how women have a bad rep because they complain about HYPOTHETICAL sexism, gay people have a bad rep because they complain about HYPOTHETICAL homophobia, and black people have a bad rep because they complain about HYPOTHETICAL racism. No cognitive dissonance there at all.
01:25:15 AM May 31st 2012
@Zenimax Shakespere I wasn't referring to people in this forum; I'm speaking of in the media, you hear of such and such a person committing a crime, then they say they have Aspergers as if somehow that makes what they did alright. I see it in the news all the time; recently it seems to have become a fad to do something odious and then say "Aspergers" to try to excuse it. Or the media will pin it on the person, as if that makes it ok, like saying "they're just retarded" used to be, now it's "they just have Aspergers."
09:54:01 AM Jan 13th 2015
@Jonny B: Whenever I've seen the media comment on the fact that a criminal has Asperger's they don't seem to be trying to use it as an excuse. To me at least it comes across as an attempt to sensationalise the condition and imply it has a link to criminal behaviour. For example there was a lot in the press about how the Virginia Tech killer had AS. I worry that the condition will become demonised in the same way as schizophrenia.
07:25:04 PM Jan 28th 2011

I'm a certified... Something for which there is no english word.

'Ervaringsdeskundige' in Dutch. Which translates literally into the singularly unhelpful 'Experience Expert' or contextually into the somewhat misleading 'Hands-On Expert'.

Essentially I'm someone with Asperger's Syndrome who's been to school to learn to verbalize my own personal experiences with the social handicap (and indeed it's a social, not a mental handicap) in combination with more theoretical knowledge on the subject in a way to make the matter more clear to people who lack that experience or advocate on behalf of those who do, but find it difficult to be heard. Basically I'm what happens when a progressive health-care system like that of the Netherlands gets enthusiastic about people like Temple Grandin.

Would anyone mind if I did some work on this page, even if it modifies some things other Aspies put in? Actually... I just realized I may be too... Socially adapted already just by asking that on an 'anyone can edit' wiki. So I'll just go ahead and edit a bit and try not to completely rewrite the page in my enthusiasm.

There's some things, especially with regards to Hans Asperger and the supposedly 'recent' classification as Asperger's as a form of Autism (It's not, by the way. I own a copy of the DSM-IV and I've read drafts of the DSM-5. Asperger's has always been listed as a form of Autism in the DSM-IV which introduced it. The DSM-5 just does away with the sub-classifications and acknowledges Autism as a 'Spectrum Disorder' with many, many non-defined grades). That change was important because in the field some professionals were basing the aid they were willing to offer (and some insurances or health plans the aid they were willing to subsidize) on which sub-classification of the ASD a patient had. And because the Autism Spectrum is a Spectrum this lead to a lot of people not being able to get the care they needed whilst at the same time getting therapies and council for things they didn't need help with.
07:30:20 PM Jan 28th 2011
Sure. If you can update it that would be great.
08:33:44 PM Jan 28th 2011
The things I've changed so far (and those being the only parts I feel comfortable editing without first proposing the change here):

"He called them "Little Professors" due to their ability to memorize facts. AS, as it is abbreviated, is on the autism spectrum. It shares many similarities with autism as a whole, but there a few differences. As of February 2010, Asperger's has been officially listed as a form of autism and not a separate disorder by the American Psychiatric Association."

I've changed this to put Hans into a bit more positive light (the man was pretty much the patron saint and founder of the modern they 'Autism rights' movement, by virtue of being one of the few respected men in his time willing to believe that people with Autism were capable of actually achieving something).

I've changed 'It shares many similarities with autism as a whole, but there a few differences.' (not enough, I now realize), because AS does not 'share many similarities with autism as a whole', is is Autism so saying it 'shares similarities' is as redundant as saying 'a word shares many similarities with a string of letters' and there are not 'a few differences', there are a few things that are distinct about it as a classification, to keep the 'word <-> letters' analogy it would be like saying there are differences between a 'word' and 'a string of letters' (which of course there aren't, 'words' are simply a form of 'strings of letters')

I've changed the part about the DSM to reflect that:

1. The change with regards to AS as a classification isn't official until the DSM-5 is actually finalized and published. Though unlikely, it may still change.

2. That Asperger's Syndrome has never NOT been considered a form of Autism and was never considered a separate disorder, only a classification.

I removed the mention of the APA. Though I wouldn't mind the mention being returned for clarity, I couldn't find a place to put it in without disrupting the flow of the sentence.
09:37:49 PM Jan 28th 2011
Starting to get too Wikipedia-like. Useful notes are meant to be useful for understanding how to treat the topic in a story. Stuff like pending DSM-5 entries is too granular. I'll do a little whittling on it.
05:33:07 AM Jan 29th 2011
I agree with a cutting it down a bit Eddie, but right now the page reads as if Asperger's is just the 'official' term for Autism (if you read between the line and get the wrong message).

Also no. The Main Useful Notes entry makes it clear that Useful Notes are meant to be useful for understanding how a topic works, not just in stories, but in 'reality' too. Mostly, I guess, because Biographies, Autobiographies, Documentaries and Encyclopedias use and have Tropes too. The whole DSM-5 part is important to know when you're comparing pre-February 2010 to post-February 2010 books about Autism (of which there are metric shitloads) since some writers who've noticed the declassification of Autism will stop using the term 'Asperger's Syndrome', while other writers are going to ignore it and keep talking about Asperger's.
07:16:02 AM Jan 29th 2011
edited by SquallLionheart
As I noted above, I'm autistic, with a few more add-ons on top, so although I definitely am within the spectrum, I'm most definitely not a good representative to go by, and autistic have very different personalityíes the same as everybody else, but do you think that my attempt at listing the symtoms from my experiences with other autistic and myself to be reasonably clarifying? Your apparently greater expertise would be greatly appreciated.
07:25:57 PM Jan 29th 2011
edited by Robrecht
Let me say first off that my expertise is in no way greater. I've had some training in verbalizing it for people who don't know what it's like to be me (i.e. everyone who isn't me), but there are millions of people who are much better experts on their own Autism than I am.

Any way, I disagree (not generally since we share views on politics, the Vorkosigan Saga and several other things, but for now what matters is that I disagree on this issue) with Eddy when it comes to whether or not this page should provide an in depth look into the Disorder. By all accounts it should, because there is no such thing as a 'cliff notes' version of Asperger's Syndrome or the Autism Spectrum. And I bring that up, because I feel that yes, your input is clarifying. Though I do feel you might, on the whole, be a bit too bleak on the prospects.

Suicide for instance isn't more likely in kids with Autism/Asperger's for no reason than that they're watched more closely. However statistics do show children and adults with Autism have more 'suicidal tendencies'. This is because tests on the subject are dumb not direct and people with Autism are honest. When a test asks 'Have you thought seriously about suicide?' every Autist in the world will answer 'yes' unless they realize that what the question is really asking is 'do you plan and want to commit suicide'. Likewise such a test does not take into account that if you get a question about suicide in a test, you will be thinking about suicide, so if the test asks 'have you been thinking about suicide in the last week' the answer is also always 'yes'. So yeah. Skewed results, not as bleak as it seems.

Any way, I'll make it a personal project to improvify the page over the next month or so, starting with combining the current first and fourth traits ('Delays in social interaction' and 'lack of social empathy') into a single trait, since both stem from the same source and are basically the same thing (and I in no way suggest this as the title for the trait): Lack of 'aping'. Essentially the fact that Autists, Aspies included, learn the meaning of non-verbal communication cognitively (by thinking 'This man is doing something with his face, which I have learned is called 'a frown'. What does this mean? Last time he made this face he said he was angry, but the time before that he said he was confused. When he was angry, his voice was loud. His voice now is not loud. This man is confused. Why is he confused?') rather than 'subconsciously' ('Ah, that man didn't understand what I just said.'). Now to find a way to formulate that so it doesn't make us sound... Well... Stupid.

I am also going to add Autism vs. Asperger's i.e. the fact that some Aspies don't (want people to) think they're Autistic and why back in because quite simply it's a useful note on Asperger's. Though the bit about the DSM doesn't need to be part of that.
12:46:23 AM Jan 30th 2011
edited by SquallLionheart
Deleted as possibly inappropriate.
04:43:03 PM Jan 30th 2011
I know that this is a comment more suited for Troper Tales, but, there isn't one for here, so I'm putting this here...

Whoever made this, thank you, thank you so much. As an Aspie, I often have difficulty describing what it's really like to people who ask me about it. And... I'm really glad that I can direct them somewhere and say "Yes, this is what it's like, these are what I am like."

Thank you again...
10:15:44 AM Jan 31st 2011
edited by SquallLionheart
Deleted as possibly inappropriate.
01:26:45 AM May 31st 2012
There's starting to be some opinion creep in the article, I think it needs to be overviewed in places.
05:41:57 AM Feb 1st 2014
edited by Nigel
One thing I would add is that I am constantly asking myself in social situations, "Am I doing this right?" This unending self-examination is quite tiring and provokes a continual low-level anxiety. So all too often, it is simply easier to avoid socializing. For the last decade, I have had, quite literally, no social life outside of my family.
04:25:30 AM Dec 31st 2010
Am I the only one who thinks the page quote is incredibly cringe-inducing? Oh, we're not very good at social skills but really really smart! doesn't seem to explain anything, or summarise the article in any way.
10:10:19 AM Dec 31st 2010
No, you're not alone about it. It plays into misconceptions. In fact, I think certain partso f the page itself plays into misconceptions, which is why I made my own attempt with the list, but again I'm supposed to be "fully" autistic, so I'm not sure how much it differs.
01:19:28 PM Mar 9th 2011
Would anyone object if I removed the quote? The more I see it the more it gets on my tits. I still don't see how it's adding anything informative to the page.
05:49:24 AM Dec 30th 2010
Wow, I've been wondering why I hate schadenfreude so much. Any other aspies learn something new about themselves from this page?
02:10:55 PM Dec 30th 2010
Sorry if I'm missing something, but could you explain why you having AS explains you disliking schadenfreude?
10:12:58 AM Dec 31st 2010
edited by RainbowTiger
High empathy; low filters; naturally honest and sincere; take things literally; extremely obsessive-compulsive; bombarded with constant intense hatred, distortions, sneer, ridicule that somehow assume that you actually do process and function in the same manner regular people do; anal-retentive and seeing almost everything in patterns including inconsistencies, insincerity, and full implications of moral systems and ideology; recurrently given mistreatment on a level that in sum total would actually be classified as torture by the Geneva convention, and so onwards...

It's not a good mixture combo, and in many cases "growing thicker skin, and trying not to take things seriously" is already strainingly pushed as far as it can get, but there is a lot of attempted false cheer in the face of overwhelming bigotry going on, and there are apparently networks that attempt to build up systems for filtering the constant onslaught.

Of course, it would certainly have saved me an awful lot of time and effort to have had the information at hand from the start, so if the parents are attentive early, young autistic have the opportunity to get much better training to accommodate to it from the start.
03:54:30 AM Feb 15th 2011
Really? Having bigotry piled on me at an early age made me LOVE schadenfreude. Empathy be damned.
04:55:32 AM Feb 18th 2011
edited by SquallLionheart
I'm the opposite. The more people have bombarded me with unprovoked and distorted hatred and bigotry, the more I realise the necessity of the opposite; that torture and ideological sadism isn't the answer at all and won't help anybody, that all we have is each other, and our common focus should be our fight against nature, not each other.

At the same time true evil, not as the people infected, but as what it conceptually means must be exposed and defined to stop idealising and encouraging it (no, not by torturing it, that won't give any healing to yourself) and rather start breaking away from it. Of course instinctive lashout self-defense is far more understandable, and very far from true evil, you need systematic ideological sadism for that, but it should still preferably be avoided.
02:35:36 AM Jul 14th 2011
I haven't learned anything new per se, but it's helped clarify and distill some things, vindicate others (I KNEW the fact that my narrow focus shifts over time wasn't a barrier to being "real" Asperger's when all the other symptoms are there in spades except to the extent I've learned to cope by trial and error)! I think the page is incredibly informative for people who aren't familiar with it, or worse, think they are...
07:04:43 AM Aug 3rd 2011
This page helped me understand my boyfriend better actually. It puts a lot of stuff into some kind of context, and makes me feel slightly less neurotic about a crapton of stuff. Plus I couldn't help but chuckle at the notion that the more you hang around someone with Aspergers, you may start taking on some of their traits, because I swear it's slowly happening to me. Our reactions and discussions about the recent shootings in Norway would get us strange looks and would be frowned upon as an inappropriate response.
12:13:29 AM Oct 31st 2010
Isn't the schizoid personality disorder the personality disorder that most resembles aspergers syndrome, instead of the antisocial personality disorder? I've also read that narcissim and aspergers syndrome are often misdiagnosed as each other.
08:01:41 AM Oct 31st 2010
edited by RainbowTiger
...Narcissism isn't a disability. I don't see how any professional doctor could get them confused. Anyway, it's also generally not about disliking interacting with people/being antisocial as such, as most autistic want experiences and to take part in the world, it's about not being able to connect in the head how to initiate or structure social contacts, and also extreme (but usually not shown in full) awkwardness/tension and mental exhaustion when having to fixate on someone else for prolonged periods. Greater additional problems can arise from unbelievably inefficient treatment approaches and overmedication of medicines developed for neurotypical brains, but isn't a fundamental definition as such.

Still, I was classified as autistic not as Aspergers, even before it merged into the main diagnosis this year (effectively making Aspergers an outdated term to use for the page title btw).
05:37:15 PM Oct 31st 2010
edited by jate
So would switching the page title to autism be better?

I meant narcissisitic personality disorder. Here is the page I read about the connection between npd and aspergers syndrome. Aspergers syndrome is also mentioned on wikipedia, in the differential diagnosis section for schizoid personality disorder. Though now that I think about it the avoidant personality disorder probably has more in common than the schizoid.
03:38:40 AM Nov 1st 2010
edited by SquallLionheart
Well, new information is appreciated, although the very limited text available on the linked page the author may or may not do a couple of downright dangerous "outsider looking in" assumptions, as the blurb text doesn't deal with that autism has plenty of severe diagnosis criteria beyond the social ones, and different autistic, who very much did have extremely visible multiple general dysfunctions since near-infancy, have very different personalities beyond the diagnosis, and ways of dealing with the condition.

Still, the author likely goes into better specifics inside the book, and might very well have a point about some misdiagnoses due to some thin surface layer overlap in this area, but things are not nearly as convenient and trivial as the book summary writer makes them.
05:29:36 PM Nov 1st 2010
There already is a seperate page for high-functioning autism. The last time I looked at it, the page pretty much said most autistic people have high functioning autism and that the category was only made to help psychiatrists with the psychiatrist, parent, child relationship.
09:24:41 PM Jun 1st 2011
"..Narcissism isn't a disability. Autism is more like fifty disabilities packed into one. I don't see how any professional doctor could get them confused."

The vast majority of my peers vocally assumed that my vocabulary, grades, and tendency to violate social norms reflected nothing except an oversized ego, and pretty much every child psychiatrist I ever saw had to, effectively, be dragged kicking and screaming away from the assumption that my being bullied was because I was "just a brat." Both narcissists and people on the spectrum tend to behave in ways that others find offensive, and many people on the spectrum are intellectually or artistically gifted and unapologetic about it, which an unreasonably unsympathetic listener could easily mistake for self-aggrandizement. I can see why a person with an arrogant disregard for what's actually going on in the minds of sufficiently "other" others wouldn't be interested in drawing this distinction.
03:55:45 PM Sep 19th 2010
Do you think it would be appropiate to set up a Troper Tales page for this?
08:02:44 AM Sep 20th 2010
edited by SquallLionheart
Deleted as possibly inappropriate.
08:16:51 AM Oct 6th 2010
Chris dude, a simple yes or no would have done.
08:20:45 AM Oct 6th 2010
No way. An in-depth examination of a disorder is just nowhere near what we are here for. All that sounds like it might be useful in a place where people are looking for that sort of thing. Just not here.
10:51:33 AM Apr 25th 2011
Maby instead we could have a link to Wrong Planet somewhere on the page, so people can tell their tales there.
02:33:09 AM Jul 14th 2011
Huh. Well, whether it's what you're here for or not, the page as it stands now is pretty much THE best "not just a clinical note sheet" description of the actual experience of being on the spectrum I've ever encountered. Keep it, it's wonderful. >.>
07:01:23 AM Sep 10th 2010
edited by SquallLionheart
Deleted by the author as inappropriate.
12:11:21 AM Oct 4th 2010
just feel like Not Good with People could be added to the "Social Issues" point
03:56:17 AM Feb 15th 2011
Why do you list emotional things under sensory? Those are very different things, as emotions aren't one of the five senses.
04:29:15 AM Feb 18th 2011
It's about the way the brain processes and emotionally reacts to the stimuli, not "super-senses", hence emotional.
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