Dr. Gonzo
So...why are the first two folders in "Background" empty? Are there plans to fill them in? If not, it seems like they can be removed, kinda pointless to have placeholders for something that's never going to be there.
I don't know where I'm going, but damned if I won't have fun getting there!
What is the point of such a lengthy description? If people want to read the facts about the Arab-Israeli conflict, they go to Wikipedia. We're supposed to describe how it appears in fiction.
Writing about such an incredibly controversial topic in a wiki without sources is a catastrophically bad idea. It's basically asking for a flame war. We should start using sources then. But what's the point? Wikipedia is already doing that.
I think TV Tropes should stick to a brief, non-controversial summary and listing the appearances of the conflict in fiction.
How did the novel and movie Exodus not get mentioned in the section about mediums? That's a HUGE ommision. I added them.
Hide / Show Replies
Congrats, and glad to hear someone else is interested in keeping this a Trope page rather than just a history book slapped next to a trope page.
If there's any way we can help each other beyond that, don't hesitate to ask.
Regards!
The Final ECW Champion
I think the fact
that most of the Arab world authorities are not particularly concerned with violence in the region has not been stated boldly enough on the page.
"Next to the Jews, we hate Palestinians the most." There is current a Pan Arabist fervor sweeping through the world and the pan Arabists under the Sharia would rather see both groups wiped out and are not particularly welcoming to Palestinians. The Jews are a bigger problem for them but once the Iraeli problem has been dealt with the Palestinians will not get treated much better. Ask the Persians, Copts, Kurds, Blacks from Egypt, blacks in Sudan, Blacks of Yemen, Black Africans in general, Europeans, Gypsies, Asians, Pakistanis, Lebanese, Assyrians, Berbers or any other non Arabs in the area if you do not believe it.
There is something deeply wrong, even Marsh Arabs and Sudanese Arabs are somehow not "Arab enough".
I may have to restate that, an Israeli-Palestinian peace would probably be the best thing to counter this madness and the supremacists at some level know it and continue to fuel fire as that peace would undermine their goals of removing non Arab, non Muslim identities. It is a microcosm for a much bigger and more important issue not enough people are realizing the scope of. But I am not sure how to go about emphasizing this point in the article without getting a lot of tropers all pissy, which I seem to be good at doing but it still seems like this article does millions of voices, Muslim or not, a disservice.
Edited by Cider Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack Hide / Show Replies
No offense, but those are some of the worst sources for anything I have ever seen. They're either Islamophobic, ultra-nationalist or racist cesspools and literature that are no better than the 'evil arabs' you've described in your post.
Edited by 182.185.214.172
Uh, two months late I think.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
@Kotrag
As someone who has actually visited a few of those sites (and has actually cut ties with plenty of people and sites for being what I believe to be racist or Islamophobic), that isn't a very good counter.
"No offense, but those are some of the worst sources for anything I have ever seen. They're either Islamophobic, ultra-nationalist or racist cesspools and literature that are no better than the 'evil arabs' you've described in your post. "
Firstly, as someone who has actually read some of those sources and primary material by people who can safely be considered "evil Arabs" (note: not all Arabs or even all pro-Palestinians by a long shot, but the deep enders), I'm skeptical of the last bit. But that's not as important.
First thing I'd as is do you have any proof that they are as you say?
And more importantly: *where and how are they wrong*?
I'd probably say the latter is more important than the former; actual evidence is still actual evidence, even if it was something from trash like Stormfront or Al Qaeda's newsletter. Which is why the main issue I would have citing either would be the quality of their claims (which granted are usually not great, but that's the fault of the claims themselves, but of the people making them).
This is especially important because a lot of it does jive with the news from more reliable sources (like Memri and primary documents), and Arab anti-Palestinian sentiment has been very powerful throughout this entire sorry mess (just look at Jordan and the Sinai). So that does make me question.
Again, I'm not meaning to put it down or say those sources in particular are wonderful. Just that I've done a fairly in-depth look over them and that they don't seem to be English version equivalents of-say- Hamas's letters. And I do think that the discrimination the Palestinian Arabs have suffered from their fellow Arabs is worth including in this Useful Notes article.
Regards!
Edited by 75.36.162.105
Hey guys, I think the "Anyone with a brain can see it isn't going to end any time soon, and when it does it'll probably end very messily" comment crosses the line into Dude, Not Funny!. I know that TV Tropes is supposed to keep things light, but using "Nuke Em" for a real world situation is just kind of callous, whatever your politics. Besides which, it's pessimistic in the extreme to assume that utter annihilation of one or both parties (or at least a huge and bloody conflict significantly wounding one or both parties) is the only way Israel and the Arab world are ever going to coexist.
And for that matter, I'm not sure we really ought to make political predictions on this site, especially ones involving massive loss of life.
Hide / Show Replies
I think we should just cut this down to a short extremely neutral description, then immediately go to examples.
Lost in Space
Moving this page to UsefulNotes.Arab Israeli Conflict, like all other similar articles. It's not a trope.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
First, a few nitpicks:
Remove parentheses around "headed by Yasser Arafat." Replace with commas.
The bullet point "The Siege of Gaza" should be upgraded to solid black and moved down below the paragraph that ends with Hamas and Fatah fighting each other. The paragraph immediately following it (about the air strikes) ought to be added to the "Siege of Gaza" section as a subpoint. It should also mention that the business in January '09 wasn't just airstrikes but a proper invasion.
"Civil War" in the phrase "Lebanese civil war" ought to be capitalized.
"(Which is pretty extraordinary...)." ought to be "..., which is pretty extraordinary...."
Information additions:
The Arabs call the Six Day War An-Naksa, "The Setback."
The Arabs call the Yom Kippur War the October War.
Feel like this should be referenced somewhere. Not everyone will like it, so do with or without it what you will. https://youtu.be/L0Zb9iUi0JM?feature=shared
Sends me into hyperspace, when I see her pretty face…