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alcockell
topic
12:22:03 PM Oct 14th 2012
I'd suggest that Large Ham is added for Ruth Madoc's Fruma Sarah.

Kilyle
topic
11:55:35 AM Dec 15th 2011
edited by Kilyle
I'll say the same thing here that I said over on Troubled Sympathetic Bigot: Nothing that Tevye does, up to and including disowning his own daughter, counts as a Moral Event Horizon, and it should not be the trope potholed in the description for one of the example tropes. Even if Tevye didn't give that final concession, he still wouldn't have become an irredeemable monster, not by any stretch.

It's not like he tried to kill her; he just disowned her. And yeah, it's a big deal, it's heart-rending and dramatic, but it's not the act of a monster; it's the act of a father exercising a sort of tough love. And it's well built up in the story, as him actually trying to change with the times, and ultimately finding a line he cannot cross. Misguided or not, nothing here is anything like a Moral Event Horizon.

If you think about it, from his point of view, the girl was making the decision to spit in the face of God over her choice of husband. And then she was asking him to ask/tell God to bless her in spite of that? There's plenty of sympathy on his side of the line. Consider a non-religious version: "Hey, Dad, I'm planning to marry this drug dealer slash junkie, and by the way, in total disregard for our culture heritage, I'm giving you absolutely no say in this decision; you want to give me away at the wedding?"
forlaughs
08:25:38 PM Feb 16th 2012
Perhaps even more importantly, its implied (outright stated?) that she converted for this man... Honestly he shouldn't be viewed as a bigot simply because he still manages to make peace at the end: Its a pretty big deal to totally reject your family and culture.
zaychik
10:58:39 AM Mar 6th 2012
edited by zaychik
Even now, to have one child leave the faith is one of the greatest dishonors an Orthodox family can bear and it absolutely obliterates the younger siblings chances of finding good husbands. In his mind she's contributing to the extermination of her people. She's scratching her name out of the Sefer Hachaim (G-d's book of the righteous), dooming herself and her children to hell (sort of) Not to mention she's choosing to ID with people who hate them, who set fire to his eldest daughter's wedding and drove them out of their homes. All things considered, Tevye's actions were mild compared to the devastation he felt.
Nigel
10:37:45 AM Dec 26th 2013
My non-practicing Jewish mother married a gentile. Her Orthodox cousin cut her off entirely. The Orthodox cousin's mother did not, because the family (which lived in Bohemia and Austria) had been very hard hit by the Nazis, and my great-aunt did not want to lose anyone else.
sevenyearoldbed
topic
07:26:02 PM Jun 28th 2011
As a Jew, I was very offended by the part in the intro that the Rabbi said that the blessing for the Czar is that he should keep away. In truth, there is a blessing for Royalty! A nice one at that! The way that they portrayed that made even me not like him! Basically, they portrayed the Rabbi as being a Bigoted fool. :(
forlaughs
08:23:51 PM Feb 16th 2012
Heh... I'm Jewish too, but I liked that. Shows we have a sense of humor, I think. To each his own, of course, but I don't think they made the Rabbi looked foolish, I think they made him look quick on his feet (no one would want to bless the Czar, the unseen Big Bad, in this musical, so the question wasn't really about whether there was a blessing or not. The questioner was teasing the Rabbi, who gave back).
lordferrok
02:59:14 PM Apr 5th 2013
I agree with the above comment, along with the fact that at the time, the Czar was becoming very unpopular, and the Rabbi's response shows this.
Nigel
10:34:45 AM Dec 26th 2013
I also agree with forlaugh's comment. Besides, "May G-d bless and keep the Tsar ... far away from us" is a very old Jewish joke. And I wouldn't be surprised if the 19th century and earlier Russian goyim thought it funny as well.
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