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MetaFour
moderator
topic
09:32:56 PM Mar 13th 2013
When I was gathering examples for Out of the Frying Pan in ykttw, someone said it happened a lot in Dresden Files but wouldn't give me any specific details. So I used what they said to write up a vague example. More details or corrections would be appreciated.
SharleeD
topic
03:07:07 PM Apr 12th 2012
Is "Vader syndrome", as Harry defines it in Dead Beat when the Wardens recruit him to boost morale, already a trope? Because if not, we should create one and give TDF Trope Namer status.
LucyZephyr
topic
06:36:32 PM Apr 20th 2011
edited by LucyZephyr
double post
JBK405
topic
06:31:53 PM Apr 20th 2011
edited by JBK405
Hey Lucy Zephyr, I'd be happy to discuss the Rape as Drama entry.

Really, there's nothing there to heavily imply that Harry or Justine was raped. Yes, Harry talks about how horrible the experience was, about how it was physically and emotionally unpleasant, and how it was monstrous and done by monsters, but nothing sexually specific. Even without getting into random and bizarre theories I can think of plenty of tortures that can be done that would match all his exposition without being rape. Rape would certainly fit as well, and I think it would be just like the Red Court to brutalize him like that and I'm not saying it wasn't rape, just that nothing there says it was rape, and we can't put our own theories onto the article without some kind of support.
LucyZephyr
06:38:07 PM Apr 20th 2011
edited by LucyZephyr
Here's my argument, copied from the comment I made then removed;

RE: Rape as Drama

  • Rape as Drama: In Grave Peril, it is deeply implied that Harry (and likely Justine) was gangraped by Bianca's Red Court. Harry being, well, Harry, he never speaks about what happened to him explicitly, but several books later still mentions having nightmares about it.

What about this phrasing isn't working for you? I am acknowledging that some may not read it that way, but as someone involved with the fandom I know many people consider this something that happened that Harry doesn't talk about because of his issues with consent in the past. There are many moments where Harry is not quite an Unreliable Narrator, but he isn't a 100% truthful one either.

To refresh memory, this is the pertinent section of Grave Peril:

"I was driven down, carried, tossed about, everything torn from me, Bob disappearing without a sound. They pressed me down while I struggled and screamed, all useless, my mind too full of terror to focus, to defend myself.

And there, in the dark, they tore my clothes from me. I felt Bianca press her naked flesh to me, a hideous dream-body that unraveled into a nightmare. ... And their tongues. Soft, intimate, warm, moist. Pleasure that struck me like hammers while I tried to scream against it. Chemical pleasure, animal sensation, heartless and cold, uncaring to my horror, revulsion, despair."

Emphasis mine.

ETA: Also, Harry reaction immediately after is "humiliation". Repulsion and humiliation don't point toward brutalization, but rape.
JBK405
07:06:04 PM Apr 20th 2011
You know, I think I'm mis-remembering the event, because I don't recall it being quite that explicit. I recalled it as being a lot more vague, where it really could have been interpreted as any of a hundred different torturous affairs. I'll check later, but if it is that blatant then yeah, objection withdrawn.
LucyZephyr
07:10:08 PM Apr 20th 2011
Yay! Thank you. I feel very strongly about this because I have serious Deep Thinky Thoughts about Harry's history of non-consent across the books. I'm sorry if I seemed rude in any way whilst arguing this.

I'll add the trope back in now.
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