Super Weight Mythology And Religion Discussion

Collapse/Expand Topics
 

KingZeal
Topic
07:00:35 AM Nov 4th 2015
I removed the Classic Mythology listings until a few things can get ironed out.

  1. Being a Protogenoi has nothing to do with power. Chaos may be the first entity, but that means literally nothing. Chaos cannot fight against its destiny, purpose or fate more than any other being in the mythology, which is literally what it would take to be more powerful than Ananke. Who existed first has NOTHING to do with power in this case.
  2. Being beaten by Typhon once does not discredit Zeus's power. Zeus reigned because he was the most powerful of the gods—in some myths, more powerful than ALL of them combined. So much so that one interpretation of his battle with Typhon specifically has an angry Hera pray for a being that can defeat Zeus in combat. Zeus was so much more powerful than Typhon that when Typhon tried to use Zeus's thunderbolts, he is described as "a novice" and all of their power was lost to him. Even besides that, after Zeus recovered from that battle, he defeated Typhon soundly.
082122712641
07:23:40 AM Nov 4th 2015
Let's do this quickly, shall we? 1. You ae exactly right. Protogenoi has nothing to do with power. Let's see what Ananke really represents: inevitability. Destiny. Fate. She represent changes that even gods can't change. That doesn't necessarily mean she could cause change, even if she wanted to. 2. Zeus has never demonstrated anything that fits a Type 6. Indeed, he is stronger than all other gods combined..but when you remember that gods are barely at Type 5 anyway (the only things that keep them at Type 5 are their Complete Immortality and ability to inflict curses to mortals, which had no effect at other immortals). The moment the latter is stripped, what happens? All of them ran away in fear against another immortal. Typhon. To drive the point home, Zeus fears Nyx, a simple Protogenoi of Night. A Lthough indeed, Zeus is more than happy to mess with Gaea, but that's because Zeus knew she is a lazy bum that prefers to spawn lesser abominations than to do jobs that she herself can probably finish with just a flick of finger.
082122712641
07:25:58 AM Nov 4th 2015
Oh, and I do remember putting (if it's a deity) at Khaos. If it's not, well...
KingZeal
07:48:18 AM Nov 4th 2015
  1. I don't see what that has to do with anything. Your write-up for Type 7 casts into doubt whether Khaos is even a deity. How much direct control over things the character has is irrelevant. The requirement for Type 7 is merely that a character be undefeatable by any known means, and that is Ananke in a nutshell.
  2. We do not list characters by what happens when they are at their weakest unless that weakness is commonly recurring. At the very least the three kings (Zeus, Hades, Poseidon) all have dominion over a specific fabric of the earth (sky, water and underworld). Zeus rules ALL skies, Poseidon ALL seas, and Hades ALL underworld. However, in Classic Mythology, the world was a stacked tier of multiple realms, with the Heavens basically each being their own world. Zeus, however, had the final authority of all three if it became necessary. Further, the Greeks believed that the heavens and the sky (they had no concept of the vastness of outer space yet) were one and the same. Thus, Zeus pretty much rules ALL KNOWN REALITY according to the Greeks.
  3. Zeus fears Nyx because she is the embodiment of all darkness. Night, death, and entropy. The fact that Zeus feared her means nothing, because nothing became of it either way; he feared a LOT of characters. Being a Type 6 doesn't disqualify you from having fear, and it is also irrelevant to whether or not you can be defeated.
082122712641
07:59:56 AM Nov 4th 2015
In case you want a neater explanation, check out The Other Wiki or Classical Mythology. To sum up my argument, the reason why Khaos is the Type 7 and not Ananke, is because Khaos itself is known as the Arche (roughly means: beginning, origin, first cause/power, sovereignty, domination, ultimate underlying substance, and ultimate undemonstrable principle). As such, Khaos is the Arche of Greek Myth, THE Type 7 of Greek Myth. About Zeus, perhaps you are right. Because a few moments ago, I read about a version of the story where Zeus asked the Sisters of Fate (or Ananke, it's unclear which), to alter fate. That alone puts him on a Type 6. Sorry to waste your time.
082122712641
08:19:47 AM Nov 4th 2015
Of course, it's all moot point if Khaos isn't an entity. That would mean this myth have no Type 7, like Celtic Myth. Since all concepts are born from Khaos: if Khaos isn't a Type 7, then nothing born from it is, let alone Ananke who is an aspect of Chronos (I said it earlier...Ananke is Chronos' daughter, in most version of the myth)
KingZeal
08:27:04 AM Nov 4th 2015
I've been checking The Other Wiki this whole time. I can't find anywhere that it states that the Khaos is sovereign, in use of the term as we understand it today. The Classical Mythology page is useful here, but not a definitive authority.

At best, the other wiki describes Khaos as a substance that the rest of the universe is built upon. That doesn't mean Khaos is all-powerful. It means that Khaos is (as you said) an underlying reality that everything else is formed from; that makes Khaos the equivalent of, say, Eternity or Infinity in the Marvel Universe, who are both listed as Type 6 on that respective page since they are, essentially, the fabric of everything that exists.
KingZeal
08:29:19 AM Nov 4th 2015
I'm fine with the idea that Classic Mythology has not true Type 7, but it should still be noted that the concept of fate or inevitability was still something that every being in Greek myth was beholden to. The myths themselves adhere to the principle that no matter how powerful a deity is, there are some things which are meant to happen and they can't stop.

Ananke was probably just as subject to her own power/nature as all other deities.
082122712641
05:59:07 AM Nov 5th 2015
It's settled then. Let's edit it.
082122712641
06:10:44 AM Nov 5th 2015
Should I list Typhon as a Type 6 too as well? I'm aware that defeating a Type 6 doesn't necessarily put someone in that same Type, but when I remember his description..."He could reach the stars with his hands" it's hard to say he isn't a Type 6.
KingZeal
07:21:47 AM Nov 5th 2015
Absolutely. He's certainly Type 6.
RandomGMan
Topic
05:53:09 PM Mar 17th 2012
If anyone deserves to be Type 6, it's Resurrected Jesus.
KingZeal
07:21:45 PM Mar 17th 2012
Why?
MasterGhandalf
07:57:35 PM Mar 17th 2012
Well, Christianity isn't about strict power rankings, but Jesus post-resurrection is an aspect of God less only than the Father (and maybe even equal, depending on who you ask- it's kind of thorny), while Satan and Michael are generally understood as opposite numbers and equals. I'd recommend switching Jesus and Michael's places in the current ranking.
Kossmeister
05:34:56 PM Apr 8th 2012
In the Book of Revelations, it is Jesus who ultimately defeats Satan so I agree, Jesus and Michael should be switched.
Collapse/Expand Topics