Series VEEP Discussion

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freesefan
Topic
10:16:41 AM Jun 22nd 2016
Entry listed under Artistic License Law is not correct. The show is correct, at least technically. The 20th Amendment does not state that the Vice President is sworn in as President if no President is chosen by the Electoral College. It states that they will be ACTING President. And the 22nd Amendment "10 year" rule states that no one who served more than half of a term to which someone else was elected will be eligible to run for office more than once. On Veep, no one was elected. If the House never votes again after the 25-25 tie, which is theoretically possible, Tom James would be free to serve as acting President for four years, assuming he was elected Vice President by the Senate (which apparently we can assume). And then, since he was never elected President and did not serve a term to which someone else was elected, he would be free to run in his own right twice.

This whole plot line is absurdly unrealistic, but it is technically possible under existing law.
TinMan
10:52:25 AM Jun 22nd 2016
edited by TinMan
If the House never reconvenes, James is president. You can't have an acting president when there is no president or if there's not a movement in place to choose one. Hence 22nd Amendment applies, so no Amy is wrong.

This goes all the way back to the Tyler Precedent. If there is a permanent vacancy in the presidency, for whatever reason, the VP becomes the president, not just an acting one. So if James can convince the House to never reconvene, then he formally succeeds to the job.
freesefan
12:03:13 PM Jun 22nd 2016
edited by freesefan
^That is just not correct. A Vice President becomes President when the President leaves office and the VP succeeds him. If the Presidency is vacant because no president has been elected, the VP is acting president. See the relevant section from the 20th Amendment:

"If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified"

So the Vice President does not become President, he acts as President, i.e., Acting President. And as I say above, since James is not serving a term as President to which someone else was elected, then yes, he would be free to be President for 12 years.

The Tyler precedent does not apply because in this case the office of President has not become permanently vacant. The House could at any time convene and select either Selina or O'Brien if the tie is broken. If that were to happen, Tom James would no longer be acting POTUS but would go back to being VP.
TinMan
01:18:35 PM Jun 22nd 2016
edited by TinMan
The 22nd Amendment still guts him. Notice the phrasing. "two years of a term to which some other person was elected President"

It doesn't stipulate when or how that person was elected to presidency, IE someone being elected years later via House election, since the Constitution refers to them as electors, still counts against him.

It also doesn't matter if no one was elected to the presidential term. The 10 year limit is against the vice president serving a term that isn't their own, regardless of who did or did not win it.

Edit: And I was right. The season finale shows the House isn't going to hold another vote, leaving the presidency vacant and it's outright stated whoever wins the Senate vote will become the president, not an acting president. I'm going to re-add the entry with some modifications.
freesefan
05:47:43 PM Jun 27th 2016
^No. The show is wrong, and you are wrong. If this were a Real Life scenario, Montez would NOT be president in fact. She would be Vice President, acting as President. The only body that can choose the President is the House and the only choices they can pick from are Selina and O'Brien. This is the same reason why James, or Montez for that matter, could be President for 12 years—because they aren't really president for the first four years of that 12 years, because the office of President is vacant.

I will be taking this to an edit war dispute, as you are incorrect and your entry is incorrect, but if I correct it again I'll get accused of edit warring.
Carnildo
01:32:34 AM Jul 1st 2016
edited by Carnildo
Article II, section 1

> In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office, the Same shall devolve on the Vice President

Amendment XII

> And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.

Amendment XXII, section 1:

> No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.

To me, this is quite clear: a Vice-President-elect who becomes President through the failure of the House of Representatives to elect a President is President exactly as if the elected President had died. As a result, such a person would be ineligible to serve more than eight years as president — four years from their selection as Vice-President, and a four-year elected term.

And for anyone thinking clever thoughts about the word "elected", the Twelfth Amendment has that loophole covered as well:

> But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.
jamespolk
Topic
08:31:36 PM May 4th 2013
I just deleted an entry on Comedic Sociopathy referencing the injured Marine at the end of "Hostages". The person who made that entry suggests that Selina is only concerned with her political prospects. I think this is wrong; she seems clearly upset that she inadvertently caused a Retirony situation which resulted in a Marine losing his leg. What does everyone else think? I'll put it back if others disagree.
jamespolk
11:14:38 PM May 5th 2013
This week's episode bolstered that, I think. Selina is freaked out by the appearance of missing legs.
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