Series Star Trek Deep Space Nine Discussion

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06:43:29 AM Feb 9th 2013
  • Stupid Good: The Deep Space 9 crew, even Sisko, start to drift into this in later season. "Oh noes, let's not kill off the genocidal changelings, that's so wrong", among other fallacies.

This is a poor example of Stupid Good. When Garak wants to bomb the Changelings in "Broken Link," he's stopped because it would get everyone killed (he would kill those on the surface, including Odo—who they are there to prevent from dying—and then the Jem'hadar would destroy the Defiant). It's supposed to be a little morally ambiguous, but Garak isn't a Starfleet captain and nobody trusts him. They are obviously not going to let him get everyone killed. With the Section 31 virus, they still aren't helping out the Great Link. They have moral objections to the genocidal nature because although the Changelings are genocidal, they are not the Changelings (having a moral compass does not equate to Stupid Good). Plus, their search for a cure is only for Odo's sake and Sisko actually orders him not to tell the Dominion. Odo isn't happy about it for obvious reasons, and his decision to cure the female Changeling is a unilateral one (which nobody in the room is happy about until it's over and she agrees to surrender).
01:40:57 PM Feb 9th 2013
I hear ya there, but there was more to it than just that. They have objections to more than just the morphogenic virus. Like when S Loan conspired to kill a wishy washy Romulan Senator and replace her with a Federation Operative. Or when Sisko punches Garak for what he did in "In The Pale Moonlight", or when they were complicit with letting Laas go, even though he was proving just as hostile to Solids as the Founders (in all fairness, he probably died of the morphogenic virus, since he linked with Odo, but I doubt they knew that).

I understand the concept of not sacrificing your principles, but when faced with an overwhelming enough threat, sometimes you just have to do what you have to do. Also note, I'm not saying they're full on stupid good, only that they have shades of it.
03:07:22 PM Feb 9th 2013
I think it has a lot to do with If You Kill Him, You Will Be Just Like Him with Section 31's actions. Laas was also a lone Changeling and it was just Kira who let him go, which was for Odo's sake since Laas wanted to find the other changelings from the Hundred (rather than joining the Founders) and have as little to do with solids as possible. Perhaps till unwise, but she was doing it out of love for Odo than a Stupid Good reason (like hoping he'd make a nicer version of the Founders or not wanting the Klingons to kill him).

If you do want to add a Stupid Good, I think the Pale Moonlight incident you mentioned would be the better one, since Garak thoroughly and mercilessly rips it apart as soon as he gets up. The bit with the Romulan Senator would also work well since both Admiral Ross and Sloan are able to easily manipulate Julian into getting what they want and Julian doesn't even suspect Ross' involvement until it's too late (that episode is basically about Bashir being Stupid Good).
06:54:12 PM Feb 9th 2013
Well it's hinted, but not confirmed that Sisko knew what they were doing with Laas, either way, I've always had a serious problem with If You Kill Him, You Will Be Just Like Him, as it comes off to me as a subtrope of Stupid Good. Still, I'll agree that the Moonlight one is a better example, as it's more clear cut. Agreed?
08:08:22 PM Feb 9th 2013
Yeah, it can be sometimes, but it really depends on what the writer thinks that trope is (in this case it's If You Kill Him You Will Be Much More Like Him Than You Want To Consider But What Choice Do You Have). But yeah, adding the Moonlight example sounds fine.
07:49:24 PM Feb 10th 2013