Series Firefly Discussion

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AFP
Topic
07:37:35 PM Mar 29th 2014
So, is there a proper place around here for the Comic book related stuff? I'm thinking both the one-off comics (Float Out, Shepherd's Tale, Better Days, etc.) and the continuation series (Serenity: Leaves on the Wind). Do we want to just create a Comic Book/Serenity page and toss everything in there under folder headings, or what?
SeptimusHeap
01:38:40 AM Mar 30th 2014
A page ComicBook.Serenity seems good to me.
AFP
08:02:41 PM Apr 8th 2014
And done. I'll fill in some more of the tropes later.
Discar
Topic
01:39:00 PM Feb 6th 2013
This entry was just deleted:

  • Expy: Jubal Early is a lot like Boba Fett. He's a bounty hunter and his ship resembles Fett's Slave I.

Although I'm not the one who added it in the first place, I think he counts. The ship is a dead giveaway. Hell, we can even just say the ship is an expy of the Slave I, if that makes people feel better.
Zaptech
03:57:35 PM Feb 6th 2013
I'd be cool with the ship being an Expy. I just have an issue with Expy itself, because it seems that people keep square-pegging it into "this character vaguely resembles this other character, so they must be Expies!" when an Expy is essentially the exact same character with minor differences.

I know Whedon has said that Early was also inspired by Boba Fett, and the ship itself was a very deliberate reference to that, but Early himself is too dissimilar to be an Expy.
Littlewiggle
Topic
08:48:35 AM Dec 2nd 2012
...Do we SERIOUSLY need a list of 'Averted tropes'?
flimflam
08:05:35 AM Dec 17th 2012
Little bit, yeah. Lot of Sci-Fi shows don't avert those tropes, so the averted trope gives as much an idea of what the show is as the included tropes.
Discar
10:16:46 AM Dec 17th 2012
I really don't think so. Not as a separate list, that is. It should be integrated back into the main list.
Larkmarn
01:34:24 PM Jul 24th 2013
Agreed, it's sort of silly. A lot of them aren't even close to Omnipresent Tropes, either, and don't even bear mentioning on the page at all (Really, Reality Has No Subtitles entry? Really?).
Discar
02:21:56 PM Jan 20th 2014
I'll reintergrate them back into the main list if no one has any objections.
Larkmarn
02:37:16 PM Jan 20th 2014
edited by 108.48.88.58
Well, most of them can just... go. Most of the aversions aren't of tropes common enough to merit a listing. Though some of them (like Kissing Under the Influence) are specifically referenced by the show so those should go into the main list as a subversion. But things like Instant Emergency Response? That's just a plain aversion of a non-omnipresent trope and as such really has no place on the list.
Discar
03:39:10 PM Jan 20th 2014
Done.
Redmess
Topic
02:21:20 PM Nov 6th 2011
This topic forgets to describe what the series is ABOUT...
fraxas
08:12:44 AM Jan 25th 2012
"The show told the story of a run-down tramp freighter, and its crew and passengers, trying to get along in the more isolated reaches of human space in the aftermath of a civil war."

Close enough. The movie is what more gets into the anti-authoritarian evils of government and River's fugitive story, less so much the series.
Ceyx
Topic
05:45:09 PM Oct 30th 2011
tnu1138
Topic
03:31:33 PM Apr 6th 2011
Character Sheet issue on Saffron's page it mentions that the name Yo Saff Bridg id canon but there is no source for this should it be removed?
Zaptech
02:09:03 PM Apr 7th 2011
Saffron is referred to that name by Mal in "Trash" while they're in the museum.
MrDeath
07:31:35 AM Apr 8th 2011
Point of clarification, it wasn't a museum, it was the guy's private collection.
hobbitguy1420
Topic
05:27:09 PM Mar 26th 2011
Er, is it just me, or did this Brick guy add a ton of Pot Holes that don't actually add anything to the article?
Zaptech
12:10:15 PM May 7th 2011
edited by Zaptech
I agree. It's gone from being useful to being incredibly annoying. We do not need to Pot Hole every single instance of a character's name. This is heading into Sink Hole territory.
hobbitguy1420
Topic
11:23:20 PM Oct 29th 2010
Regarding the Being Tortured Makes You Evil entry: I have altered the entry to suit the known facts from the series and cut the parts that were, per my knowledge, speculative or incorrect. If my knowledge is accurate and someone can cite a source, please feel free to correct.

The entry as it was:
  • Being Tortured Makes You Evil: This is how the Reavers multiply: whenever they take a ship, they leave exactly one person alive, and make them watch.

The new version per my edits:
  • Being Tortured Makes You Evil: One of the Reavers' most sadistic tricks. Sometimes, when they take a ship, they leave one person alive, and make them watch. The one time we saw this in-series, it resulted in the unfortunate victim trying to become a pseudo-Reaver himself, as a coping mechanism.

My reasons for this edit: We have no indication from Bushwacked that this is truly how Reavers reproduce; indeed, it seems unlikely that non-Pax-infected folk can become "real" Reavers, lacking the biochemical trigger. Also, we have no indication that they do this every time they take a ship, nor that it is only and always a single surviving victim.
Fighteer
07:59:19 AM Oct 30th 2010
edited by Fighteer
Good edit. We shouldn't insert WMG into main articles, only known facts.
BlueDude2
Topic
09:59:10 PM Oct 16th 2010
What do we have to do to get Firefly its own quote page? I'm not being rhetorical, I really don't know the protocol. The Simpsons has its own quote page, as well as a number of other pages. Seeing as how Firefly is such a diverse Trope Namer, I don't think a dedicated quote page would be out of place. Joss Whedon is just that quotable!
Taelor
10:15:26 PM Oct 16th 2010
1)Go to this page. 2)Click the edit button. 3)Add quotes.
199.60.112.10
Topic
03:54:18 PM Oct 14th 2010
Oops - just realized I added a Serenity quote to the Firefly page (under Mercy Kill), but it's pretty illustrative nonetheless.
199.60.112.10
04:19:32 PM Oct 14th 2010
Ah, I see I'm far from the first person to add a Serenity reference to this page.
Fighteer
Topic
08:53:47 AM Sep 21st 2010
I cut this entry because it seems overly broadly applied. Simply having an unassuming name is not enough to qualify for Fluffy the Terrible; it needs to be something like the hired killer being nicknamed "Pumpkin".

  • Fluffy the Terrible: The two most dangerous people on the boat have the gentle, unassuming names of Jayne and River.
    • Lampshaded in "Trash" (With a near Berserk Button reaction)
      River: Jayne is a girl's name.
      Jayne: Yeah? Well, Jayne ain't a girl! She starts in on that girl's-name thing, [reaches into his pants] I'll show her good 'n' all, I got man parts!
    • "Zoe" isn't exactly a name that strikes fear into the hearts of men either.

Fighteer
Topic
07:41:21 AM Jun 23rd 2010
Re: Hatedom — Since when are we in the business of cataloguing every instance of fans hating on a show? That way leads madness. Your Mileage May Vary is implied in everything we do on This Wiki.
Dark
12:35:26 PM Jun 23rd 2010
I wouldn't call having one actual entry on the entire page "cataloguing every instance", but it doesn't bother me if we remove it. I think that was there to show just how incredibly stupid people can be when it comes to hating the show.

It's also good for a laugh.
Fighteer
06:55:38 AM Jun 24th 2010
Well, it's debatably okay to add if a work has a persistent and widespread Hatedom that takes center stage in any discussion of it, but every work has people who don't like it.
199.64.0.252
Topic
09:37:12 AM Jun 4th 2010
That picture is TERRIBLE. I don't have a better one, but if anyone does, please change it. UGH.
Dark
11:16:18 AM Jun 4th 2010
Done and done.
Fighteer
11:49:35 AM Jun 4th 2010
We have an Image Pickin' forum if you want to get more input on page images.
Taelor
Topic
09:18:05 PM May 20th 2010
edited by Taelor
Removed for the following reasons.
  • Idiot Plot: Out of Gas, AKA Mal Almost Dies Due To Forgetting To Put On The Space Suit That Was Prepped For Him.
In the preceding edit war, the editor who added this post asserted as follows: "It's quite clear that the air is recycled from the suit. In fact, this makes my former version of this true, as if the suit recycles air the would have unlimited air." This is manifestly incorrect; a space suit will scrub the carbon dioxide out of your breath and then return the remaining oxygen to its reserve, but it cannot replace the oxygen that you have already used. It allows a given supply of air to last longer, but it will not make it unlimited. The editor further states that "Even if it doesn't, Mal should have put it on anyways just so he wasn't running out of air or freezing to death." While it is true that Mal could have prolonged his air supply by putting on his suit, as established above, it would only be a stop loss measure, and ultimately, it does not effect the overall plot. File it under Continuity Drift or What Happened to the Mouse? if you must. As to the second assertion, see this article.
Fighteer
09:31:19 PM May 20th 2010
edited by Fighteer
I concur with the above troper. I've been following the mini Edit War and if you don't stop it, HG 131, an edit ban may be in your immediate future.
Dark
09:32:50 PM May 20th 2010
Dark: Yes, the suits are not physically connected to the ship. What I meant is that they need air to fill their tanks, correct? Where do they get that air? Most likely, the ship, before they head into the black. There would be no point in pulling air from the ship to put in an air tank, as it would not last longer at all, since the ship likely uses the same scrubbing as the tanks that Taelor mentioned. That, or you're just removing 15 minutes of air from the ship to place it into a tank. 15 lost, 15 gained, net of zero. Even if the air in the tanks was already present, it would've made them last...how much, at most? An hour or so, perhaps? And they only have a few space suits. Not enough for the entire crew, considering at least one was wrecked in "Our Mrs. Reynolds". Either way, it doesn't matter. Using the suits would've prolonged the inevitable (since they weren't expecting anyone to find them), and the idea of getting everyone to leave ultimately saved more oxygen then they would have by using the suits. In addition, Mal came closer to death by bullet wound to the stomach than running out of air, making this a relatively moot point.
HG131
01:09:59 AM May 21st 2010
The air would already be in the tanks, and it would be way more then an hour. I'll even agree with the idea that they don't have enough suits (though I'd assume they have something to patch them), but Mal should have put it on, as it was PREPARED for him, AKA the air was already there. So, the air is already in it, and the air might have helped, as I think that his problems weren't 100% bullet wound inflicted (AKA, he was dying from blood loss and running out of air).
Fighteer
07:02:24 AM May 21st 2010
It doesn't matter. The simple fact that we're having an argument over it means that it's not a clear-cut case of an Idiot Plot, and therefore doesn't belong in the Main article. Put it in JustBugsMe if you want; that's what it's there for!
70.146.173.100
08:06:23 AM May 21st 2010
Mal wasn't dying because he was running out of air. When the pirates arrived, they pumped fresh air into the ship, and then he got the atmosphere processors working when he reactivated the engine.
HG131
02:13:50 PM May 21st 2010
edited by Dark
70.146.173.100: The ship was saying that it was about to run out of air.

Fighteer: Then why do pages like Hype Aversion exist? Not everyone agrees on it, it should be cut.
forlaughs
02:29:34 PM May 21st 2010
Way too many assumptions (and it's just pretty wrong) in saying that its an idiot plot: 1) Mal coulda been saving the suit for when air/heat (although River could be wrong about that...) ran lower, just so he could be more comfortable for longer. 2) he could easily have been shot long before that point came, especially because the salvagers/pirates brought new air in with them. 3) he could have then fallen unconscious before getting a chance to put the suit on/didn't put it on once he was shot because he didn't have time or was incapable of putting it on or in a 'do or die, so what does the space suit matter?' mood. 4) what you're saying is that he could have gotten the extra air from the suit. Why would you use that air first, and also use it for protection from the cold (although space isn't really cold, then again its possible that part of the ships design makes it lose heat fast to make up for the engines) while the ship is still full of air and heat? it would make more sense to use the ship as long as possible, and then go to the suit as a last resort (not to mention comfort). And if air was really the only problem, then he could have just taken the air out of the suit. 5) it had no effect on the plot, which did involve some 'idiocy' in that they didn't repair their ship right so it broke, but the running out of air had no effect on the plot (other than that it would happen eventually, which it would have with or without the suit) and whether or not/when Mal puts on the suit really didn't matter at all, so it definitely doesn't fit under idiot plot.
Dark
02:30:58 PM May 21st 2010
Okay, I made the above edit just to be somewhat dickish.

Onto the point.

Actually, it said: "Life support failure. Check oxygen levels at once." Meaning it was low, but that wasn't the primary concern. I think the stomach wound probably was.

In any case donning the suit had no advantages. Supposing it was prepped with fresh oxygen, he would've had a few more hours. Awesome! More time to sit around and die.

However, those few hours weren't needed, as he was shot by the captain. Hell, wearing the suit would've cut down on his manual dexterity, meaning he was even more screwed in that case, since manipulating the engine part, stabbing himself with the needle, and getting the gun would've been difficult if not impossible.

Also your point about Hype Aversion is invalid. Fighteer wasn't saying that if not EVERYONE EVER agrees with it it should be cut - but we're having an argument about it, meaning it shouldn't be put on the main page until an agreement is reached by the involved parties. That's why the page (and this discussion) exists - so people can discuss it.

To cap this off: A bullet wound's probably gonna kill you faster than depleting oxygen levels - especially if your ship just got a fairly large injection of air from another ship. Mal wasn't being much of an idiot when he didn't don the suit because he figured he was dead anyway, why prolong the inevitable?
74.168.26.130
03:13:49 PM May 21st 2010
70.146.173.100: The ship was saying that it was about to run out of air.

While the engine was offline. Once Mal plugs the part back in and starts the engine up, the voice cuts off.
168.178.40.53
03:36:48 PM May 25th 2010
I note that I've worn a haz-mat suit with SCBA gear before (like SCUBA, but not for underwater). It is FREAKING HARD to move, breathe, or do much of anything in them. And they're VERY heavy.

Now, granted, I'm a 90 pound girl, and Mal has more horsepower in those muscles, but it's still really hard even for people who have a lot of strength.

It might have saved Mal time, but on the other hand, he would also have been breathing harder because of the sheer effort of wearing the suit.
168.178.40.53
03:41:34 PM May 25th 2010
I recognize that the space suits aren't exactly the same as type A PPE, but really, I'd only expect a spacesuit to be a lot heavier, if just because of the insulation system.

People in the hazardous waste industry don't wear type A PPE for long, and neither do astronauts take long spacewalks in their suits. You can seriously pass out in them, which is a big problem if you're in a hard to get to area.
Gitman
Topic
10:18:27 AM Mar 29th 2010
Cleaned up the examples and removed references to the movie that don't apply
MrDeath
10:25:10 AM Mar 29th 2010
Did you at least move them to the movie page?
Dark
10:55:46 AM Mar 29th 2010
Yeah, he did, I just checked. That, or they were already there.
Taelor
09:17:16 PM May 20th 2010
edited by Taelor
Mispost. Ignore this.
Gilgamirage
Topic
06:19:21 PM Mar 23rd 2010
Replaced a reference to "Blind Idiot" Translation with one to Eloquent In My Native Tongue because, come on, painstakingly trying to get the translation right is hardly "blind idiot" level.
Mercy
01:27:11 AM Mar 24th 2010
Hmmm... Painstakingly? I have read articles that claimed the translator was not a native Mandarin-speaker, but an ABC whose linguistic background was in Cantonese. Probably the only people who know for sure are the actual production team. But I don't know how much credit should be awarded for "trying hard" anyway.
Dark
08:18:46 AM Mar 24th 2010
edited by Dark
I think the mere fact that they even went through a mild amount of effort disqualifies this from "Blind Idiot" Translation. Most of the works on that page didn't put forth any effort towards making their work sound decent, and if the actors practiced the proper translation and they had someone who knew the language on-set, that sounds like enough to qualify it for something better from "Blind Idiot" Translation.
Fighteer
08:23:04 AM Mar 24th 2010
I agree; calling it "Blind Idiot" Translation doesn't do justice to (a) the work they put it to make it sound right, (b) the sheer difficulty of getting American actors to speak good Mandarin.

SamCurt
06:29:26 AM May 11th 2010
On the other hand: Tam is the Cantonese transliteration of the Chinese surname in question; it is reasonable that they speak some Cantonese-influenced Mandarin. (The Mandarin version is Tan)
HG131
02:15:32 PM May 21st 2010
Plus, we now have the phrase hun dan. So, cut them a break.
Brownian
02:49:00 PM Oct 20th 2010
edited by Brownian
From a linguistic POV, I'm not sure that the show demonstrates this trope at all. Few loanwords are pronounced exactly as they would be in the languages of their origin (consider deja vu, gauze, kung fu, or wiener), and so it would be incredibly unlikely that a culture that speaks English predominantly would pronounce Mandarin words (or even phrases) much more accurately than they do in the show.

However, without information to confirm that the creators were intentionally aware that in this instance, RealityIsUnrealistic, I'm not suggesting that this trope be removed.

Just FYI.
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