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Wackd
topic
01:58:13 PM Jun 27th 2014
edited by 100.2.183.144
Is there any chance we could get some sort of consensus on exactly how closely cropped the pictures of the Doctor are supposed to be? Some are head-and-shoulders, while some get everything from the waist up. I'm more of an advocate of the former, really, as most Doctors have assorted outfits and it's the face that's the important bit, but in any case some consistency would be nice.

I made a mock-up of a head-and-shoulders version, for comparison. It's the same height and width as the current one, and the only picture I swapped out was Tennant's because the source image crops out his entire left shoulder. Granted, I don't think most of these work well as headshots, but I assumed they were voted on or something and I wanted to respect that.
FOPTroper
topic
10:04:37 PM Jun 10th 2014
Don't know if this should go under Headscratchers Fridge Logic, or even Hypocrisy, so I've put it on the discussion; did anybody find it slightly hypocritical, or perhaps even a little self righteous of the Eleventh Doctor in the Beast Below when he said "No one human has ANYTHING to say to me", especially since his Tenth incarnation went all Time Lord Victorious?
SeptimusHeap
04:18:43 AM Jun 11th 2014
I don't think that would fall under any of these tropes. Maybe Pride?
OldManHoOh
topic
01:39:11 PM May 12th 2014
edited by 151.230.143.55
Removed this from Universe Bible.

  • That statement is debatable. The series has always had a well-defined bible dating back to Sydney Newman and CE Webber's original source document. And the show has always had technical advisors to keep track of various things. Also, the actors themselves maintained continuity in terms of what buttons to press, etc.

I don't think Doctor Who has a Universe Bible. Newman and Webber's brief created before Anthony Coburn wrote "An Unearthly Child" hasn't been expanded on by any producer or production team, and I'm pretty sure it's the actors' own memory that make them press the same button rather than any document. Russell T Davies definitely didn't draw from this when pitching the revival series. I don't think a document outlining the very initial tone (which David Whitaker and Anthony Coburn heavily stray from) is the same as an American-style Universe Bible.

Is this source document the same document where "the Doctor" literally has the surname Who (and doesn't seem to remember where he came from, in contrast to Susan clearly remembering the details of Gallifrey in "The Sensorites" and the Doctor explictly saying he and Susan are "cut off" in "An Unearthly Child"), and Susan, Ian and Barbara are Biddy, Cliff and Lola? Along with Doctor Who's team "not writing science fiction" nor "fantasy"? Yeah, apart from the very basics of "an old man, two school teachers and their student travel through time", this barely resembles the early transmitted episodes.

Also, the police box shape is not mentioned at all, but the TARDIS (in the document called "Dr. Who's machine") actually turns invisible (which I don't believe happens prior to "The Impossible Astronaut" in 2011). That is, people can feel it, bump into it, partly disappear by partly entering it and fully disappear by fully entering it.

Newman's notes on this memo read "Don't like this at all" on several occasions as well, so Webber already seems to be straying from this in the development of the show.

Can't speak for technical advisors (though if this is referring to Ian Levine in the 80s, I'm pretty sure he was either unpaid or unbilled in his role).
OldManHoOh
06:16:02 PM Jun 16th 2014
edited by 151.230.136.101
In fact, here's an exact quote from RTD I found on the Big Finish podcast Who's Round 59 (at about 16 minutes):

"Well, exactly, and the fact that there is no great big controller dictating what this character [the Doctor] is. There's no bible sort of saying 'this character will be this'. Makes it much, it's, he's more interesting than Captain Kirk. All these other- more interesting than Buffy, frankly. It's, like, a lot of these characters do have bibles and it hasn't done them any good. This man's been a different actor, he's been all over the place, he can do anything. It's marvellous."
SLthethird
topic
12:47:37 AM Apr 27th 2014
The Weeping Angels cannot be killed normally, as looking at them makes them turn to stone and stone cannot be killed. That alone makes sense. However, couldn't someone, say, go at the statue with a hammer? Look away, and it basically bleeds to death-assuming you didn't hammer its head off, in which case it would die instantly. So, why exactly did this never occur to anyone on the show? (I've only watched the first two episodes with them, the two-parter in Season 5 counting as 2 episodes, so sorry if this was brought up at some point.)
SeptimusHeap
02:43:43 AM Apr 27th 2014
That is prolly a question for Headscratchers.Doctor Who
painocus
09:21:32 AM May 6th 2014
edited by 31.45.33.11
Whatever they are made of is probably stronger than actually stone. One episode of the new series showed characters trying to destroy them with firearms to no avail. At-least when they are at the peak of their strength. The same episode also showed that angels that had not feed in a long time would grow weaker which made their "stone"-form deteriorate easier.
OldManHoOh
topic
03:16:44 PM Apr 15th 2014
  • May Contain Evil: Besides the Nestenes and Autons, any hit trend or product is likely to be a front for an alien scheme. Satnavs, weight loss pills, a satellite phone network, school dinners...

...what on Earth?

Satnavs are (to at least richer people) an outright replacement for roadmaps. Not to mention that the front in that case was the clean ATMOS fuel. The satnav just happened to be built in.

Weight loss and dieting aren't really a fad at all (though they're obviously only really seen in developed countries). I mean, what? How are MOBILE PHONES a "hit trend or product"? Have I gone into a time warp into the 1980s to when these were a status symbol or something? And I'm not even going to touch on school dinners. Especially as it's not even directly about healthy eating or banning turkey twizzlers.
OldManHoOh
topic
03:49:57 AM Apr 11th 2014
I know both "Hide" and "The Day of the Doctor" allude to the "Witch from the Well", but what other Big Finish references were there in series 7b? I'm not that familiar, but I'm really struggling to see how "The Crimson Horror" and "The Name of the Doctor" (both focused on Moffat-era characters) or "Nightmare in Silver" (inspired by the "scarier" 1960s Cyberman episodes and largely involving doppelgangers fighting one another) could even make an oblique reference.
OldManHoOh
topic
03:37:15 PM Mar 15th 2014
Eccleston's run is not an example of Cut Short. The story arcs and characters introduced in the season continue into David Tennant's run a year later, and as far as I can tell, Russell T Davies did not plan any multi-year plan for Eccleston's version of the Doctor, especially when revamping the show was such a gamble, it may have not made it past 13 episodes.
MHMhasf1998
topic
10:27:19 PM Feb 10th 2014
Hello everyone. I and one of my friends have been trying to get on of our friends into this show, but we don't know which episode to start her off with. We don't want to scare her off, so "Blink" and "Midnight" are out. Thoughts?
SeptimusHeap
01:45:38 AM Feb 11th 2014
Hello, MHM. You might find more information in the forum thread - wiki discussion pages are more for discussing the page than the work.
MHMhasf1998
06:46:35 PM Feb 11th 2014
Cool, thanks.
OldManHoOh
topic
05:46:15 AM Feb 5th 2014
edited by 151.230.175.147
Removed from No Export for You

  • Played straight again immediately with the 2013 Christmas Special The Time of The Doctor. Now, BBC Worldwide's Asia arm has never aired most of the specials in most of their Asian feeds of BBC Entertainment except when they fancy, period (and apparently, only South Korea and Japan got to watch said special). Asian Whovians have previously been denied of the Easter Special, most of the past Christmas Specials, and many of the other specials for that matter. The specials have typically have been of little concern to Asian Whovians given that they're just filler episodes. However, The Time of The Doctor has the Doctor regenerating from Matt Smith to Peter Capaldi, the first time a doctor has ever regenerated in a special since the past two regenerations have happened in season ending episodes instead, and as it goes, all regenerations are very important events to Whovians. Many Asian Whovians tore BBC Worldwide Asia a new one. Though BBC Worldwide Asia have promised to air the special eventually, it won't happen anytime soon, and will most likely hold off until shortly before the next season premiere (which will result in the sick Christmas In July trope). The best option Asian Whovians have? Wait for the US Blu-Ray release at the end of March 2014 since US shares a Blu-Ray region with most of Asia (except China and India). Or if the Whovian has access to region-free DVD gear and don't mind watching the special at a lower resolution, import the UK DVD release which came out at the end of January 2014, which was still a full month's wait.

Specifically for this passage:

"The specials have typically have been of little concern to Asian Whovians given that they're just filler episodes."

And this bit about "The Time of the Doctor" behind a spoiler:

"the first time a doctor has ever regenerated in a special since the past two regenerations have happened in season ending episodes instead"

These Whovians are mistaken. Even considering they wouldn't have realised the significance of "Voyage of the Damned" to series 4, that still leaves, a post regeneration episode (Christmas 2005), the aftermath of cliffhanger endings (Christmas 2005, 2006 and 2007), the Tenth Doctor's imminent regeneration (Easter 2009, The Waters of Mars, Christmas 2009, New Year's Day 2010, where the regeneration happens), and the Doctor missing and returning to the Ponds (Christmas 2011) and the proper introduction of Clara Oswald along with the Doctor leaving retirement and the reintroduction of the Paternoster Row gang (Christmas 2012).

Not to mention, if BBC Worldwide Asia will air the special and just hasn't yet, then it's not this trope.
RAMChYLD
06:08:41 AM Feb 5th 2014
edited by 124.82.121.245
Actually, I confirm BBC Asia has never aired any of the specials. I was disappointed with them skipping the Easter Special, but since it was filler I let it past. But then they did skip The Time of The Doctor. I can confirm that there was a huge backlash in the contact us page for BBC Asia ( see http://www.bbc-asia.com/contact/?page=3 , halfway down, continued into page 4, 5 and probably further back).

The message given by BBC Asia (on Page 5) reads as follows:

Thank you for your enquiries asking whether Doctor Who: The Time of the Doctor Christmas Special 2013 will be shown on BBC Entertainment. This special is not due to be shown on the channel in the near future but we have certainly noted fans’ interest in seeing this Christmas Special.

Notice that nothing has been said about them airing it in the future. I assume it something is "No Export For You" until it is confirmed that they bring it in?

I guess I misinterpreted "we have certainly noted fans’ interest in seeing this Christmas Special." as that they will be airing it in the distant future, but have come to realize I was too optimistic.

I will go ahead and put it back into the page with some tweaks.

PS: I assumed that it aired in Japan and Korea somehow because there were many Japanese and Korean replies to BBC's posts about the special on Facebook, that seems to implies that the special has somehow aired in both countries and not the rest of Asia.
bweb
topic
09:04:38 AM Nov 28th 2013
Wasn't sure where to put this, so Discussion seemed like the best place. I've not seen any Word of God on the subject, and fans seem to be rabidly debating it whereever I go.

I believe that the events of The End of Time are still quite valid, and that The Day of The Doctor doesn't retcon them out.

Instead, if you listen closely to what the 10th Doctor said during The End of Time, he said "Back into the Time War, Rassilon."

Rassilon also spoke about trying to escape the Time Lock.

So it is my belief that Rassilon and his fellow Time Lords were trying to escape the Time Lock prior to the time that the Doctor used The Moment, and just before the final Dalek attack on Gallifrey.

Due to the events of The End of Time, that effort failed.

Then the final Dalek attack came, and The War Doctor attempted to use The Moment, resulting in the awesome solution that The Day of The Doctor gave us.
thatsnumberwang
topic
03:52:21 PM Nov 19th 2013
edited by 82.22.31.220
It has just been confirmed in a special called Night of the Doctor that there was indeed a secret regeneration between Eight and Nine (played by John Hurt).
  • This effectively makes the Ninth Doctor (Eccleston) the Tenth Doctor and the Tenth Doctor (Tennent) the Eleventh Doctor and the Eleventh Doctor (Smith) the Twelfth Doctor and the twelfth Doctor (Cipaldi) into the Thirteenth.
  • Does that mean we now have to do some major repair work? because any trope that currently refers to a Doctor by number, for example Ten, needs to be changed to Eleven and so forth. Do do so otherwise will both be incredibly confusing to brand new fans of the show visiting the page and factually inaccurate.
  • Of course we will know more when the show airs in a couple of days if the new doctor is more akin to Dr Handy than anything but I thought I would start the thread now just so we can think it over.
OldManHoOh
08:51:45 PM Nov 19th 2013
No. No. And no. John Hurt is an anomaly hidden from the Doctor's history and time stream even if he legitimately is a proper regeneration that follows McGann and precedes Eccleston. The three revival doctors have been widely known as Ninth, Tenth and Eleventh or Nine, Ten and Eleven for years. Also, as John Hurt's "Doctor" abandoned the name "the Doctor" upon becoming a warrior, Eccleston is still the ninth incarnation to go by the Doctor, meaning that although the count involving twelve regenerations may be complicated and require footnotes, that does not excuse site-wide renames for the 21st century Doctors.

The BBC site and the 50th anniversary site keep those names and will likely not change them.
Preda
02:37:55 AM Nov 24th 2013
So what he's called is the War Doctor even if I'd have preferred Warlock myself. What we need to do is edit the cover picture with his face I think.
crazysamaritan
03:10:48 PM Nov 24th 2013
Unless we can get permission for a bit of digital trickery, where a mouse-over reveals the new picture with the War Doctor inside.
Aurabolt
06:49:46 PM Nov 24th 2013
You do realize that we we have no inclination to keep the old numbering system, due to new information. We now know that all Revival Series doctors are up a number, this cannot be disputed. The reason this is also important is due to his lifespan; this makes Capaldi his final life, period.
Telcontar
moderator
02:14:35 AM Nov 25th 2013
Whilst now incorrect, the old numbering system is well-established and changing it would lead to a lot of confusion across the site (because even if we bumped the doctors up a number here, other pages with Doctor Who examples might not get that done) and be out of step with official materials. The numbers should be left as they are with a special note about the War Doctor.
TheStrayXIII
06:32:41 PM Nov 26th 2013
edited by 70.30.75.165
I believe it's been asserted that the original, official count refers to the Doctor who calls himself the Doctor. The War Doctor abandoned that name (save for that touching moment in the end, but of course he'd forget about it soon after), so he doesn't count.

Also, be warned, since Moffat also amended his prior statement about the numbering, how there's Twelve Doctors (that's counting Capaldi) and thirteen regenerations (that's counting Hurt). NOW he's saying that the Metacrisis Doctor also used up a regeneration (cue some people crying I Knew It!), so now Matt Smith's Doctor is the thirteenth incarnation instead of the twelfth, meaning his regenerating into Capaldi's Doctor should be impossible. I'm pretty sure there are those who disagree, so I foresee an Edit War about this coming in the future.
OldManHoOh
05:45:55 AM Feb 5th 2014
"The Time of the Doctor" maintains that Matt Smith still "the Eleventh Doctor".
TuefelHundenIV
topic
10:06:40 AM Sep 14th 2013
Hi folks I need a bit of help with an example(s) from a Special Efforts thread. See InstantDeathBullet Sandbox for more details Links to threads are in the description.

Any help, suggestions, or other info can be posted to The Special Efforts thread

There any examples of Instant Death Bullet in the various episodes? The Aversion entry will be removed as it is not a proper use of an aversion.

Is Rory's literal hand gun a gun in the traditional sense or is it some sort of fancy Ray Gun?

  • Doctor Who
    • Averted in the 1996 television movie, where the seventh Doctor is shot multiple times and faints - it's implied that he would have survived being shot and healed without regenerating if it hadn't been for Grace Holloway's attempts to treat what she thought was an irregular heartbeat - really his two hearts
    • Played straight in Eleventh Doctor episode "The Pandorica Opens"; after being shot by Rory, Amy spends a couple of seconds gasping for breath before dramatically falling backwards, dead. However, the following episode, "The Big Bang", reveals she is Only Mostly Dead and she is restored to life by the Pandorica.
      • We don't see the wound clearly, but the implication is a point-blank shot to the heart, which might well do that.

SeptimusHeap
topic
02:23:50 AM Aug 13th 2013
My Name Is Not Durwood is no longer a trope. Please readd under a correct trope.
genisgone
topic
07:29:28 PM Aug 5th 2013
Twelfth Doctor Spoilers I know that a good several million people watched the special and millions more found out online, but there are also plenty of people who are deliberately trying to avoid finding out Twelve's identity before December 25, so could we maybe wait to put up the giant picture of Peter Capaldi? I think enthusiasm is intruding on courtesy.
pittsburghmuggle
01:45:52 AM Aug 6th 2013
I see where you are coming from, but casting doesn't really fall under "spoiler", especially when the BBC itself wants everyone to know.
Gwiizmo
09:40:23 AM Aug 6th 2013
The casting of Peter Capaldi is all over the news. You have to live under a rock to avoid any spoilers until Christmas...
DiScOrDtHeLuNaTiC
topic
12:07:24 AM Aug 5th 2013
edited by 216.99.32.42
Hurt's Doctor explained

“There was a gap between Paul McGann playing the Doctor and Christopher Eccleston, when we didn’t see a regeneration, and John Hurt will fit into that gap. He is a past Doctor, not a future Doctor.”

http://www.denofgeek.com/tv/doctor-who/26279/doctor-who-john-hurts-50th-anniversary-role-explained#ixzz2b4mRIHeD

pittsburghmuggle
01:25:23 AM Aug 5th 2013
So 12 isn't "12", he's "12+X" where X is one or more regenerations.
DiScOrDtHeLuNaTiC
01:53:26 AM Aug 5th 2013
The way I took it is that they've never said just how long the Time War took, and even if you just go by Hartnell, then Time Lords do age; the rest just haven't stuck around long enough to do so visibly. Or they could just say something timey-wimey happened to make him look older.
pittsburghmuggle
topic
01:57:50 PM Aug 4th 2013
In the caption for the picture it points out that Colin Baker is not related to Tom Baker. Interesting that 10 (Tennant) actually is related (by marriage to his daughter) to Peter Davidson (5).
DynamicDragon
topic
02:33:47 PM May 8th 2013
Should Doctor Who be considered a franchise?
Telcontar
moderator
02:16:00 AM May 9th 2013
I reckon it can be.
OldManHoOh
topic
08:02:42 AM May 6th 2013
Re: Forever War: I'm not hugely familiar with pre-Eccleston Dalek history or nuclear war, but presumably, several nukes launched over a few minutes would be sufficient to make Skaro an uninhabitable wasteland. In fact, I think that's what the war originally was before Genesis of the Daleks retconned it.
RoadHazard7696
topic
08:16:40 PM Jan 16th 2013
Would Daniel Craig make a good doctor?
Wackd
10:21:45 AM Mar 9th 2013
Fandom tends to prefer folks who are unknown, or at least have more history with theater than film or television.
RoadHazard7696
topic
08:15:37 PM Jan 16th 2013
In the episode, "The Empty Child", the doctor seems to have less regard for human life than in other episodes, summed up with, "What is life but natures way of keeping meat fresh?". This seemed really out of character to me, does anyone have an explanation?
PhantomCobra
08:02:38 PM Jun 2nd 2013
He was referring to "life" at its most basic. Just because one has "life" does not mean one has consciousness. That's the distinction he was making. Sure, the nanogenes were able to bring the boy back to "life," but they weren't able to make him himself again.
lu127
moderator
topic
05:56:16 AM Jan 1st 2013
Does someone know where this goes?

  • Thinking Tic: A sketch has a bit where the BBC head of programming and the producer who is pitching Doctor Who to him are thinking and both drum their fingers to the "da-da-da-da" tune of the Doctor Who theme.

The person who provided it in the YKTTW said the sketch might be from the DVD of "An Unearhly Child".
Wackd
07:08:40 PM Jan 13th 2013
edited by Wackd
I'm relatively sure it's from a "Doctor Who Night" the BBC had in 1999. Not positive.
pliff
topic
07:39:22 PM Dec 11th 2012
Should someone make add Strax and Lorna to character page on Doctor Who other supporting cast? I mean Vasta and Jenny are both there and I know it's becuse they are well loved by the fans, but Lorna and Strax where in the same episode, and Strax even stared with Vasta and Jenny in the preview for the snowmen.
MastaSys
topic
06:35:41 AM Sep 22nd 2012
Isn't better change, in the character tab, change "Doctor Who Doctors" to Doctor Who The Doctor" or something similar. It's basically the (in a way) the same character played by several doctors, just "Doctors" it's a bit misleading, i now that when there are several incarnations they are named in the plural, but as a Name of the page, i really think its misleading for someone that doesn't know much about the series.
sadboring
topic
10:56:41 AM Sep 18th 2012
I'm happy to discuss this, but Riddell from "Dinosaurs on a Spaceship" fits [1] perfectly.

The episode's writer clearly wanted to show how tough Amy and Nefertiti were so he wrote in this character to make outdated remarks - refusing to take orders from a woman, thinking Amy is incapable of firing a gun etc - towards them just so they could respond.
OldManHoOh
topic
08:15:44 PM Jan 6th 2012

I realise it's officially licenced, but still, is The Curse of Fatal Death (and by extension, Dimensions in Time) an example of the series proper?
CrypticMirror
05:17:29 AM Jan 7th 2012
edited by CrypticMirror
No, they aren't. They are both a sort of Elseworld episodes, same with Scream Of the Shalka, the one with Stephen Fry in it, that Jimll Fix It skit, and those appearances at the Albert Hall for the Proms. Just Curse of Fatal Death is a very crack-y one.

Personally I'd love to know the canon status of the radio plays and the Tom Baker audio adventure "The Pescatons".
OldManHoOh
05:59:06 AM Aug 8th 2012
Doctor Who media has never been given "canon status" by an official body, unlike Star Trek and Star Wars. At least one of the writers (who did Shalka and the TV series) straight-up says that it doesn't HAVE a canon.
PhantomCobra
08:05:24 PM Jun 2nd 2013
It doesn't really matter. What with all the time travel that goes on, any of the adventures could be canon and not canon at the same time because "time can be rewritten."
OldManHoOh
topic
07:45:39 PM Jan 6th 2012
Is the "16 straight days" reference in Long Runners still accurate?
OldManHoOh
topic
02:06:00 PM Jan 3rd 2012
  • Conservation of Ninjutsu: In "Dalek", a single Dalek manages to wipe out an entire base full of trained elite soldiers (and is only defeated because it decides to destroy itself). More recent episodes have seen entire armies of the supposedly terrifying and insurmountable space-Nazis regularly thwarted by a combination of technobabble and genetic wizardry.

There's a sense of hypocrisisy in this entry, or is that just me? Couldn't the Dalek's defeat in "Dalek" qualify as "technobabble and genetic wizardry" as well?
Eagal
12:16:17 AM Aug 25th 2012
Didn't the Dalek in Dalek kill itself? Sooo...no.
OldManHoOh
08:40:29 AM Aug 25th 2012
Yes, but it hardly just woke up one morning and said "I've had enough of this world".
EMY3K
08:49:28 AM Aug 25th 2012
Well, the Dalek only killed itself because it had absorbed some of Rose's DNA and because it thought it was the last Dalek left. The Daleks in the season one finale had absorbed human DNA as well, but didn't kill themselves.
bb27
07:01:06 PM Feb 17th 2013
To be honest I've got to agree. Although we don't see the deaths more people die in the series 1,2 & 4 finals than do in the episode Dalek its just our characters are closer to the dalek hence we see the characters die contrast with parting of the ways where we just see continents change
urutapu
topic
05:53:30 PM Dec 19th 2011
Why are we using these icons for the character images? Wouldn't actual photos/screencaps be a lot more useful and less injokey?
Laymanterms
topic
05:31:13 PM Oct 20th 2011
edited by Laymanterms
This is my first time adding to a discussion page, so I hope I'm doing this right. Shouldn't Doctor Who have "Our Witches Are Different"? (The Shakespeare Code)? And shouldn't William Shakespeare himself be included as "Bi the Way"? (also The Shakespeare Code). New troper here, so if I should posit this somewhere else, just tell me where. Thanks!
Jaffacakelover
topic
11:19:18 AM Oct 15th 2011
I get the feeling there's a Name Trope for this, but I don't know the title. Amy Pond wears the trousers so completely in her relationship/marriage, that The Doctor calls her husband Rory Pond. Maybe a cultural misunderstanding... but a Radio Times cover did it too.
CrypticMirror
11:25:45 AM Oct 15th 2011
Henpecked Husband is probably the trope you are thinking of, but I don't think Rory is an example. He's just a laid back kinda guy who is happy to be with the woman he loves.
emeriin
11:27:52 AM Oct 15th 2011
I think he's more of an example of Tropes Are Not Bad. He's dominated and she wears the pants, but she treats him fine now and he's happy to let her take charge.
Telcontar
moderator
06:00:45 AM Mar 4th 2013
In that particular case, Rory Pond over Rory Williams might be a space issue — the names look better if they're close to the same length making the four of them roughly a square, but the full Rory Williams would break it. I do like how the Doctor often uses Rory Pond, though.
Mith4
topic
07:03:04 AM Oct 11th 2011
Should we mention the space whale in "space is an ocean", or is that redundant? Seems like you might even wanna mention it under "the sky is an ocean".
Mith4
topic
07:02:30 AM Oct 11th 2011
The trope "Christmas Episode" has a reference to "the aforementioned comedy episode". I suggest people shouldn't make references to previous tropes like that. The list is constantly filled, so no one will know which trope was right above it when this was written.
OldManHoOh
topic
05:37:58 AM Oct 6th 2011
"Use of the word "companion" in-series only really started with the new series."

My knowledge of classic series Who is limited, but The Mind Robber pretty clearly uses the word "companion", so is this really an example of Ascended Fanon/Sure, Why Not??
ladyofprocrastination
11:07:36 AM Jan 19th 2012
"Companion" is used as far back as the first serial, IIRC, although not exactly in the usual context.
OldManHoOh
topic
02:04:03 PM Sep 17th 2011
edited by OldManHoOh
Okay, so I want to add a Put on a Bus entry for Amy and Rory in "The God Complex" (I think I read somewhere that the actors are returning in a recurring capacity for series 7), but I'm not sure how to word it without it being a Self-Fulfilling Spoiler or a massive wall of white.
Trotzky
02:13:08 PM Oct 3rd 2011
Classic Who: companions join and leave.

RTD Who: companions join and leave or die.

MOF Who: Doctor recruits Amelia at age 8 and abandons her until she is 20 and abandons and comes back and abandons and comes back.
La_Ninje
topic
02:50:20 AM Aug 16th 2011
edited by La_Ninje
Something that has bugged me a lot recently is how the Wham tropes (Wham Episode and Wham Line) relate to Doctor Who, because of the Status Quo changing nature of wham, and the fact thatthe show's premise is so simple that it can't really change that much (And RTD's propension to use the Reset Button all the time).

Most examples listed both here AND in the trope pages are (imho)not Wham at all, because theyre mostly twists in one particular serial.

Case in point : the 'End of Time' example listed on the show's main page : it's not a Wham Episode, it just has a Cliffhanger.

Other examples on Live-Action TV :

- The three bullet points about companion deaths are not really examples, companions come and go all the time, often in a tear jerking fashion (mostly depending on how much you liked the character...), still part of the premise.

- The Cliffhanger for Stolen Earth/Journey's End : yeah, it was a surprise cliffhanger. Then, it was resolved in less than twenty seconds in the next episode and didn't have any repercussion (or even mention) after 10.5 departure. No wham here.

- A Handful of Master examples. "Holy Shit the Master is Back ZOMG" is no really an Wham example when it's resolved next episode with an absurd Reset Button, and never mentionned at all. bonus point for this gem : "If that's not the EPITOME of this trope, I don't know what is." No, that's not the epitome, that's not actually an example.

- Army of Ghost example : more of the same, Cliffhanger, egregious Reset Button.

- The Rory example might count, because of the impact of his loss on Amy, and the various mentions in the following episodes, but the example fails to point this.

- The series 32 examples are kinda fine by me, because they change the dynamic in the Doctor/Amy/Rory relation, even if it doesn't come into play until The Almost People.

All in all, apart from stuff like the first regeneration, and the Doctor being stranded on earth (which I'll add), there haven't been a lot of true Status Quo changing in Doctor Who, ever.

So, quick question here : should I go on a killing spree and remove all the rubbish examples? If I do, will they be re-added in the following minute? Should I just add a Line in Square Peg Round Trope, or will it ironically Square Peg Round Trope the Square Peg Round Trope page?

thanks.
OldManHoOh
07:25:16 AM Aug 17th 2011
Between 1963 and 2011, all of five companions have died without returning later on (Katarina, Sara Kingdom, Adric, Astrid and Adelaide)* and of those, Adric is the only "regular" companion to do so, so yeah, I would call that a rather big shake-up.

You seem to be using Reset Button in a way I don't recognise. Does it just mean "killing/trapping the enemy" now?

Army of Ghosts - The destruction of Torchwood London is an important and mandatory part of the spinoffs, but also that of The Runaway Bride, the series 3 and 4 finale, and The End of Time.

Utopia - A lot IS reset, but that still doesn't change the fact that he's been manipulating Martha's family from behind the scenes, as well as the fact that the Doctor couldn't (and can't) sense any surviving Time Lords in the universe. Another person hiding with a fobwatch? Seems pretty Whammy to me.

I don't consider plot threads "Emergency Temporal Shift", the Cybermen being pulled into the Void with the Daleks and the Master and that ring being picked up on again in a long string of Dalek episodes, The Next Doctor, and The End of Time, respectively.

Granted, I don't have too much issue with removing the End of Time example. I don't even recall stuff about "the Void" and "time bubbles". The Doctor BURNED Gallifrey, right?

The alterations between cast members IS a change to the status quo, isn't it.

I also don't see how they fit HSQ instead. In fact, the HSQ page STATES "Wham Episodes tend to have a high HSQ".
CrypticMirror
11:32:24 AM Aug 17th 2011
I just have to point out, Peri's fate is ambiguous. Katarina, although not there for long, was intended to be a Wham moment to the sixties audience.
La_Ninje
04:40:51 PM Aug 17th 2011
edited by La_Ninje
The companion-changing moment does alter the status quo, but the changing itself is part of the premise of the show, which is a stronger (at least more immovable) notion.

The mention of past companions have mostly always been "they come and go and it's always sad". the Adric example, though more valid as Wham Episode than, say, the departure of Dodo, made for a tear-jerking episode conclusion, but didn't have more repercussion than, the departure of any other companion. *because the cast alteration have become part of the premise*

The problem is the examples only list the HSQ part of a given episode, not the status quo altering part of the episode. So yes Torchwood'd destruction was a handy plot device for a handful of later stories, though it is a "Emergency Temporal Shift" kind of plot device - except as a background element rather than a central plot point.

Thing is we should list those particular ETS instances (precisely, an enemy that shouldn't exist, does because they got lucky, but at the end of the episode, it is the final end of that enemy...ever! — which I unaccurately refered to as reset button though, technically it's not, but given the very episodic nature of the show, for all intents and purposes, it is the same thing)

- The Dalek ones (obviously)

- The Cybermen

- The Master/Time Lords have one (actualy Utopia/Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords isn't any more Whammy than Dalek) and YES, the Doctor burned Gallifrey, which we have known since series 1. not an End of Time revelation.

- The numerous tech scavenged from the supposedly destroyed TW 1 who all get destroyed by the end of the serial in which they're introduced.

- The time war had at least three FINAL BATTLE EVER-s! (Dalek, Parting of the ways and End of Time - though every other Dalek story might count too...)
tinwatchman
topic
09:43:51 AM Jul 15th 2011
So here's a question for you - those kind of speeches that the Doctor likes to do where he tells his enemy exactly how he's going to (or how exactly he *already* has) defeated him/her/it/them... what would you call those? They're not exactly Kirk Summation, since - just as often as not - the Doctor is telling his enemies what he's *already* done, or already considers them beyond redemption. They're also not exactly "The Reason You Suck" Speech, though there usually is some kind of overlap. A few examples in particular of what I'm talking about: the Eleventh Doctor telling off House at the end of "The Doctor's Wife"; and the Tenth Doctor's speech to the Cybermen while stalling for Mickey to save the day at the end of "The Age of Steel." What would you call that?
tinwatchman
09:49:09 AM Jul 15th 2011
Mentally, I call them "Doctor Speeches" at the moment; though I have the suspicion that they must turn up elsewhere.
engelkith
12:32:39 PM Aug 7th 2012
edited by engelkith
The Doctor seems to be especially talented at the Crowning Moment of Awesome, which he conveys via speechifying. Generally, they seem to include to following elements as well as the ones you mentioned:

Bavarian Fire Drill; Xanatos Gambit; Last-Second Chance; Dare to Be Badass

None of those really capture his specific talent, though. The battle's already won, he's just letting you know. If anything, it needs a new category: Check and Mate.
nicepersonn
topic
06:26:28 AM Jun 12th 2011
Is the page quote really appropriate? It seems more to sum up the RTD era than anything else, not every season is defined by "running". How much did Hartnell run around, or even Tom? Perhaps something else like the "mad man with a box" line sums up the show and character a bit better.
OldManHoOh
06:34:16 AM Jun 12th 2011
edited by OldManHoOh
Really? I thought running through corridors was a staple of the old show too. Not the Hartnell era, though, obviously.
OldManHoOh
07:04:14 AM Aug 17th 2011
And even THAT I'm not sure about, as one of One (not actually played by Hartnell) and Susan's first scenes in The Five Doctors are exactly that.
CrypticMirror
07:07:38 AM Aug 17th 2011
the very first appearance of the Daleks was at the end of a scene which involved running down a corridor. The running along (cardboard) corridors is mentioned almost as often as the phrase "behind the sofa" when it comes to Who.
helterskelter
05:39:25 PM Oct 19th 2011
Mad man in a box is typical of The Doctor himself, but I think the current quote works for the show.
jdotmi
topic
06:25:55 AM Jun 7th 2011
edited by jdotmi
Non Sequitur issues. Everything listed under it is actually Arc Words or ArcSymbols. Just because they don't make perfect sense the first time we see them doesn't make them Non Sequitur or Big Lipped Alligator Moment candidates. In order to fit those tropes, they have to not have any relavance to the story and/or are never brought up again.

From the Arc Words page:

An enigmatic word or phrase that appears, unexplained and without context, here and there throughout an Arc, and (with luck) is finally explained at or near the climax. A way of building up tension and mystery, as well as an indicator that anyone using the words knows more than they're telling. Can also be used as a memetic way of advertising the show. A typical element of a Mind Screw.

Before I change anything, I just want to see if anyone else agrees with me on this.
OldManHoOh
topic
02:21:05 AM Jun 7th 2011
Removed Luke, You Are My Father. It's definitely Luke, I Am Your Father. Yes, wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey, but River's not some unheard-of long-lost relative. She's a Kid from the Future, who's also the adventurer archaeologist that's appeared in several episodes. She also seems to be the frightened little girl in "The Impossible Astronaut" and "Day of the Moon".
Torfindra
01:24:13 PM Jun 9th 2011
edited by Torfindra
Here is my reasoning why it should be Luke, You Are My Father: This isn't a situation where someone is revealing their maternity/paternity to someone but is the *other* way around. Yes, River has been known to Rory and Amy for two series but they don't actually know who she really is; they don't know her *real* identity. Therefore this should be considered a Subverted Trope of Luke, You Are My Father because, further on in "A Good Man Goes to War," Melody had just been taken. While she isn't a "long-lost" child she is still "lost;" Rory and Amy have no idea where she is or if they will ever see her again. In light of this fact it is a big shock when River reveals herself as their daughter from the future.

What's the consensus on this issue, then? Does anyone else agree/disagree with either of us?
OldManHoOh
02:49:48 PM Jun 9th 2011
edited by OldManHoOh
I'll add that she's been seen four times before said kidnapping. Three by Amy, and two by Rory. She's not an unknown. That's my main point of contention. They know at least as much as we do about an archaeologist called River Song before Melody's kidnapping.

Luke, I Am Your Father, both on the page, the Laconic page and on the Canonical List of Subtle Trope Distinctions, simply says characters once thought to not be parental-child related before, are. It doesn't say who reveals what to who, though for obvious reasons it's usually the parent to the child.

Though I'm not sure what you mean by subverted. But, yes, I'd like some more discussion on this point.
Qicetrini
04:58:15 PM Jun 21st 2011
edited by Qicetrini
I agree with Torfindra on this.

While Amy and Rory know River, they still had no idea that River is their daughter's future self, therefore she tells them this and reassures them that the Doctor would find her and that she would be okay. Therefore, Rory You Are My Father does still fit the situation.
OldManHoOh
12:57:37 AM Jun 23rd 2011
They don't, but isn't that the entire definition of Luke, I Am Your Father that I just mentioned in my above post?
Torfindra
08:22:05 AM Jun 26th 2011
edited by Torfindra
Those two links you gave me are just general distinctions between the tropes. The trope pages themselves should be considered the real sources; the real point of distinction is who is doing the revealing, as I mentioned in my previous post. According to the actual Luke, I Am Your Father page it is always parent to child and always vice-versa in the Luke, You Are My Father page - the latter trope being what happened in the first place since it is the child to the parents.

Also, in the latter trope the child has to be either unheard of OR long-lost; these requirements can be mutually exclusive as the trope explains. As I wrote above, Rory You Are My Father is subverted since she isn't a "long" lost child; Amy and Rory lost Melody just now. River, on the other hand, was aware of the fact that she is long lost.
Trotzky
12:41:34 PM Oct 3rd 2011
River says "Rory, you are my father.", this fits Luke, You Are My Father which is the Anti Trope to Luke, I Am Your Father.

Except it ain't. There is a Grandfather Clause such that LIAYF is the Super Trope for all {insert name}, I am your {insert relation} and LYAMF is the sub-trope.

Both the super trope and the sub trope apply, leave them both in tlc.
Trotzky
12:41:34 PM Oct 3rd 2011
edited by Trotzky
Double post please delete

Both the super trope and the sub trope apply, leave them both in tlc.
OldManHoOh
topic
03:41:03 PM Jun 6th 2011
Would the Silence count as The Greys? They seem to do some experimentation on Astronaut Girl, but their appearance is all wrong, and Moffat himself says that their influence is from the Edward Munch painting The Scream.
Generality
04:15:56 PM Jun 6th 2011
Someone's added them to that page; I'll say that I first thought they were Greys when I saw early previews, but those were all very brief and distant views. They do seem to have something of it about them, though. And it seems fitting since they're most active in America and Greys are part of American popular culture.
OldManHoOh
04:29:19 PM Jun 6th 2011
"Most active in America"? Huh? They've colonised Earth since prehistoric days, and have tunnels reaching out across the entire planet.

I read the description on The Greys page, and the appearance doesn't really work at all for me. The main discrepancy is that they're too tall, and the eyes (even with the weird shadow the sockets make) are too tiny.
Generality
05:21:18 PM Jun 6th 2011
edited by Generality
It was stated in the show that most of the Silence are in America, though they didn't say why. Also, Greys can be tall. It's a common enough variant.
Trotzky
12:29:10 PM Oct 3rd 2011
Silence are Munch's Scream? I was thinking the Gentlemen from BTVS, but both could derive from Scream.
nukeguy04
topic
05:49:50 PM May 25th 2011
I added Moment of Awesome to the list but I'm not good at wiki things so I'm not sure how to make it a link, or add examples. I don't want to add any and not have spoilers hidden, but I was thinking about the end of Day of The Moon anyone who has seen it knows what I am talking about.
OldManHoOh
topic
09:16:43 AM May 17th 2011
edited by OldManHoOh
Is the page locked?
Madrugada
moderator
12:22:51 PM May 17th 2011
Redirect is now broken; the Series.Doctor Who Namespace title is now accessible for the series pages to be moved to them.
OldManHoOh
topic
01:30:54 PM Apr 30th 2011
Is Music of the Spheres considered canon? It talks to the Proms audience, so I'd assume it wasn't.
josephripken
10:35:38 PM May 3rd 2011
Yes, it is canonical. It takes place after "journey's End" and before "The Next Doctor."
SpiritOfSahara
topic
02:36:41 AM Apr 25th 2011
edited by SpiritOfSahara
Okay, I have no idea where to add this, so I'm asking here for advice.

I was just browsing BBC's Doctor Who homepage and read a bit about The Impossible Astronaut on it's own episode page, when I found a code in the section named "the fourth dimension".

There are some words that are in cursive - and if you put them together you get all the secrets you seek can be found here on the Webb.

So, um, I'm kinda blown away by this. Comments? Where can I add this factoid here on tvtropes?
TwinBird
02:41:52 AM Apr 25th 2011
...Webb?
SpiritOfSahara
02:45:27 AM Apr 25th 2011
edited by SpiritOfSahara
The cursive word in question was a surname. I think they just mean "web" as in the homepage or the internet.
SpiritOfSahara
03:24:03 AM Apr 25th 2011
Done a little research now.

For your viewing pleasure. Make of it what you like.
Hadri
topic
02:50:27 PM Apr 5th 2011
Re: page quotes

I'm putting the old one back for now. I'd just as soon have no page quote at all, because less is more and I don't see how that kind of thing is necessary.

People keep coming in here and adding or changing the page quotes. It gets on my nerves, which is why I'd like us to try and stick to one. The Donna quote has been there for some time and there was some consensus on it awhile back. I like it because it is short, succinct, and funny. It's not that I don't like the immensely quotable snippet from Mr. Gaiman, I do, but it's long and too meta for me. If we quote anything we should be quoting from the show.
occono
03:09:09 PM Apr 5th 2011
Hmm, Talk pages never appear on my watchlist anymore so I forget to use them.....anyway, I still vote for the new quote, but I get your points.
OldManHoOh
03:10:10 PM Apr 5th 2011
edited by OldManHoOh
Try dropping and readding watches.

...which I actually forgot to do for this page myself. D'oh.
SpiritOfSahara
topic
06:46:52 AM Mar 6th 2011
It seems all the links on the recap pages to online episodes with (at least) the first Doctor aren't working anymore. They used to go to a great page that collected pretty much everything, but it was shut down a few months ago. Does anyone have a replacement of some kind?
Hadri
topic
02:26:52 PM Jan 19th 2011
We'd better propose a new caption. One that won't get vandalized and edit warred all the time. There really should be something, I'm just not sure what. Any ideas?
AcrossTheStars
03:38:14 PM Jan 19th 2011
The problem is, there doesn't seem to be any one line that epitomizes the show itself (unless, of course, it's "Run!") The Doctor's incarnations all have different catchphrases. But then, my knowledge of Classic Who is extremely sketchy and the only series I know in-depth is Christopher Eccleston's.

What we need is that one sentence or phrase that just says "Doctor Who." And we can't use "Vworp Vworp Vworp!" as a caption (if only!)
Generality
06:49:21 PM Jan 19th 2011
How 'bout just no caption then? Or is that too boring?
Hadri
07:06:54 PM Jan 19th 2011
Having no caption both lacks context where context is needed and also encourages tropers to fill the space with something stupid that they think is clever (or at least revert the deleted one, which has happened already). We should put something there that's hard to mess with.
AcrossTheStars
07:41:41 PM Jan 19th 2011
AcrossTheStars
topic
07:11:20 PM Jan 17th 2011
Can we stop the back-and-forth on the "Trust Me, I'm a Doctor" pothole on the caption? It's stupid and it's an Incredibly Lame Pun. Plus, it spams watchlists. LEAVE IT. It doesn't need to be there.
OldManHoOh
topic
10:13:40 AM Jan 4th 2011
Just so I understand, "Rule of Ice Hot" is a reference to that star in "Amy's Choice". Is that right? If not, then what's it referencing?
john_e
03:24:30 PM Apr 5th 2011
The slang in "Paradise Towers".
MetaKitty2010
topic
07:13:18 PM Nov 18th 2010
Not sure if this goes here, but does anyone know where to watch Dr. Who online? I've never seen it before. It sounds interesting but I'm clueless about where to watch it. Thanks in advance!
Hadri
09:15:25 PM Nov 18th 2010
I'm not going to just tell you where to watch it illegally. You'll have to find it on your own (it's not hard).

Alternatively, netflix has the first five years of the revival online, whcih you'll get better quality for.
MetaKitty2010
03:56:48 PM Nov 19th 2010
edited by MetaKitty2010
Actually it is very hard to find a decent site to watch it on, otherwise I wouldn't asking where to find it. I never said anything about watching it illegally, I was only asking if there was a site (like an official website or something) that had back episodes on it. But I'll probably just order a box-set of it.
Hadri
04:44:00 PM Nov 19th 2010
edited by Hadri
Believe me, there is at least one site that streams every episode plus every episode of the spinoffs and is not at all hard to find.

If you can afford a box set, do yourself a favor and get a netflix account instead.

The BBC itself hosts the episodes sometimes, but for stupid reasons that I don't understand, the content is blocked outside the UK. So you're probably down to streaming/downloading them illegally, or renting them in some way, or buying them, whichever you prefer. I'm not aware of any site that streams them legally for free at the moment, probably for aforementioned UK copy protection.
MetaKitty2010
04:06:31 PM Nov 21st 2010
Yeah the BBC doesn't show in my country either so I'll go with the netflix plan. Thanks!
Brickie
02:59:51 PM Nov 29th 2010
The reason the BBC website is blocked outside the UK, by the way, is probably because of how the BBC works. The programming is paid for not by advertising (which is actively forbidden on the BBC), but by me, and millions of other Britons, paying a fee for a "license" to watch television. It's compulsory if you own a TV set, not a subscription model like cable or satellite.

So, a decision was made that British license-fee payers pay for the programme, they get to watch it free and everyone else can buy the box-set or wait for their own TV network to buy the show. And I have to say, as one of said license-fee payers, good on them.
75.221.198.212
08:18:03 PM Jan 18th 2011
Yes, but why not try to market the licenses outside the UK, and just have some sort of Log-on for the site? I would buy it.
Hadri
12:58:11 AM Jan 19th 2011
You would? piracy is so easy that not many people would. The BBC may need to address this someday, because it's not like we all have to wait for the tapes to be shipped overseas anymore.
Gizensha
04:06:25 AM Apr 22nd 2011
I believe the BBC are looking into implementing an international iPlayer, which I imagine will either be on a subscription model or a $1 an episode style model...
philipw
topic
10:11:03 AM Nov 18th 2010
Any advise on where to start?

Exactly What It Says on the Tin - I've never watched Doctor Who before, and don't want to get spoilered by the too detailed page description, so what season is the best season to start with? The very first episode ever, the first one with the current doctor, the first episode from the current/last season, some other place to start?

Thanks in advance.
SilentDave
10:35:38 AM Nov 18th 2010
I wouldn't start from the very first episode. The show's been going far too long.

My advice is to start with the first 2005 revival episode, with the ninth doctor, Christopher Eccleston. It's called "Rose". Things will still makes sense. They'd have to for it to work, since it was the first episode after a long hiatus.

Enjoy! I'm sure you'll love the show!
Hadri
10:41:11 AM Nov 18th 2010
edited by Hadri
There's a graphic to help with this:

i.imgur.com/mZYW5

I also recommend Rose. By the time you catch up to the current series, you'll be a fan. You'll also be better able to appreciate the pre-modern series, which are very unlike a modern TV Show and harder to break into.
La_Ninje
05:30:18 PM Nov 18th 2010
I recommand to start at season 31.

Far too long to start from An Unearthly Child and the production values make it hard to step in for a 00's viewer starting during the "classic" era.

The episode that really got me started is The Eleventh Hour. Then I watched the RTD era. During 9 and 10's run it is a truly mediocre series with (at most) 3 great episodes per season and the rest ranges from So Bad, It's Horrible (Fear Her, Aliens Of London/World War Three, the one with Simon Pegg, Voyage of the damned, Season 30 Finale two parter) to So Okay, It's Average.

Had I started with Rose, I'd have stopped 2 minutes in.
philipw
02:52:11 PM Nov 29th 2010
Okay, thank you. I'll start at series 1.
OldManHoOh
03:03:19 PM Nov 29th 2010
So Bad It's Horrible has fallen into So Bad It's Horrible Trope Decay.
SomeGuy
topic
02:33:22 PM Sep 1st 2010
All right, this page is too much. It's insanely long, nigh-incomprehensible, and uses some very unusual wiki mark-up not seen elesewhere on the site. Ironically, I can't even fix it because I know little about the finer points of Doctor Who and this page has done squat to educate me.

Given my ignorance, I'd like to hear some suggestions for improvements, as I've no good ideas of how to proceed.
vaguedisclaimer
04:22:06 PM Sep 1st 2010
Trouble is the show has been running for the fat end of 50 years, the lead character has changed actor - and characteristics - eleven times to date and the companions (effectively second lead and as important to the canon as the lead) many times more. The story has ranged over all of space and time (literally from the beginning to the end of the universe), introduced two major British cultural icons as well as several lesser ones - and encompassed almost any form of televisual story telling you can think of.

It is a show a huge and labyrinthine history - and the namer for 22 tropes - and although I'm quite certain a good copy edit would shorten it a fair bit, in terms of key details it really hasn't gone too far.

I think the mistake was perhaps not including the premise in the intro until yesterday, when I added it. Because the premise is really very simple. But the rest just isn't.

I know - not that helpful, but I've looked at it a few times and there really isn't a section that could be removed and the page still be considered complete by those of us who saw the very first episode and have been fans ever since.
SomeGuy
07:54:43 PM Sep 1st 2010
Oh, don't be so apologetic- that's much more helpful than what I've gotten from Trope Repair Shop on this.

If I look at this more closely, the first five paragraphs as of this writing are fine, and could probably stand slight rewrites, but nothing major. It's what comes after that's confusing. We've got a couple of paragraphs about how the show has puzzling numbering, and about a dozen special paragraphs that so far as I can tell are trope example essays.

To get anywhere, it might behoove us if the Doctor Who fans could explain why so much of this information needs to be in the description. Why do we need to know right off the bat that series 4 uses weird numbering? What's with the "significant characters and concepts" section? Most of those are just tropes. No other page that I'm aware of uses special formatting to call attention to "important" examples.

I'll grant I don't speak for everyone, but a lot of this is off-putting. It makes the page look longer than it actually is and consequently makes me not want to read the page. In my opinion a lot of this stuff needs to be reorganized for the aesthetics to be any good here.
vaguedisclaimer
07:52:25 AM Sep 3rd 2010
Well, everything will always benefit from a good copy edit, but good copy edit is hard and takes time (which is why there is so much over-written drivel on Wikipedia).

The challenge is to find a way that is respectful of other's work (including their sense of humour), while trimming the cruft.

The ep number paras can go, but they are a fanboy-ish bone to chew so it would be a shame to lose them completely (a meta entry on Headscratchers strikes me as harmless enough).

But it does get tricky. Missing Episodes are very important to Who's history - but I doubt we need listings of other shows affected (they are dealt with elsewhere): that William Harnell's last episode is lost and you can win a damned Dalek if you ever find it: that matters.

In the interest of humour I'd almost be minded to remove the entire trope list and replace it "All of 'Em", but that might be a tad controversial.

Brickie
03:24:49 PM Nov 29th 2010
I still think the page is very very long and confusing for new readers, and I'm wondering if there's some there that can be cut out and readers redirected to the pages on the Other Wiki for more detail.

I'm willing to have a crack at a copyedit, but is there any sort of Sandbox feature around the site where I can throw something out and get feedback without actually changing the page as is?

On Wikipedia, I can do it in my User Space and direct people to look there...
OldManHoOh
03:26:08 PM Nov 29th 2010
edited by OldManHoOh
Sort of. Most people would probably just go Sandbox.Doctor Who, I think.
OldManHoOh
topic
02:08:28 PM Sep 1st 2010
If no-one objects, I think I'm going to remove the part of the lead which has two paragraphs on the technicalities of season titling and definition.
vaguedisclaimer
04:24:04 PM Sep 1st 2010
Bung 'em into Just Bug Me.
OldManHoOh
04:38:48 PM Sep 1st 2010
I don't think production titling belongs in It Just Bugs Me!.
93.232.187.237
topic
08:10:56 AM Aug 5th 2010
I think it would be nice if the introduction already included a rough outline of what the show is actually about for those of us who don't know it. It's a bit tedious to collect information from characters and concepts throughout the page. One or two sentences of that would in my opinion be more important than an 18 month hiatus or similar stuff.
OldManHoOh
08:35:44 AM Aug 5th 2010
I see what you mean. Outside of the sections, the only really part that summarises what the show is about is

"Since its debut on 23 November 1963 on BBC television, the British scifi series Doctor Who (...) takes place in and established the Whoniverse, which has a very loose and lax continuity, even discounting the Doctor Who Expanded Universe."

Not sure how to approach it myself though.
vaguedisclaimer
02:39:21 PM Aug 31st 2010
Hope the addition does it for you.
Hawkeye^_^
topic
09:31:38 AM Jul 19th 2010
I've looked around and haven't found anything about this on the main page. Am I incorrect in thinking that it's inconsistent with what else we know of Cybermen for there to be a complete skull inside of one's head? I thought they just had brains in there.
Anaheyla
04:48:52 PM Jul 19th 2010
edited by Anaheyla
I asked that question when the episode first aired. It was suggested that that particular Cyberman was a rushjob, churned out because there wasn't time for a complete Cyberfication for whatever reason.
stardust_rain
topic
03:48:47 AM Jul 15th 2010
Should we add a Doctor Who subsection to the Foe Yay page? The examples are getting rather long. I posted there, but got no reply.
thetroper
topic
06:54:20 AM Jun 22nd 2010
Is there anyway to change the photo on themain page? I was thinking i would photoshop it ans put a huge crrack in it and change the text to silnece will fall....:)
94.9.179.3
topic
01:20:49 AM Jun 22nd 2010
edited by 94.9.179.3
Changed lines 680 from:
  • Reset Button: Used far too often in the newer seasons, though it has sometimes been used to tell stories that otherwise would not fit into the Doctor Who format ("Turn Left" and "Last of the Time Lords").
    • Hm. Only one other occasion in the new series springs to mind ("Father's Day") although Margaret Slitheen and Donna both get their own personal Reset Buttons.
to:
  • Reset Button: Sometimes used to tell stories that otherwise would not fit into the Doctor Who format ("Turn Left" and "Last of the Time Lords").
    • "Father's Day" is another use and Margaret Slitheen and Donna both get their own personal Reset Buttons.

Seriously? Are Reset Buttons used that often? You could argue for some of the endings being Dei Ex Machini (or whatever the plural for Deus ex Machina is), but hardly Reset Button.
Hadri
01:28:52 AM Jun 22nd 2010
RTD wasnt as obnoxious about reset buttons as later season of Star Trek could be, but it was used in every season finale except the first.

...however I don't really see how 'Turn Left' and 'The Last of the Time Lords' don't fit the format of the show. Perhaps the entry should be rewritten completely?

Dei ex machinae, fyi.
94.9.179.3
03:34:23 AM Jun 22nd 2010
edited by 94.9.179.3
No, it wasn't. That's my point. Only Last of the Time Lords (and in a very localised extent Journey's End If the cracks in time have undone it, it took eight episodes (Victory of the Daleks) for that to be apparent. And of course that's been reversed as of "The Big Bang" so...) counts. Doomsday, Journey's End (though the hand has existed since The Christmas Invasion and has been in the Doctor's possession since Utopia, and the Doctor Donna was loosely hinted at in Planet of the Ood, not to mention Rose's enigmatic statements of calling Donna "special") and The End of Time could arguably be called Dei ex machinae though.

Doomsday is not a reset button especially because the Doctor is alone (and still pining for Rose well into series 3), Torchwood, a then-128-year-old organisation is in tatters, and now only has Torchwood Three (at the time being Jack, Owen, Toshiko and Susie) left and hundreds, if not thousands of people on the ground are dead.
Hadri
04:29:20 AM Jun 22nd 2010
edited by Hadri
Okay, well, part of the problem is that Reset Button is defined more narrowly than it is in common usage - thus the disappointment of fans when Davies would write a finale with huge consequences that get undone by the end of the episode.

Must a Reset Button erase all changes to the status quo? For instance the Daleks killed a lot of people on Earth in the Stolen Earth, but this is treated mostly as irrelevant by the series after this, and the planets are returned to their proper places. Is that, by itself, still not a Reset Button?

Also, in the End of Time, Rassilon pressed the Reset Button on the Master's "become everyone on Earth" plan as soon as he showed up. So it definitely occurs in that episode, Rassilon isn't really a Deus ex Machina himself.

However, I'm not disagreeing with you, but I definitely am saying that I dont like either version of the entry. I think it needs more clarity.
Hadri
06:03:43 PM Jun 26th 2010
Well, inevitable spoilers for the finale.

Shooting the Pandorica into the exploding TARDIS re-creating the universe sure seems like a reset button to me.
94.9.179.3
05:48:41 PM Jun 27th 2010
edited by 94.9.179.3
Yeah, about that. This was written before "The Big Bang" aired. So currently I count series 3 and 5 (and probably The End of Time) as Reset Buttons, series 4 as very borderline, and series 1 and 2 not at all.
67.217.15.170
topic
11:43:25 PM Jun 21st 2010
Well if we're not going to get a better picture for all the Doctors other than "guys in squares on default white graphics program background", can we at least get an official photo for Matt Smith as the 11th Doctor?
Hadri
12:07:40 AM Jun 22nd 2010
I do think it's a little simple but it's also pretty effective. It is important that this page maintains a focus on the show as a whole rather than just the current series. The image adds to that.
67.217.15.170
08:54:15 AM Jun 23rd 2010
Alright. 11th Doc has a better picture now.
Robotech_Master
topic
11:33:58 PM Jun 19th 2010
edited by Robotech_Master
The "parking brake" thing was just a joke! Every other TARDIS seen in the show made that sound, as did the Doctor's TARDIS when River piloted it again (or previously) in "The Pandorica Opens". She can make it materialize without making the sound, yes, but I suspect it's more likely she's just that good than that the Doctor (and every other Time Lord to pilot a TARDIS) is just that bad.
Hadri
11:45:00 PM Jun 19th 2010
River flying the TARDIS resulted in the universe being destroyed yesterday.

Giving the gag some canonocity after all.
Gizensha
03:55:06 AM Apr 22nd 2011
To be fair, it's not just the sound... The Doctor is very, very bad at getting the TARDIS to where he wants it.
kaybet
07:25:17 AM Dec 11th 2013
The TARDIS goes where there is trouble, not just where the Doctor wants to go.
thetroper
topic
09:28:46 PM Jun 13th 2010
YES!!!!11! SOMEONE Finally changed the image of Matt Smith thxxx!!!
94.9.139.139
topic
05:34:37 PM May 29th 2010
edited by 94.9.139.139
Was "The Hungry Earth" and "Cold Blood" really an Idiot Plot?
Hadri
08:07:08 PM May 29th 2010
The contrivances weren't all the fault of the characters being stupid , but you could argue that.
thetroper
05:52:40 PM May 31st 2010
Well...
thetroper
08:19:31 AM Jun 3rd 2010
I agree with Hardi, but what ____ did was pretty stupid. ;)
94.9.139.139
08:51:31 AM Jun 3rd 2010
I don't get it. Are you guys speaking English?
94.9.139.139
02:01:30 PM Jun 3rd 2010
edited by 94.9.139.139
All I can very vaguely gather from that is that Ambrose was holding the Idiot Ball, maybe? I don't know, but that's still not justification for Idiot Plot (which applies to the whole cast).

Edited for spoilers.
Generality
02:45:36 PM Jun 3rd 2010
No spoilers for us Americans who haven't seen these episodes yet (The American airing is about three weeks behind).
thetroper
06:28:41 PM Jun 6th 2010
I AM American! I live in California!!!!
thetroper
topic
07:23:53 PM May 25th 2010
Yeah I hadn't seen Matt Smith before, looking at the photo here was my first time looking st him, and I was like "Wow he looks like a freak." But I was so wrong.
Hadri
07:46:06 PM May 25th 2010
His early look was pretty bad. It's very good that they went with something a lot more stylish.
thetroper
05:39:58 PM May 26th 2010
i guess so :)
Gizensha
03:53:03 AM Apr 22nd 2011
Given what he seems to wear in real life, and that he basically picked his own costume, we're lucky we didn't wind up with something as hideous as Six's technicoloured nightmare coat...
Anaheyla
topic
09:15:24 PM May 23rd 2010
edited by Anaheyla
So, I'm new to the series, having only seen two episodes, "Blink" and "The Girl In The Fireplace" and have noticed a recurring phrase(or pseudophrase)

The Doctor says something and then corrects himself twice, e.g. "Nah there's nothing here, WELL, nothing dangerous, WELL, nothing that dangerous." and "I've got something going on right now, WELL, four things, WELL, four things and a lizard." with a slightly drawn out emphasis on well.

Is this a recurring tendency? And if so why is it not listed as one of his catchphrases and/or a Running Gag. :hmm
Hadri
12:14:33 AM May 24th 2010
They're both consistent with David Tennant's sometimes unusual way of phrasing things. I can't recal any other examples in particular, but I can tell you that both those episodes were written by the same writer.

In any case, if we listed everything odd David Tennant did or said more than once during his run we'd be here all week.
Generality
04:28:43 PM May 24th 2010
He does it well in "The Unicorn and the Wasp" with regard to Agatha Christie: "You fool me every time. WELL, most of the time, WELL, once or twice, WELL, once. But it was a good once." Ten has a habit of Verbal Backspacing, especially in situations where he needs to talk fast. More a Verbal Tic than a real catch phrase (and he has TONS of those).
Gizensha
03:51:33 AM Apr 22nd 2011
Yeah, no more a catchphrase than Mc Gann's Doctor's tendency of repeating small words multiple times when in a hurry and/or panicing. "Nononononono!" from the television movie stands out, but the books and comics both picked up on that, and he continued it in the audios.
90.221.125.63
topic
01:47:03 PM Apr 17th 2010
edited by 94.8.126.205
Would the Peter Cushing movies count as Non-Serial Movie?
VorelLaraek
02:11:58 PM Nov 2nd 2010
Not really. They take the basic concept in another direction, contradicting most prior established facts - not just later ones. Non Serial Movies aren't canon, but could be (until the next episode airs, at least). The Cushing movies aren't even that.

There probably is a trope they fit into, though.
Gizensha
03:48:52 AM Apr 22nd 2011
edited by Gizensha
They're possibly Pragmatic Adaptations of the first two Dalek serials (rather than the series as a whole)
TheOneWhoTropes
topic
06:58:04 PM Apr 4th 2010
Is there a time traveller or time travel effect in place on the website? "Vampires of Venice" has not been on telly yet! ("The Eleventh Hour" has and I just realised it's a Stealth Pun.)
voodoochild
07:24:47 PM Apr 4th 2010
And none of the entries for it are spoiler-cut! Give away the plot if you must, but some of us in other parts of the world will not be seeing it for a while.
MsShaw
07:27:20 PM Apr 4th 2010
Clips of it have been released via publicity shows and naturally the internet shortly after.
JurassicMosquito
05:33:39 AM Apr 17th 2010
Yeah, "Vampires of Venice" hasn't even aired in the UK at the time of this writing and won't for a few weeks. Unless the folks troping on it are BBC insiders, or it's being released sooner in countries outside of the UK than it is in its own home nation (which I strongly doubt), then the tropes on it are semi-educated guesses made based on teasers and trailers.
BLOODPOUCH
08:51:04 PM Apr 21st 2010
A 1:30 minute excerpt of the episode was released online.
thetroper
05:52:12 PM May 31st 2010
in america, the episodes air 1 episode after the one airing in britan.
thetroper
08:15:02 AM Jun 3rd 2010
So, since I'm in America, I've already seen "Cold Blood."
TheOneWhoTropes
topic
06:37:52 PM Apr 4th 2010
Unofficially, Nine has been played by 3 people - An American in a bootleg film (when they thought it would never restart), Christopher Eccleston, and Richard E. Grant in one of the Flash videos on the BBC website.
94.2.177.192
03:19:58 PM Apr 5th 2010
edited by 94.2.212.203
...and Rowan Atkinson in "The Curse Of Fatal Death", the 1999 Comic Relief special, written by one Steven Moffat. Two BBC-licensed, non-canon appearances and Chris.
MrCleaverhook
07:51:23 AM Apr 15th 2010
American bootleg? I've never heard of this, got any more info on that?
robinalaska
05:05:52 PM Apr 16th 2010
I don't know about any specific American bootleg (as far as I can tell there were dozens of fanfilms made during the wilderness years), but there was an addition ninth Doctor in the form of Rowan Atkinson in Stephen Moffat's 1999 Children of Need sketch, Curse of the Fatal Death. In this same story there were also a tenth Doctor played by Richard E. Grant (before Scream of the Shalka), an eleventh by Jim Broadbent, a twelfth by Hugh Grant, and a thirteenth by Joanna Lumley. Yes, a woman.
90.221.125.63
01:45:33 PM Apr 17th 2010
edited by 90.221.125.63
And of course, Eccleston IS official. Or was that just a slip of the tongue?
PurpleBouncyBall
12:35:35 PM Aug 26th 2010
No, unofficially there were three (or four or whatever) Ninth Doctors. Officially, there's one. All depends on your point of view. Lots of things work that way.
Michael
topic
06:37:23 PM Apr 3rd 2010
Is there a trope for the fact that there was a lot of hype surrounding Amy's police uniform which turns out to have just been a costume she threw on to intimidate the strange man who broke into her house?
Ayries
05:11:22 AM Apr 4th 2010
I... feel like there should be, but I don't think there is?
94.2.177.192
07:12:44 AM Apr 4th 2010
Fanservice?
74.77.238.3
07:22:42 PM Apr 12th 2010
Ayries
06:31:45 AM Apr 17th 2010
Nah, that's for actual cops. This is for someone who isn't...
Ingonyama
topic
08:36:10 AM Mar 19th 2010
edited by Ingonyama
Just wondering...because the list of tropes is so long for this show, would it be easier on readers' eyes to split the list between the Old and New series? Or would it make a difference? I know several tropes appear in both shows, after all...
SilentHunter
11:38:14 AM Mar 19th 2010
edited by SilentHunter
A lot appear in both eras, so we can't really split it.

Also, some would consider it one show.
118.210.26.13
07:25:26 AM May 5th 2010
Perhaps the list could be split somehow differently:

Tropes from all of DW Tropes unique to classic tropes unique to new

or something like that?
violettglass
03:52:32 PM Jun 28th 2010
I wouldn't want to see it split up, it is canonically the same show.
kipperonthefloor
07:43:50 AM Sep 22nd 2010
edited by kipperonthefloor
How about just put it in Alphabetical folders?
OldManHoOh
08:37:59 AM Sep 22nd 2010
Hmm, maybe. I don't think the page itself needs splitting.
86.177.46.231
topic
01:09:07 PM Mar 13th 2010
Can we please get a better image of Matt Smith in the compilation? It's pixellated to Hell and back, and he looks like he's wearing lipstick.
PhantomCobra
07:53:49 PM Dec 26th 2010
For that matter, is there a better picture of David Tennant? The current one really doesn't do him justice.
OldManHoOh
08:02:50 PM Dec 26th 2010
True. I recall that's one of the early photos. No idea who actually makes these images though.
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