Recap My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic S 2 E 9 Sweet And Elite Discussion

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02:55:57 PM Apr 13th 2012
Am I the only one that noticed that it's Luna (In her traditional royal voice) that's announcing the Derby? Would that count as a Cameo,or a Call Back to Luna Eclipsed, or both?
06:06:09 PM Aug 29th 2012
Or is it just Tabitha St. Germain's natural yelling voice?
11:28:41 AM Dec 9th 2011
Could we stop trying to add the "several Doctors" as a Shout-Out. First off the whole Doctor Whooves thing is entirely fan driven and created in the first place.

Second I've seen the image used as evidence used several times and its ponies are very dubious. Namely its using carefully selected images to make itself work. A casual check of Google Images and one finds an array of outfits for the 11th and 3rd Doctors for example, so a top hat and red jacket are not indicative just from one shot. Yes the 11th Doctor does iconiclly wear bowties, but its a classic item well beyond him. In all cases the hair is quite different taken on its own. Heck the "3rd Doctor" pony uses the same model as "Pokey Pierce" with a different cutie mark.

In short this is Sharpshoot Fallacy work. Taking "Hourglass=Doctor" as the result and working backward from there until it finds something to make it work.

Keep in mind Doctor Whooves is a fan meme first, the connection with David Tennant's Ten is coincidence. The pony in question just recycles "Colgate's" cutie mark who notably appeared first and while not unnconnected its after the fact and she has at least equal identity as Colgate as "Romana" to her. Its not a Shout-Out so the basic "Hourglass=Doctor" doesn't add up.

In conclusion this does not show enough grounds to be labelled a Shout-Out without some kind of corroboration. We can note what fans are doing with what they find sure, but that is Memetic Mutation and belongs in different places.
08:51:17 PM Dec 9th 2011
If so, then we'll have to delete some of the other shout outs as well. None of the other entries have proof that they're truly references, they just say they look that way. For example, one entry said that the airship looked like the Windfish from The Legend of Zelda, but it could be a coincidence as well. I think all shout outs should have sources from the writers themselves before they are submitted. I'd be happy to delete the Dr. Who reference, but since NOBODY'S got solid evidence that their entries are truly shout outs, and are just putting them there because it "looks" that way, I don't think it's fair to just delete the Dr. Who entry and leave all others up there. I at least had a picture to support my case, but if the writers deny it, then it can be taken down.
09:51:42 PM Dec 9th 2011
edited by ArfArkFace
You ask the crew if something was a reference to something or not, they'll just say "it's a coincidence" to avoid copyright issues unless it's blatantly obvious. We will never know for sure at this rate.

There's also the factor that some animators put their own thing into the cartoon without the higher up's knowledge (this was referenced in Jayson Thiessen's interview in Equestria Daily) especially if it involves the lower priority background ponies (An animator's OC known as "Holly Dash" also known as her Fan Nickname: "Tutti Frutti" is a prime example of this).
11:59:33 PM Dec 11th 2011
edited by gs
Its not about evidence for every Shout-Out. Its that Shout-Out isn't supposed to be ambiguous. Something either is or it isn't:

The Star Wars ceremony from Return of Harmony is not ambiguous you can draw over half a dozen parallels in one single single scene, its practically shot of shot right down to the wipe.

"Friendly Neighborhood Rainbow Dash" is not ambiguous, its direct use of a catchphrase from one of the most popular superheroes in a superhero episode.

The crossed double horseshoes in this episode are another, a designer brand when Rarity is out buying designer material is no with ambiguity a stand in for Coco Chanel's famous crossed Cs.

Putting different ponies that did not appear together together and are only connected with a common cutie with selective shots of their supposed inspirations does not compare to the connection showed by this and numerous other incidences within the show. As I said it smacks of the Sharpshooter Fallacy, taking the random result then carefully painting the bullseye in to make it look genius. A good example of showing intent would be say having 11 ponies with an hourglass walking by in order with appropriate appearances. Or having one with a certain notable scarf or horrific coat.

Without there being obvious intent it isn't a Shout-Out, because that isn't for chance resemblances. HERE and here only is where corroborating evidence comes into play, because if we know it was intentional then it solves it.

And the Windfish one... checked it and it doesn't cut it either. So I'll delete the both.
01:20:37 PM Dec 5th 2011
Oh yeah, what about the way the Canterlot elite is portrayed? I mean, it's not exactly Affectionate Parody, but isn't there a trope for stereotypic portrayal of the upper crust?

Plus, everyone speaks with a worse fake accent than Rarity.
03:36:06 PM Dec 5th 2011
A lot of subtropes from Idle Rich come into play in this episode; I think Fancypants is already covered under Uncle Pennybags but other ponies resemble Upper-Class Twit and other less flattering subtropes.

The accents all seem exaggerated in this episode, either posh or Tidewater. I'm tempted to write that off as I Am Very British (except it's not really Britain, it's Canterlot) but perhaps there is a better trope that exemplifies it.
01:14:35 PM Dec 5th 2011
During the garden party chaos, an unfortunate mare has her wig blown off, making it awkward for the guy she's talking to; what's the trope for that? there has to be one!
04:11:09 PM Dec 5th 2011
Not sure if there is a name for something so specific... perhaps a Funny Background Event? But it's not in the background.
11:24:44 AM Dec 5th 2011
I think we should add "Getting Crap Past the Radar"; that was an awfully realistic bottle of champagne in that scene with the airship.
03:26:29 PM Dec 5th 2011
Debatable. It is certainly used in the same context as champagne is in christening a real ship, and the dimensions of the bottle seem right besides being a little thick from the neck down, but the same could be achieved with a bottle of sparkling grape juice or sparkling cider, which come in similar bottles. Or perhaps I'm missing something...
11:45:31 AM Dec 4th 2011
Apparently, Twilight being Celestia's *personal student*, and being close enough to her to go in for HUGZ, knowing (and having been responsible for saving) Luna, and Rainbow Dash doing Sonic Rainbooms for *kicks* and being handpicked by Celestia as the winner of the Best Young Flyer competition doesn't mean anything in Canterlot.
12:27:21 AM Dec 5th 2011
I'm guessing these Canterlot ponies are quite isolated from the rest of society by choice; many of the ponies we see are very elitist and blindly follow anypony with more importance than them while ignoring everypony else. It's likely the entire town regards the rest of the country with disdain, and news from Ponyville doesn't make it to Canterlot as a result. I wouldn't be surprised if nopony in Canterlot even knew what a Sonic Rainboom was, since Rainbow Dash is the only pony that has done it. Same for the Best Young Flyer competition; how many unicorns did you see in Cloudsdale? And Luna? If she took that long to come to Ponyville and re-establish connections, I can't begin to imagine how she would integrate with Canterlot society. She would be chased out in seconds.

tl;dr Stuffy elitist ponies are stuffy elitists.
11:38:03 AM Dec 4th 2011
I've seen a bit of talk about this on the YMMV page, but I'd like to raise the idea that this might take place before the first season finale; none of the upper-class ponies recognize Rarity despite her freaking out at Blueblood in a crowded hall. And speaking of Blueblood, the two of them seem okay standing next to each other during the christening of the airship, even though they would probably run for the hills if they ever saw each other again. Perhaps they made amends offscreen somehow?
11:40:26 AM Dec 4th 2011
If it occurred before the first season finale, wouldn't she be squeeing over him?
12:13:20 AM Dec 5th 2011
Good point. The first season finale also heavily implies that night was the first time they met. However, there isn't really a reaction between them at all. I guess that could be attributed to the fact that it was in the middle of the song. Twilight mentions the Grand Galloping Gala is coming up, so new theory; this takes place almost a year after the first season finale. The first season had episodes that weren't necessarily in chronological order, so perhaps at some point we'll see Rarity and Blueblood meet again to make up. I can't say I'm rooting for Blueblood though.
10:36:26 AM Dec 4th 2011
Could the Wonderbolts' derby count as Furry Confusion? I mean, they're presumably stunt fliers. They're celebrities, and of course, we can't forget how much Rainbow wants to be a part of them.

But... In this episode, they were part of a horse-racing derby with ponies "rooting" on them, and speaking of them just as a person in our world would speak of a racehorse. What's more, they're seemingly racing within their own team I mean, really? Rainbow wants to be a part of that?
10:48:58 AM Dec 4th 2011
One could counter argue the humans race too. We may not bet on the results of the Boston Marathon or Tour de France (well I'm sure someone out there does.. but anyways) but but the commentary isn't particular to horses. Another example would be the Olympics with track and field.

Reminds me we should put a Shout-Out to the Kentucky Derby in there though.
11:23:33 AM Dec 4th 2011
The key would probably lie in how this race is organized; if the Wonderbolts are in control of the race and organize it themselves, I would say there's no confusion. But say the more upper-class ponies are in control of the derby and it's required for Wonderbolts to race; then you might have a case. Regardless, we don't see enough of the Wonderbolts to see how they are treated in the race. The only thing that would make it sure-fire Furry Confusion is if ponies were riding the Wonderbolts around the track.
08:25:33 AM Dec 4th 2011
Is there an official parsing for the country bumpkin's name? It's written as both "Turnip Truck" and "Turnip-Truck" in the article, and it could even be one word, "Turniptruck", just to separate it better from his first name of Hayseed.
10:13:40 AM Dec 4th 2011
edited by gs
It is "Hayseed Turnip Truck" from Nayuki one of the layout artists.

[Nayuki] 8:32 am: pony names from this episode: Jet Set, Upper Crust, Hayseed Turnip Truck, Fancypants, Rapidfire, Fleetfoot. Source
03:06:13 PM Dec 3rd 2011
Does the horse race scene really qualify as Getting Crap Past the Radar? Horse race gambling is 100% legal last time I checked, so it's not like it would be on the list of crap the radar is supposed to pick up
03:28:48 PM Dec 3rd 2011
Gambling is legal depending on where you live, but minors are usually banned due to the possibility of a psychological addiction. For example, many US state laws prohibit anyone under 18 from purchasing or redeeming state lottery tickets, daily or instant. It is therefore regarded as an adult activity.
03:51:37 PM Dec 3rd 2011
edited by Totality
I don't think so.

The entry itself seems to be rather strange. It claims to suggest gambling is past the radar but with the * text on the quote "Yeah, sure. Rooting." The way 'rooting' is emphasised seems to suggest a problem with that word, in which it has completely different connotations in Australia (according to Urban Dictionary). Considering the animators aren't based there, I doubt it crossed their minds.
04:03:12 PM Dec 3rd 2011
@OmniSonic What I actually find strange is that the subject of gambling in general would fall under Getting Crap Past the Radar in the first place. We've seen gambling everywhere from Sonic the Hedgehog (Casino Night Zone) to Spongebob (Krabs and Plankton playing poker) and it's never been a Radar Target before
06:42:02 PM Dec 3rd 2011
edited by OmniSonic
Ah, I see. The Sonic example isn't really gambling though; in levels of that nature you don't put any offers up to bet, you simply get a bonus or penalty of rings while entering slots so it's just a luck-based event. More to the point, I'm not sure about this episode's parallel to gambling itself; no wager is ever mentioned, nor a prize, and people can root for horses with perfect innocence, so if anyone gets gambling from that I believe it's a YMMV.

EDIT: Also, with regards to gambling being a radar event, I don't think it's really "past the radar" if the show is blatant about it like Spongebob was. Plus kids start gambling with small amounts fairly early, the only reason to have gambling on the radar is if it has an obvious connection to an adult method, like real casino activities, lotteries or horse betting.
01:33:06 AM Dec 4th 2011
Celadon Game Corner. That's pretty blatant.
09:05:58 AM Dec 4th 2011
Indeed. Pokemon very clearly has in-game gambling, going all the way back to Red/Blue versions. As far as the ESRB goes, from what I can gather they don't have too much of a problem with gambling if it doesn't take up a majority of the gameplay and it is strictly located in-game. Peak Entertainment Casinos is the only game currently rated Adults Only without having strong sexual content, since it features real gambling. They have Simulated Gambling as a factor but that is not as mature a factor.
08:37:34 AM Dec 13th 2011
Besides, considering we're talking about equines, a horse race would be comparable to a track meet for humans.
08:55:43 AM Dec 3rd 2011
I don't think the current use of Morality Pet is appropriate. However, is there a trope that does describe Opal's behavior in the episode? It seems like there should be.
11:21:40 AM Dec 3rd 2011
Morality Pet is not exclusively a pet trope and this isn't really a villian/anti-hero situation. Opal here is acting fairly normally as her Empathy Pet role for Rarity (she's listed on that trope page) reminding Rarity of her real passions rather then acting as some kind pet holding her owner back by her existence.

I'd list the latter with the particular incident here before the former.
11:26:53 AM Dec 3rd 2011
Perhaps Opal would be a Non-Pony Sidekick for this episode?
08:41:25 AM Dec 3rd 2011
wat. The history page claims I made changes i never made O.o lol
08:54:55 AM Dec 3rd 2011
edited by BornIn1142
Yeah, I don't actually have anything to say, I just replied to this topic instead of creating a new topic on accident and am now editing it because I have no idea how to delete it.
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