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neoYTPism
topic
08:50:04 AM Dec 5th 2010
I switched from the dead hand to redeads, and it got reverted because dead hands are creepier. If you ask me the dead hands look vaguely comical, whereas the redeads look unambiguously creepy. I guess the question here ought to be what style of image we're going for...
AndyLA
topic
09:37:19 AM Nov 16th 2010
I just wanna ask a question (rather, two in one).

Which game in the series is the page picture from, and when does it happen?

It's recognizably from a N64 game, but I haven't played through Majora's Mask yet and don't recall seeing that scene in Ocarina of Time.
owh
01:59:15 PM Nov 16th 2010
It's a Majora's Mask thing. There's an ability to make what are basically clones of yourself depending on which mask you're wearing. If you're not wearing a mask, your clone is that.. thing.

The most common acceptance of it is that it's Shigeru Miyamoto's facial features cartoonized and placed on a Link body, but It's Uncanny Valley enough to freak people out and of course Ben Drowned emphasized it for all that it's worth.
SomeSortOfTroper
topic
03:08:21 PM Apr 27th 2010
Clear up of Nightmare Fuel pages

I did this one ages ago but I forgot a permanent note. Here it is:

Clean up of Nightmare Fuel, currently ongoing (cf discussion) The page says and has always said it has to be unintentional and to be targetted to kids. The use of the trope namer was to emphasise that point.

"This trope is named after the phrase "Good Old-Fashioned Nightmare Fuel", used by Mike and the 'bots at least three times in Mystery Science Theater 3000 to describe trauma-inducing sights and objects in films that appeared by design to be originally intended for children."

Three criteria:
  • For kids
  • unintentional
  • gives nightmares

That's not a lot of criteria for a trope, they're simple and if people want their "crowning moment of scary"-ish page that's what the High Octane Nightmare Fuel was made for.

So hey, thanks for putting all those ReDead examples back in, because obviously the rape zombies weren't meant to be scary.
SomeSortOfTroper
03:22:32 PM Apr 27th 2010
So let's see, what do I remember shouldn't be in there: the redeads, the wallmasters, pretty much everything from Majora's Mask, all the dark creepy levels- intentional people, way way way intentional.

The "List everything connected to a phobia" section misses the point. You shouldn't just list everything with a tint of horror. It's got to be how something unintentional went horribly wrong. Not to forget, it's also a list that duplicates a huge chunk of the page. Also, there's a huge number of This Troper edits going on. The managed managed to be rid of it for a while and now, quite frankly, I want to cry.
areneeb123
12:42:33 AM Apr 30th 2010
Look, I agree that the page is a mess, but I really don't think you should just cut a bajillion examples, since that's what happened last time and people just ended up adding them all back over time. Last time you cut a ton of the page and didn't try to reorganize them at all. And please don't be sarcastic, it was ages ago that you cut that stuff, people forget, and besides, Nightmare Fuel is subjective, so even if it has a "tint of horror" it's still Nightmare Fuel to someone.

I have an idea. I think that we should go through the Zelda Nightmare Fuel and High Octane Nightmare Fuel, and sort stuff out. I say that everything from Twilight Princess (rated T), Ocarina of Time, and Majora's Mask goes into High Octane, while everything else goes into regular. Stuff like the obvious horror monsters, Redeads, Skulltulas, etc, should go into High Octane, stuff like Peahats go in regular. Since a bunch of the stuff in the current High Octane page is just repeats of the regular Nightmare fuel page. If we took examples from both pages and put them back into the correct sections it would solve a lot of problems. I don't think that deleting months of people's contributions is the right way to do it.
areneeb123
12:45:07 AM Apr 30th 2010
Also, another thing. I don't really get the "unintentional" thing. Because we don't really know unless we go up to the person and ask "Hey did you mean for this song to be scary?". Or what if something is for kids, but was intentionally scary? Or if its unintentionally scary but for adults?

Just a problem I have with the actual trope definition.
otaku9000
02:53:02 PM Sep 11th 2010
Hey, anybody seen this yet? I know it's not officially part of the game but here's the whole story if you'd like to see it: http://inuscreepystuff.blogspot.com/2010/09/majora.html Of course the entire story is suspect but....
Leoganado
topic
04:16:36 AM Apr 27th 2010
Um why is there both a High octane nightmare fuel AND a nightmare fuel page? And Nightmare feul page was first. Seriously, I believe some guy just wanted to make Nintendo games feel more scary or something since 2 for the SAME PAGE?? I mean, some examples from the NF page is also on the Honf page! I think the HONF page should be moved back into NF page but I don't know how to do that and if its ok or not. A Ny help?
86.174.160.227
04:27:34 AM Apr 27th 2010
Exactly right. It's a kids franchise, it doesn't need a HO page.
SomeGuy
11:29:18 AM Apr 27th 2010
Agreed on all points. This has been nominated for Cut List.
Marioguy128
01:59:02 PM Apr 27th 2010
Probably because there's some games not meant for kids. Will move to nightmare fuel page though.
Leoganado
02:28:42 PM Apr 27th 2010
yeah thanks guys. what Im arguing is 2 PAGES for the SAME GAME. Doesn't make any sense if you think about it. Some of the examples even CAME from the original NF page.
SomeSortOfTroper
03:04:43 PM Apr 27th 2010
Don't don't for the love of god don't just move everything to Nightmare Fuel. Nightmare Fuel has a definition as well and I already went through clearing out the examples that broke it ages ago. We talked about it, we stuck to it, we cleared up a load of pages.
SomeGuy
05:20:11 PM Apr 27th 2010
edited by SomeGuy
Some Sort Of Troper, I've reviewed the data from your posts in The Legend of Zelda and the forum thread therein, and I think we need some clarifications here. The pages for Nightmare Fuel and High Octane Nightmare Fuel very clearly imply that the former is supposed to be scary stuff intended for children, whereas the latter is not. If these are not the simple definitions, than those pages should be re-written to give us clearer guidelines, because as stands I can't parse what it is about the examples on this page that make them completely unsuitable for Nightmare Fuel.
SomeSortOfTroper
11:20:52 PM Apr 27th 2010
In short, if a work
  • was intended for children or a general family audience
  • not intended to be scary to children
  • that turned out to be scary to children anyway

That's from the Nightmare Fuel definition. They don't clearly imply anything, they outright state that it is stuff, intended for children, not intended to be scary that ended up so. The examples from this page are things created to be intentionally disturbing or frightening. I don't see what's difficult to get about that.
Leoganado
07:10:56 AM Apr 28th 2010
Then there must be ANOTHER trope for things ONLY intended to be scary for ONLY children. and ANOTHER trope that says Scary things that isn't intended to frighten ADULTS but does so anyways. Such a "High child nightmare fuel" or "nightmare octane fuel"
SomeSortOfTroper
08:33:12 AM Apr 28th 2010
Not necessarily. Nightmare Fuel can work as a page because it is a recurring type of flaw where something appears in a place where it really really shouldn't and one that shows often become famed for. High Octane Nightmare Fuel works (barely) as a supertrope for "get in your head and make the lizard brain scream" kind of horror.

Just scaring people, or just making any emotion (laughing, crying,etc), isn't a trope, instead its the end goal of the Horror Tropes, Comedy Tropes, Drama Tropes and so on.
SomeSortOfTroper
08:46:43 AM Apr 28th 2010
Hmm, we seem to be talking about something other than this particular page's merits though. It should come down to "Does this work fit the criterion of High Octane Nightmare Fuel?"

Well there was discussion over the last time the entire High Octane Nightmare Fuel page was set to be cut. In that discussion, the end result was "certain fears that could scare adults as well as kids, not limited to whether the media was aimed at kids or adults. " I'd need to see some serious discussion and consensus to not hold to that before cutting.
SomeGuy
03:42:39 PM Apr 28th 2010
If there's no limit then why does the High Octane Nightmare Fuel page clearly state "not intended specifically for children"? That's the exact opposite of the sentiment you just expressed.
Leoganado
10:05:51 AM Apr 29th 2010
Well, thats the Honf PAGE. This is just legend of zelda which doesn't nesccarily scare adults. Still, if this page stays, then the entire NF page should be moved here. If not, this page, should be moved to Nf. (Most of the examples are already on the nf page anyways.
Leoganado
10:07:43 AM Apr 29th 2010
And why did some guy just remake this page after it was cutlisted??
Leoganado
10:15:15 AM Apr 29th 2010
And this does NOT fit with the high octane nightmare fuel due to many things. No adult fear, (I would know), there is no really bad body horror. Theres practically nothing that would equal "high octane" There are corpses yes, but they were not meant to be too scary, as some even dance and in some games they are the weakest enemy. There is no really horrific transformations, more like just plain rated E, at most rated e 10+ transformtion that is pretty mild. So doesn't fit honf. every single media has things that are "meant" to be scary. Every halloween special, even Spongebob and Dora has things meant to scare people for their age. Legend of Zelda is meant to be rather scary, but only to children and also does not fit the qualifictaions for HONF thus is not meant to be Honf.
areneeb123
12:42:04 PM Apr 30th 2010
edited by areneeb123
I had an idea. Since so many things are being cut from the Nightmare Fuel page for being intentional and not for kids, how about we sort out both the HONF page the NF page, and redistribute the examples? Here's what I thought would work:

areneeb123
12:43:36 PM Apr 30th 2010
High Octane: -Anything from Twilight Princess (rated T). -Anything from Majora's Mask (pretty sure all of that was intentional, and it's definitely scary to adults. -Anything about monsters that are obviously meant to be horror monsters, such as redeads, skulltulas, gibdos, etc. -Anything that has to do with Oot's Shadow Temple. The entire theme of it was horror, so it was definitely intentional. And it still scares me today. -Same deal with the Earth Temple from WW. That was a similarly themed temple, so intentional.

Regular Nightmare Fuel: -Any monsters that don't have particularly scary designs, such as Peahats, but still scare people. -Anything from the 'cel shaded' style of games. Those were definitely more kid-aimed. -Anything from the 2D games.
areneeb123
12:43:51 PM Apr 30th 2010
So I know that it doesn't really fit the definition that well, but I think it would be better to at least have the examples somewhere, rather than just deleting months of people's work for nothing. Some Sort Of Troper keeps deleting entries, saying that they don't fit Nightmare Fuel, but then he doesn't move them to High Octane or anywhere else, just deletes them outright.

Regardless of whether you don't think they are scary, somebody found them scary, and they deserve to exist here. Isn't that the point of a wiki, to share ideas knowledge with others? Even if the games don't have tons of blood, gore, and body horror, some parts were still truly terrifying due to atmosphere, sound, and surprises.

I don't believe that the Zelda series is only targeted towards children anymore. Otherwise, why would TP be rated T? Nintendo knows that it has a massive adult fanbase, so I think that they also target them as well. I actually know very few children that play Zelda. Anyways, it would be a ton of work, but if others agree with me I'd be willing to organize everything myself. I don't want for all of the interesting examples to just be stripped out the the main Nightmare Fuel page, and lost forever.
Leoganado
01:51:12 PM Apr 30th 2010
Not really. Then would Spongebob, Dora, and Mario have high octane nightmare fuel? Since they have things that are intentionally scary. Yes even dora. Sniper the fox can be EXTREMY scary in some episodes due to his pedophile nature if you put in Fridge Logic.
areneeb123
04:45:58 PM Apr 30th 2010
Well then were should we put the hundreds of examples that Some Sort Of Troper is deleting? Like I said, those are months of people's work and opinions, and just deleting all of that work because "it doesn't fit the definition" is unfair to me. If they are being deleted off that page for being intentional, then they should be on this one. I wish he had left the whole thing alone really, he's just been cutting hundreds of examples from various pages. I mean, it makes everything neater, but the whole point in reading the Nightmare Fuel pages is to find out what people think is scary.
areneeb123
04:51:32 PM Apr 30th 2010
edited by areneeb123
The whole High Octane/Regular Nightmare Fuel, is stupid. The standards make absolutely no sense.
  • was intended for children or a general family audience
  • not intended to be scary to children
  • that turned out to be scary to children anyway
But what if it only fits one category? What if it was not intended for children, but was also unintentionally scary? What if it was for children but intentionally scary? Urg.

Also, my point isn't that Zelda is High Octane Nightmare Fuel, it's that we should move the examples to this page that Some Sort Of Troper is cutting because he says that it belongs in High Octane Nightmare Fuel, yet he actually never moves them himself. Just deletes them.

If there was some sort of middle ground, like intentionally scary and for kids, that would be awesome. But there's not, and Zelda only fits the intentionally scary parts, which you say keeps it from being High Octane, but Some Sort Of Troper says keeps it from being Regular Nightmare Fuel.

Besides, there are pages for things that don't seem to be High Octane at all. If we can have a High Octane Final Fantasy, Castlevania, Harry Potter, and Naruto pages, why can't we have a High Octane Zelda page?
Leoganado
05:36:22 AM May 1st 2010
I know. I want THOSE to be cutted too areneeb123. But the best solution is to make 2 more pages, like the 2 I mentioned above. Finally, months of hard work? People likes to delete half of a lot of pages because they contain Natter, and some of it even isn't!
areneeb123
11:56:37 AM May 1st 2010
Alright, whatever, I'll stay out of it. Do what you want.
Leoganado
06:05:45 PM May 1st 2010
I Can't do whatever I want. My sister got blocked for that very thing, and I'm still a n00b who doesn't understand the rules. I can only argue my case and hope someone more action and who agrees with me can change it to what its supposed to be
Leoganado
01:35:21 PM May 5th 2010
And areneeb, don't insult Some sort of troper, hes a staff member so who respect all right?
Leoganado
01:35:32 PM May 5th 2010
I mean show respect/
areneeb123
06:36:57 PM May 10th 2010
I didn't say anything bad about him, I didn't insult him or call him anything, I just stated the fact that he's cutting a lot and not putting it anywhere. Are you going to say that he didn't do that?
Leoganado
11:58:31 AM May 11th 2010
No, I don't care WHAT you do to him. What i'm saying is that if you piss him off, he can ban you if he wants to
areneeb123
04:15:43 PM May 12th 2010
Well that's sweet of him. I think the stuff that was cut from Nightmare Fuel for being High Octane Nightmare Fuel should logically go on the High Octane Nightmare Fuel page, but since apparently that's wrong I guess I'll just give up. This is just gonna happen again in a few months like it did last time, people will just re-add things.
SomeGuy
04:26:38 PM May 12th 2010
Um, that's actually not true. Some Sort Of Troper is a Cut Master. He only has the authority to create red links and moderate in the forums. He can't ban you in any meaningful way on the wiki proper. Only an Admin can do that.

This isn't to say, of course, that you should be rude to him, though since he's ignored this discussion for some time it's not like you're going to hurt his feelings. In any event, you should start a thread on Wiki Talk if you want to discuss appropriate Cut Master protocol. This isn't really the place for that.
Leoganado
05:39:20 PM May 12th 2010
Well, I dont' know.
ZYL5_
topic
10:51:20 AM Apr 20th 2010
edited by ZYL5_
Skulltulas are the reason This Troper has arachnophobia.

Thank you, Nintendo.
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