Discussion Monster / AnimeAndManga

Linking to a past Trope Repair Shop thread that dealt with this page: Merge low-content Anime CM subpages with main page, started by Shaoken on Jan 21st 2012 at 7:13:43 AM

I think Faust from Fairy Tail should be removed, because despite all the cruelty he displayed, in the end after being beaten by the Dragon Slayers, he showed a kinder side to him and appeared to have remorse for his actions.

Why isn't Ghetsis on here? He basically cared about nothing except himself including his own son and used him as basically a puppet, manipulated him into doing something he didn't like, his actions were 100% taken seriously and he never had any tragedy unlike Lusamine and then he has the breakdown later after his Sanity Slippage in Pokemon Black and White 2 where he tries to kill you and his son without any regards at all and freezes Unova.

That's pretty vile of a villain. EDIT: You can move this conversation to the Video Game index of this trope or delete this. I want mention of this as he is pretty vile but it's not in the right section.

I am thinking of adding Jiemma from Fairy Tail as a Complete Monster.He in the series is nothing more but abusive towards his guild and even to his daughter. He even joined Tartarus, a guild of demons, just to get stronger and was planning to usurp Mard Geer, showing his ungratefulness.

I'm planning on adding a Complete Monster page for Sword Art Online, since it has 3 examples (a separate Complete Monster page needs to have at least 3).

• Fairy Dance: Suguo Nobuyuki (Oberon the Fairy King) is the director of research and development at RECTO Progress Incorporated, and the one-time fiance of female lead, Asuna Yuuki. He was also completely obsessed with research into the manipulation of human emotion. Following the clearing of Sword Art Online, Suguo trapped three hundred of the surviving players in his own game, Alfheim Online, where he ran experiments on their minds, testing their fear and pain responses. Kidnapping Asuna in the game, he keeps her trapped in a gilded cage at the top of Alfheim's World Tree, while plotting to wed the comatose girl in the real world. When Kirito reaches the top of the World Tree, Suguo uses his administrator abilities to paralyze him, tortures him, and then sexually assaults Asuna in front of him, gloating the entire time about how, once he's freed, he will rape her again in real life. When the plan fails, he attempts to kill Kirito in the real world, attacking him with a knife. In the context of the story, Suguo is as bad as SAO's villains get.
• Phantom Bullet:
  • Red Eyed XaXa (real name: Shoichi Shinkawa) is one of the top members of the Laughing Coffin Guild in SAO, and the Guild's Master Swordsman. During the Murder Investigation Arc in SAO, XaXa, alongside PoH and Johnny Black, ambushed and attempted to murder players Caynz, Yolko, and Schmitt; when Kirito intervened, the trio also tried to kill him. After making his way back to the real world, XaXa, bored, and seeking a way to kill again, took advantage of his younger brother Kyoji's fragile mental state, to convince Kyoji to create the online persona of Sterben/Death Gun in Gun Gale Online, ultimately hijacking Kyoji's desire to be "the strongest" for his own ends. Using Kyoji, and his old partner Johnny Black as aides, the psychotic XaXa was able to arrange the murders of players Zekushiido, Usujio Tarako, Pale Rider, and Garret, before sending Kyoji to murder his own crush, Shino Asada. A sadist at heart, XaXa makes a point of crippling his opponents' avatars with a paralyzing toxin before delivering the coup de grace, and during his Sword Fight with Kirito in GGO does his best to cut him to ribbons, mocking him the entire time.
  • Johnny Black (real name: Atsushi Kanemoto) is another top member of the Laughing Coffin Guild. As the Guild's Master Poisoner, Johnny came up with a way to paralyze opponents so that they could then be tortured to death, and puts this poison into effect during his, XaXa, and PoH's attack on the members of the Golden Apple Guild. When discussing what they will do with the captured trio, Johnny expresses a desire to make them fight each other to the death, promising to release the survivor; when PoH notes that Johnny will just kill the survivor, Johnny complains about how the Guild Leader has ruined the surprise. He subsequently tries to poison Kirito when he comes to the Golden Apple trio's rescue. Escaping into the real world, Johnny was recruited by XaXa during the Death Gun murders, poisoning Pale Rider and Garret in their homes, before again making a getaway. He was finally arrested when, after having lain in wait for six months, he attacked Kirito and Asuna on the street, intending to inject them with poison from a syringe, and hospitalizing Kirito. Unable to quit killing in the virtual world or the real world, Johnny is the work's definitive Psycho for Hire.

These are temporarily moved here.

• Mazinger Z:
  • Dr. Hell's Backstory features being mishandled by his parents during the childhood riddled with misfortune, discrimination and humiliation, which formed him into the relentlessly unforgiving, dastardly man with a tendency to dispatch romantic rivals. He wishes to purge the world of idiots and force the survivors to bow down to him. When older, Dr. Hell designed Doomsday Devices for Hitler and made human experiments with inmates in Auschwitz. Several years after the end of WWII, he led an archaeological research expedition to the Greek Island of Bardos, where he found an army of Humongous Mecha. Right away, he murdered the whole expedition minus Dr. Kabuto. Later, he got himself an army of Mooks by mechanizing the brains of corpses and turning them into expendable Cyborgs programmed to serve him faithfully and unquestionably. He constantly designs Weapons of Mass Destruction his second-in-commands use to obliterate whole cities.
  • For Baron Ashura, "good" and "evil" are meaningless words made up by human beings. He/she is perfectly capable of hitting children (once also having blown apart the wheelchair of a disabled girl to prevent her from escaping), murdering little dog cubs or committing worse atrocities if he thinks it will further his/her goals, like machine gun several survivors of a shipwreck as he/she gloats they will be revived like cyborgs and turned into his/her slaves or like slaying a hostage or pawn after he or she has outlived his or her usefulness. He/she is easily Hell's most brutal henchmen, usually the most loyal, and would do anything to turn Hell's dreams into reality. Under his/her command, his/her Mechanical Beasts set whole cities on fire, bombard them with missiles into smoking ruins, cause earthquakes to bring them down, cut ships in halves, murdering the whole passage, shoot or blast whole planes down, blow up trains and buses and thus kill thousands of people.
  • Before Hell met him and saved his life, Count Brocken was a Nazi officer who was considered particularly blood-thirsty by his own partners. He also is the first of Hell's henchmen to kill someone on panel on the manga even before Ashura, and he is capable of joking as he cuts heads off.
  • In one of the alternate realities from Shin Mazinger Zero, Dr. Kabuto himself. He murdered his son Kenzo, tried to murder his grandson Kouji, and raped and murdered Sayaka in front of an impotent Kouji.
  • Marquis Janus is a witch more than willing to befriend people under disguise before poisoning them. Another of her acts in the Gosaku Ota manga episodes is slicing Misato in half to pay Tetsuya back for defeating her in a fair fight.
  • Great Marshall of Darkness is downright cruel, especially in the Ota episodes: His first strategy was blowing up one city and then warning he would do the same thing in Tokyo unless the Japanese Government destroyed the Fortress of Science and Great Mazinger. The Government caves in - and Great Marshall razes Tokyo to rubble anyways. Another of his plans involves creating a Kill Sat to blow up from the space any target he feels like annihilating. You can say Dr. Hell became an even greater bastard after dying and being brought back to life as a servant of Mykene Emperor.
  • King Vega's idea of what to do when your homeworld is becoming unstable and on the verge of destruction is to begin conquering and colonizing another worlds. Original inhabitants of a planet are usually exterminated, although in some instances they are "only" enslaved. To put his mindset in perspective, when his own daughter Rubina asked him why he isn't willing to make peace with the people of Earth, he couldn't come up with an answer.
  • Barados deliberately targets women and children in order to exterminate the Fleed's population, which is without mentioning the "let's drop several hundred of children from three thousand meters from height" -incident.

All proposals or requests for removals should go to the Complete Monster Cleanup thread set up for that very purpose. Requests to add characters on the discussion page will get ignored.

Jamitov Hymen is NOT CM. The fact that he personally ordered Bask Ohm to stop killing spacenoids without a reason, because spacenoids are necessary, with a really deep thought and sad look just because Bask did not understand nor take him seriously on that point. He got some moral in him.

I request that the Girl Posse from School Days be back from the list. While the main character is an extreme Jerkass and isn't exactly a Complete Monster, those bitches have no reason at all to pull that shit they did. After all, Western Animation has Eric Cartman from South Park and Web Comics has Xykon from Order Of The Stick despite both being on the YMMV territory.

Does V.V from Code Geass count?

The titular character of MD Geist is suggested as being one on his OAV's YMMV page. Given he's a Blood Knight who enjoys tearing people apart with his bare hands, was actually put into stasis by his own creators because he enjoys killing so much that he scared them, and he ends the first OAV by starting a Robot War of apocalyptic proportions just to ensure endless battles for him to fight, indifferently wiping out all life on the planet to do so, it's believable he's one of these, isn't it?

High School of the Dead is listed twice. I also think V.V from Code Geas would qualify since he tried to weaponize super powered children and if even a tenth of them were as messed up as Rolo he'd still be a complete monster. He's even killed by his own brother because he has no redeeming qualities.

Why are there so many subpages. I tried to get ride of them and add them to the main article, but most of them were placed back and the article was locked.

Does the Kira side of Light Yagami from Death Note counts as a Complete Monster?

Shidou's on the list twice...

I can't tell who the current picture is. Where'd Johan go?

Why is Otome's Girl Posse from School Days removed from the list? I thought all the Complete Monsters here are the YMMV type?

Does Light Yagami count? Because I was considering putting him in, but I wasn't sure.

I would think Kouji from the Hentai movie"Chains of Lust" should be on here.If you ever see this hentai mini series this guy could make you disgusted that he got away with it all.He kidnaps three women with his partner to star in their porn videos.To be specific he makes videos of him and his partner raping them.The first woman they rape is a high school student they drug at a mall.They video tape and rape her in they van.After they rape her, they said they did it because she was at the wrong place at the wrong time.After that they on to black mail her mother with the tape saying that it would blemish their family's reputation.What's worse they do this while her husband is out of time.He blantly forces himself on her mother in order for daughter to be returned safetly.Not only that he forces the mother's sister into their disgusting acts.Do you know what crowns it all up,Kouji cosies up to some corrupt police men who called in by the mother to stop them.Kouji ,in exchange for the police's silence,basically sends the three women to be ganged banged by this disgusting piles of corrup crap that are supposed to be the law.Near the end Kouji is almost killed by one of the police men for apparently trying to rat him out to the higher ups.At the end he survives to kill his partner who ratted him out to the police man.Yeah,what makes me really want to wish he was killed was the fact it is left ambigous what he is going to do to the three women now that he impregnanted them and in chains.Do you know what he basically screwed with their lives because he picked the mother and daughter randomly out of a busy crowd and decided it would be fun to make rape porn videos of them.I don't care what they say but he was never funny but a straigt up example of what I hate about hentai protaganists(with everything seen I think he is an antaganist).He's basically an unfunny rapist who doesn't make a big deal he's shitting on three innocent women's lives with no remorse.

What do you think? Should this picture be replaced with a classical example? Say, Frieza? Someone that more than a thousand(figuratively speaking) will recognize?

You may have noticed a significant trimming of this article recently. Here's what happened.

This article is one of several that has gotten so large, editing it has been causing server problems. See this thread for details.

To fix this, and to ensure it doesn't happen again, I am initiating a major project to get all of the Blue Linked series their own article in the Monster namespace. This will alleviate the size issue in the main page.

You can help by moving any entries for series with a main article to their own Monster namespace. The only entries that should go on Monster.Anime And Manga are those that do not have a main article.

Some examples were removed from the Violinist Of Hameln, and no reason was given beyond a mention of Evilly Affable in the modified writeup. A better justification is needed or else I'll put them back on (The Joker and Order Of The Stick's Xykon also fall under Evilly Affable, and were judged to fit Complete Monster sandards anyway).

Here they are for reference:

• Orgel methodically pushed the main character, Hamel, to the Despair Event Horizon, by manipulating the civilians into an attempt to lynch him, just to remind that Humans Are Bastards, goading Hamel into sending away the girl he loved (and his main anchor to humanity), and finally literally using ghosts of Hamel's past against him (with necromantic music), all to make Hamel submit to his Superpowered Evil Side and kill his friends, as well as everyone around.
• Vocal slaughtered a whole country because its citizens and king were the first to accept Hamel as a hero despite his ancestry, although this just determined his choice of targets - he needed no reason for murder in general, besides really, really liking to kill people.
• Guitar physically and mentally tortured Trom Bone (who was, mind you, still a kid, despite being a powerful swordsman) after temporarily gaining the upper hand in their final fight, even using the swords of Trom's parents to impale him, both to defile their memory, and to kill Trom in way similar to his mother's gruesome death, all just for kicks.

Noticed someone added Zouken Matou to the Fate/Stay Night entry. Since he only appears in the Heaven's Feel route (which hasn't been animated yet), I believe he should be cut.

Do the Buddhist Monks from Air count as complete monsters? They place a curse on Kanna (which extends to her next incarnations and it kills her whenever she loves someone or vice versa) simply because she left the temple to see her mother.

• Eva/Eva-Beatrice in Umineko No Naku Koro Ni: Starting with torturing Rosa via killing her over and over again, she decides being as cruel as possible is fun and spends the rest of the arc killing everyone else off while also subjecting them to this fate. She's eventually the only survivor (though her status on whether she actually killed anyone besides Battler is debatable). Then after that, she makes the only other remaining Ushiromiya (Ange)'s life a living hell just because she won't accept her as her mother, going as far as siccing ANOTHER evil aunt on her (Kasumi) who wants to make Ange suffer because she's the daughter of her much-hated sister Kyrie. And then she encourages said evil aunt to tear apart the last remaining symbols of Maria's innocence in front of her. And after things happen, she shows up to shove a bullet into her brain. Keep in mind, EVA IS SUPPOSED TO BE DEAD AT THIS POINT DUE TO HEART FAILURE..
  • Lambdadelta: Well first, she's the one who enabled Miyo Takano to get as far as she did back in Higurashi, if the backstory is to be believed. And of course, she now provides the same service for Beatrice, only more directly. And at the end of Arc 3, she very scarily reminds Beatrice of her place. She's determined to keep the game in a TIE, thus screwing over the Ushiromiyas as well. And at the end of Arc 4, she shackles Beato up so she can no longer escape or run away like she did with Maria. Now, the only way Beato can lose is if Battler wins and disproves her existence...
  • For many fans, Kinzou Ushiromiya falls into this too. He was always close to this trope because of his treatment of his family and the subverted Pater Familicide, but the revelations about Beatrice Ushiromiya, his daughter and the fact that this was Parental Incest seems have been the Moral Event Horizon that pushed him into this.

Cut several examples from Umineko No Naku Koro Ni, on the grounds of conflicting with one of the requirements - No Empathy. Kinzo is specifically shown to have spent the last 19 years regretting his actions. Terrible as they might be, his regrets show he still feels empathy.

Unless the last episode contradicts it, Lambdadelta now actually appears to be a Stealth Mentor.

A case might be made for Eva-Beatrice, but the bit I've cut mostly discusses Eva's actions. She quite possibly wasn't even responsible for the murders, and is probably one of the most devoted to her family in the series. The way she treated Ange in the aftermath of surviving the island doesn't appear to have been purposely malicious either.

I'd like to advocate for Babidi to be put back in the Dragonball section, taking into account that he:

1. Kills off his loyal minions (Spopovitch, Yamu, and Dabura) despite the fact that they help him succeed in reviving Buu, simply because he has no more use for them.

2. Takes great joy in having Buu kill the people of Earth to lure out Piccolo, Goten, and Trunks (and at one point tells Goku that he intends to kill more people just to spite him after being asked to stop).

3. Kills someone that gave him information on Piccolo, Goten, and Trunks simply because he found it to be useless.

Like Freeza, he was an antagonist that wasn't created to be evil or insane. He was simply an asshole that enjoyed being evil.

• Despite Enishi's Freudian Excuse, until his defeat, he is a Complete Monster through a through. When he ends up in Shang-hai for example, he murders the rich family who takes him in and says 'Now I have all I'll need', and he's always been a rather messed up child. Wanting Kenshin to die just after meeting him, and he systematically tortures all of Kenshin's friends and allies outside his circle. What happens to him at the end though-when he is denied his sister's smile (he thought before that everything he was doing was approved by Tomoe) and his subsequent breakdown is a fitting punishment.

The smile that he was denied was not of his sister; was of his MENTAL IMAGE of his sister. In other words, the that you put as one fitting punishment was "have one Villainous Breakdown after one Heel Realization". This disqualifies he by requisite 4

I don't think that Roberto counts as a Complete Monster. True, he is an Axe-Crazy Psycho-For-Hire. However, it is made explicitly clear that he was transformed into one by the sickos at Kinderheim 511. Wolfgang Grimmer recalls that he originally was a kind-hearted young boy who visited him every afternoon to share his cocoa with him while he was recuperating in the infirmary. Ultimately, however, he was forcefully deprived of fundamental emotions such as compassion and love and subsequently enlisted in the military where he was transformed into a killer. Furthermore, the heinous acts which he commits in the series can largely be attributed to his unwavering devotion to Johann whom he worships for giving him a distant memory from his past (his love for cocoa).

Why was Commander Red removed? Several of the things he did were very much irredeemable. For one thing, besides the fact that he was the one who hired Tao Pai Pai (who IS a complete monster, anyways) in the first place, he was also very much responsible for a huge amount of bloodshed from the Red Ribbon Army's actions due to the fact that he was their commander. Not only that, but they primarily did so out of fear of what would happen to him if they failed to do so (as it is implied that he kills them for failing in some fashion). Heck, he freely admitted when confronted by Adjutant Black after the latter overheard his wish that he was perfectly willing to sacrifice his entire army for his wish, and even hints that he is going to kill Black because he was expendable had Black not killed him. Speaking of his wish, he intended to wish for... no, not world domination, not even any conquest of any sort, but to become taller, meaning he extinguished countless lives, both Red Ribbon personnel and innocent civilians, just for an extremely trivial wish. Maybe it's not quite as bad as Frieza, but Tao Pai Pai wasn't as bad as Frieza, either, yet he was still eligable for the trope.

Does this really count?

• Dekim Barton from Gundam Wing Endless Waltz, who spent almost two decades setting up a plan to Take Over the World by pulling a Colony Drop, then sending five Super Prototype Gundams to wipe out any remaining resistance. And when that fell through, he revised the plan, this time using soldiers manipulated into thinking they were fighting for their slain leader's ideals, when in fact they're just following Dekim's plot. And on top of that, there's the strong implication that Mariemaia, the figurehead leader of the rebellion and Dekim's granddaughter isn't really his granddaughter OR Treize Khushrenada's daughter, but rather some random little girl Dekim effectively brainwashed. And after she's shot, he boasts that he can easily make another one. And all this because he thought Earth needed to be punished for the assassination of the colonies' leader. Just damn.

Yes, Dekim was a dick, a Jerkass, a Smug Snake, and a total bastard. But he never engages in any violence personally. The trope page says that people being killed by an Evil Overlord don't count; he has to be present. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Dekim never gets his hands dirty does he?

In addition to Frieza, I don't think that Cell belongs on the Complete Monster page either. Maybe he killed thousands of Earth people, but the Earth people are portrayed as so damned stupid that it really prevents any sympathy from this particular viewer. When everyone just accepted that it was Mr. Satan who defeated Cell, it sort of makes you wish that Cell had annihilated the Earth. It negates Complete Monster status if the ones that the villain is being evil to are foolish creatures who deserve it.

Some specification on the Monstrosity of Dr. Hell and Ashura, please.

They may be evil, and card-carryingly so, but they're not OMG die now. They're amusing, and Dr. Hell does care about Baron Ashura, and is reasonably pissed in a few continuities when he dies.

Whoever keeps adding new people to the Code Geass section please stop. The fact that none of them, besides Bradley, were complete monsters is a major part of the show and the examples white wash the complicated Anti-Villain antagonist into them.

Schneizel did not want to bomb the cities but he thought it was better then having every one enslaved by lelouche who was a acting like a complete monster at the time, he did not think it would create a utopia just stop his brothers tyranny. Also the bombing was not his idea even though he did go along with it, but that of Nunnally as she stated in the last episode, for some reason people tend to forget that

The Emperor and VV are more complicated but the former for most of the series was a Designated Villain and when you finally hear his reasoning and what he went through it is obvious he is Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds. As for VV he also went through the trauma Charles did and while what he did was vary bad he still has his reasons and like his brother think that what he is doing is best for mankind

So... wait, was anime full of chillingly monstrous villains before western live-action TV was? Sorry, I have to admit I'm a little disturbed by all the introductions 1. stressing how irredeemably evil villains are apparently a relatively new thing in media, and 2. how this is a triumph.

• And the third is none other than the aforementioned young boy, only all grown up: the darkly charismatic Big Bad Nakago himself, no matter how much the authoress and the fangirls give him the Draco in Leather Pants treatment. Yes, his backstory is tragic enough (with him being the last member of the Hin Tribe who was forced to see his mother being raped by the Emperor's soldiers, then accidentally killing her when his powers awakened, and being used as a sex toy by the Emperor for years), and he was intended to be a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds, but Yuu Watase was less than skilled in pulling it off, and his actions are so horrendous that he cannot be anything else but a Complete Monster anyway: manipulating Yui into turning against her best friend Miaka by tricking her into believing she had been raped because of Miaka's inaction (when in fact, Miaka genuinely didn't know Yui was in trouble, and was appalled to the point of a borderline Heroic BSoD when she found out); cruelly using and lying to anyone he comes in contact with, even just for the sheer joy of it and enjoying the results; trying to commit genocide on the country responsible for his mother's death, with absolutely no regard for the lives of hundreds of thousands of innocents; manipulating Suboshi (hardly a saint himself, but still with some redeeming qualities) into murdering Tamahome's family, taking advantage of Suboshi's own distress at the apparent loss of his beloved twin brother Amiboshi; and finally, deciding to take revenge against the whole universe for the miserable life he has had, by becoming a god and erasing everything only to become the supreme being and recreate it all as HE saw fit. Really, Nakago is It's All About Me personified. Word of advice, Watase-san: if you really want your villains to be seen as woobies, avoid making them cross the Moral Event Horizon multiple times.

The trope description says Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds NEVER can be Complete Monsters and Yuu Watase was really blatant about Nakago be one. (Ok, only in his last moments and after this, but...)