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Viira
topic
09:13:59 AM Jul 9th 2013
  • Hollywood Evolution + Hollywood Genetics: In the second game, Mordin tells Shepard that humans have more genetic diversity that any other species, making them ideal for scientific study.
    • First, you don't usually want genetic diversity. Usually, you want to control every possible condition in a scientific study, which is why the mice used in experiments tend to be clones, or very closely related.
      • Well, that depends on what kind of experiment you're running. If you want to have reliable results, you go the way of least genetic diversity. If however you want to have a first glance of what could happen under different circumstances, you want diversity - which still would not lead to an all-human test group, since now multiple species would do the job better.
    • Second, humans really, really shouldn't have more diversity than any other species. Their colonies aren't even in their second generation, yet. Humans have been confined to a single planet. Every other species has been among the stars for centuries, if not millennia. Salarians have been spacefarers for more than 1500 years, which is roughly 150 generations for them. Of all the species, humans should have the least genetic diversity, particularly in light of the Bizarre Alien Biology of the asari.
      • If you take as a given that mutation rate is equal among the species, yes. But the statement can be read that humans just have a higher mutation rate, thus increasing variance. Also, depending on mobility within your people, mutations easily equal out. More individuums equals more diversity only holds strictly enough only if said individuums were isolated in their respective habitats. So human genetic diversity is improbable but possible.
      • Also, asari's Bizarre Alien Biology could very well mean that they have the least genetic diversity, after all, their cross-species offspring don't receive genetic influx.

Moved this here, because it was becoming a natter-magnet. Could someone with knowledge about genetics help with the example?
Larkmarn
10:37:37 AM Jul 9th 2013
Keep them pulled. The points here are:

A: Diversity is bad for scientific study and B: Humans shouldn't be that much more diverse.

However, given what we know, we kind of just have to assume that it's true. Point A is only accurate for certain types of studies, but the opposite is accurate for others. Point B was have to assume is true because they said it is. We don't have any information on alien diversity, what with them being, you know, aliens and fictional. So we have to take their word for it.
ArcadesSabboth
topic
09:46:37 AM Dec 12th 2011
Removing this, it's verbal ticks and thread-mode. The applicable parts of this can be reworded and re-added under the new trope, The Usual Adversaries.

  • Goddamn Orks: The Goddamn Geth. Until the genophage it was Goddamn Krogan. And before them, it was Goddamn Rachni.In Mass Effect 2 it's the Goddamn Vorcha and Goddamn Mercs. Not one character has anything nice to say about them.
    • And part of the reason the Council is wary of humans is because they're worried about a Goddamn Humans situation.
      • This is directly addressed in the first novel, wherein the human ambassador begins to worry that humans are as inherently warlike and belligerent as are the krogan.
silver1881
topic
10:53:24 AM Feb 27th 2011
Can we take a vote or something on use of The Force? This edit war is driving me crazy. I vote no; being "inspired" by something is not the same as actually using the trope.
kernedge
02:09:36 PM Feb 27th 2011
edited by kernedge
The purpose of TV Tropes is not simply to describe or characterize works of fiction, but to dissect them and deconstruct motivations, influences and subtexts. Biotics in the context of Mass Effect do not seem to have been included solely because they made sense within the universe. There is a clear inspiration being drawn from the usage of the force in Star Wars. But even discarding the possibility of including inspirations in the examples, to which I disagree, there is a case for the usage of the trope itself. Of course it lacks morality overtones non-existent in the verse (note: arguably, some material in the Star Wars's EU kind of blur the clear-cut light side and dark side manichaeism), BUT:
1) It requires living beings — we never see any technology doing something similar to what biotics do. Given the enormous military potential of what biotics are able to do, we should be seeing biotic guns everywhere. Why don't we?
2) It flings people and things all over the place.
3) Justicars are somewhat similar to the Jedi. In fact, force-sensitives seem to be viewed with the same eyes as people with biotic abilities - that is, they are seen as wizards of sorts, subtle and powerful in more ways than meet the eye.
4) The Mass Effect series is known for shouting out to lots of things and drawing inspiration from a lot of places. These do not diminish the work. And that seems to be the implication behind the constant deletion of this entry.
For these reasons I believe this is not a simple, clear cut use of telekinesis. There is much more going on behind bioticism than that, giving social implications that, though amoral, resemble what Star Wars gave us with the original force.
tsstevens
03:11:19 PM Feb 27th 2011
One of the problems is you seem to be of the opinion of I want this on the page, too bad if everyone else doesn't. Which is a shame, really. What a waste. I'm sure you could have been an excellent contributer to the site, but sadly because you cannot seem to grasp the concept of rules about edit warring we are not going to be able to be shown your brilliant insight.
kernedge
03:24:58 PM Feb 27th 2011
The problem I see is: nobody is giving an actual reason for "not wanting" it on the page. It feels terribly like whim, on the implication that this is somehow a ripoff of Star Wars, which is something I never said. Perhaps there is a way to word the text of the entry that avoids this insinuation, but the thing is I don't understand what is the problem that people have with the entry. It should at the very least be something that readers can make their own minds about, and I see no reason at all to outright axe it.
tsstevens
03:33:12 PM Feb 27th 2011
The reason is because, well, This isn't the trope you're looking for. I can understand what you are trying to say but as it stands saying biotics are Force powers and Justicars are Jedi is closer to a stretched Shout-Out than describing The Force. Convince us that it applies and we'd be happy to have it up.
TriggerLoaded
04:13:46 PM Feb 27th 2011
To put it another way, kernedge, read the page on The Force. It isn't about references to the Star Wars use of the force, or some mystical ability that gives magic powers in a sci-fi setting. It's the idea of a pervasive 'force' of goodness, somewhat like a deity, that promotes harmony between all living things.
shimaspawn
moderator
05:04:45 PM Feb 27th 2011
edited by shimaspawn
Biotics are not an example of the trope The Force therefore, the trope should not be on the page. The trope The Force is not identical to the concept from Star Wars. Please read the page and don't add bad examples. Those are against the site rules. The trope The Force is "Lifeforce as power." Biotics are not an example of "Lifeforce as power."
Jerrik
06:00:28 PM Feb 27th 2011
Also, your assertion that technology can't do similar things to biotics is completely wrong. Biotics is just manipulation of mass effect fields by a person. A bunch of technology works by manipulating mass effect fields, like faster-than-light space travel, gravity generators, shields, and guns. There is no requirement that living beings be involved somehow. The only thing needed is element zero.
TuefelHundenIV
08:02:51 PM Feb 27th 2011
Indeed the use of the trope does not properly fit. There are some secondary characteristics in the force description that very very very loosely could apply but that would be quite the stretch. There are a plethora of other tropes that can readily apply to Mass Effect Fields.
kernedge
10:36:43 PM Feb 27th 2011
"The trope The Force is not identical to the concept from Star Wars"

You are completely right, that was what got me confused. I am sorry for the trouble I caused, which was quite a lot. Serves me right for diagonally reading an entry before adding examples. I assumed the trope *maker* for The Force was The Force from Star Wars, and it is quite unintuitive that it is actually not even an example of the trope! I just made a fool of myself.

Would you consider this a valid example of Background Magic Field? I think it carries the meaning I thought of when I tried to add the entry (maybe making it less specific to gravity, since gravity can do all sorts of magical things in the ME universe). In fact, someone mentioned in the discussion page regarding the change of the name of The Force that Background Magic Field should have gotten that name instead.

@Jerrik: Yes, but we never see technology doing quite the same as biotics do. Biotics are valuable and special, like wizards, which kind of implies that their skill and versatility cannot, at that time, be duplicated by technology, despite the myriad technological applications of mass effect fields.
Shale
05:08:09 AM Feb 28th 2011
This is a valid thing to list on the trope page, just as a Shout-Out to Star Wars.
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