Manga Maria Holic Discussion

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67.142.162.34
Topic
04:59:14 PM Aug 22nd 2010
Given how offensive and defamatory this show is towards the whole breadth of LGBT, it should really have Dude, Not Funny! on the main page.
JackMackerel
05:18:53 PM Aug 22nd 2010
If you actually watched the show, you'd find that it's nothing but a parody of the yuri genre.
67.142.162.34
06:18:18 PM Aug 22nd 2010
Yes, exactly, it's a denouncement of an entire sexuality, among other things.
JackMackerel
07:12:38 PM Aug 22nd 2010
AHAHAHAHAHA

OH WOW

It doesn't mock lesbians. It parodies the genre of yuri romance and the tropes in yuri anime/manga.
dragonfire5000
06:01:32 PM Sep 13th 2010
edited by dragonfire5000
It sucks as a parody then. It works as a gender bender story, but a parody? How does it parody the genre?

You seem to be a bit rabid in defense of this.
JackMackerel
11:00:07 PM Sep 13th 2010
Sure, if you can call knee-jerk reactions from people who've only read Erica Friedman's review about Kanako's suffering.

How does it parody the genre?

Oh, let's start with the mockery of Mari Mite's roses and sparkles and relationships...
dragonfire5000
12:54:17 AM Sep 14th 2010
edited by dragonfire5000
Roses, sparkles, and relationships like that appear in yaoi works as well. Your point? You've only shown that it could possibly be a parody of one specific work and not the entire genre as a whole.

I think it would be best for you to take a bit of a chill pill, accept that other people might interpret things a little differently, and be a bit more polite. Instead of reasons like 'shut up' for taking something a trope you disagree with off, give something more reasonable.

After all, why should we take your word over Erica Friedman's? She could accept that other people would not agree with her and has shown herself to be much more mature about the subject.
JackMackerel
02:39:24 AM Sep 14th 2010
Roses, sparkles, and relationships like that appear in yaoi works as well.

Your point? There's a series of specific parodies of the art styles of Mari Mite, mocking its use of rosaries, the rather ubiquitous "lesbian at an academy" plot of many yuri works (why, yes, I'm aware this is also the plot of a great deal of non-yuri works, why do you ask)...

After all, why should we take your word over Erica Friedman's? She could accept that other people would not agree with her and has shown herself to be much more mature about the subject.

So, removing a rather biased and knee-jerk opinion from the main page, never mind we've got reviews and other lovely things to place opinions on, is apparently on the same caliber as Erica Friedman respectfully disagreeing with other people... oh, wait, so far, there's been one angry commenter who was subsequently dealt with.
dragonfire5000
07:26:33 AM Sep 14th 2010
edited by dragonfire5000
You still haven't explained how it is a parody of the genre as a whole; you've only shown it mocking one aspect of the genre. Maria†Holic only works as a parody of the whole yuri genre if all yuri works took place at an academy in the style of Maria-sama ga Miteru, which they don't.

All I'm saying is that you could've handled things better; being rude doesn't endear yourself to others and give them reason to believe you. You came across just as angry as the person who put that trope there. Your opinion came across just as biased as well; why should we believe you're right?

You really come across as fanatically rabid about defending this series. I would suggest calming down a little.
JackMackerel
10:21:21 PM Sep 14th 2010
which they don't

Sure it does. Granted, the latter's a parody.

All I'm saying is that you could've handled things better; being rude doesn't endear yourself to others and give them reason to believe you. You came across just as angry as the person who put that trope there. Your opinion came across just as biased as well; why should we believe you're right?

So, I removed some natter from the main page and I'm suddenly The Pesci. Where did I attack you, exactly? I've had to remove similar things from the page, since most people take one look at Erica Friedman's review (which was more about the unintentional not-comedy of Kanako's abuse than it being offensive towards lesbians) and go berserk.
dragonfire5000
08:24:01 AM Sep 15th 2010
edited by dragonfire5000
You didn't read my comment fully huh? I said that not all yuri works take place in an academy setting and provided a few examples of those that don't. Those examples already show not all yuri works take place in a setting similar to Maria-sama ga Miteru. Did you honestly think giving three examples of works that do negate the works that don't? Seriously?

Also, giving reasons like "shut up" for taking off a trope certainly make you seem like a Jerk Ass. I never said you attacked me specifically, I just mentioned that you seem to take great offense and react rather badly to those who think the show is offensive to the LGBT community. I suggested that you not act like you are so quick to offend; being polite about why the work isn't that offensive towards lesbians might have caused people to be a little more accepting.

If you feel the need to defend a "comedy" work so rabidly, people might question whether or not the comedy is any good.
JackMackerel
12:28:39 PM Sep 15th 2010
You didn't read my comment fully huh? I said that not all yuri works take place in an academy setting and provided a few examples of those that don't. Those examples already show not all yuri works take place in a setting similar to Maria Sama Ga Miteru. Did you honestly think giving three examples of works that do negate the works that don't? Seriously?

Just countering the three examples you gave themselves. Seriously, I didn't say "oh lol all yuri works take place in the same setting", it was just a staple of the genre parodied here.

Also, giving reasons like "shut up" for taking off a trope certainly make you seem like a Jerk Ass. I never said you attacked me specifically, I just mentioned that you seem to take great offense and react rather badly to those who think the show is offensive to the LGBT community. I suggested that you not act like you are so quick to offend; being polite about why the work isn't that offensive towards lesbians might have caused people to be a little more accepting.

The comment for the "aforementioned" trope was rather knee-jerk, and it was rather obvious the person in question didn't watch the show. So if I'm a flaming psycho who cries in his basement every time someone "criticizes" the show by adding in pointless natter, so be it.

If you feel the need to defend a "comedy" work so rabidly, people might question whether or not the comedy is any good.

Where are you getting this vibe that I'm "rabidly" defending this work? All I did was remove someone's comment and respond to their ignorant points, because the show's not about "oh let's be offensive to lesbians". In fact, I can take that most people don't like the show because it's not that funny and SHAFT's jokes fall flat, or rely too much on parody.
dragonfire5000
01:04:34 PM Sep 15th 2010
I said that not all yuri works took place in a setting like Maria-sama ga Miteru and your answer was that they all were despite me putting three works that didn't. The mistake is still yours and countering such an example doesn't work that way. It's only one aspect of the genre so it would be more accurate to say that Maria†Holic is a parody of Maria-sama ga Miteru, not the yuri genre as a whole.

Ad hominem attacks make people look immature; anything wrong with correcting someone politely instead of saying "shut up" and assuming they're basement dwellers? People might be more inclined to take you seriously if you don't resort to ad hominem attacks.

The vibe comes from some of your "shut up" reason and assuming that people who don't like the show are "yuri fantards." Generalizing much? You could've told the person how the show isn't offensive to the LGBT community politely, but responses like "AHAHAHAHAHA" and "OH WOW" as well as reasons for taking out tropes being "shut up" might make some think you're a Maria†Holic fantard. That's why I've been saying you need to calm down a little.
JackMackerel
12:48:30 AM Sep 16th 2010
I said that not all yuri works took place in a setting like Maria Sama Ga Miteru and your answer was that they all were despite me putting three works that didn't. The mistake is still yours and countering such an example doesn't work that way. It's only one aspect of the genre so it would be more accurate to say that Maria Holic is a parody of Maria Sama Ga Miteru, not the yuri genre as a whole.

I didn't imply that, I just noted some yuri works take place in an academy.

What was the point of this, again? All I'm doing is removing irritating natter from people who didn't watch even a minute of it - half the time, it's not even actively parodying yuri.
dragonfire5000
07:21:00 AM Sep 16th 2010
When the response to a phrase that says " Maria Holic only works as a parody of the whole yuri genre if all yuri works took place at an academy in the style of Maria Sama Ga Miteru, which they don't" is "Sure they do", it certainly implies that you believe all yuri works take place in such a setting. Perhaps you should've worded your answer a little more clearly to avoid misunderstanding.

First of all, I'm just saying you could've been a little more courteous in your responses. Second of all, you really shouldn't assume everyone who puts those things there didn't watch the show; perhaps some did and just interpreted the series differently because it rubbed them the wrong way. Thirdly, it isn't even a parody of the yuri genre, just a parody of Maria-sama ga Miteru. If it was meant to be a parody of the entire genre, it isn't doing a good job of it.
86.161.66.111
12:16:14 AM Nov 25th 2010
Just chiming in to say that I do actually agree with the OP. While having not watched any Yuri shows aside from this (well, not any outright yuri shows, anyway) - sitting through 6 or so episodes made me feel like the main character was some wierd strawman for teenage lesbians, played for laughs and not *quite* succeeding. The less said about Mariya's implications on Trans, the better.

But then this is Japan we're talking about here. Very little mainstream media it releases (or at least, releases and has the rest of the world know about it) deal with LGBT issues in what you'd call a balanced way. But I fear I might be opening a can or worms with that statement, so I'll shut up.

I do like the opening of the show, though. I'll give it that.
SenoritaTacoMal
11:49:11 AM Sep 9th 2011
To me Kanako is a deconstruction/exaggeration parody of the archetypal schoolgirl lesbian. She's not supposed to be an example. I remember one episode in which they call Kanako a lesbian, then they clarify and call her a "raging dyke". The intention of this series wasn't to offend, IMO it was to say, "What if we take this lesbian who's looking for her one true love, except we make her excessively perverted?"
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