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09:14:29 AM Feb 22nd 2013
"children are a waste" entry:

lists prostitute as giving this trope as "excuse" for seeking abortion; suggest substitution in language of "reason" for "excuse." if the anime itself is misogynistic on its own, fine, but let the trope description be neutral at least.
01:58:02 PM Jun 12th 2014
Yes, I edited that trope to keep it neutral. While we are clearly asked to sympathize with Madam Red, no one is encouraged to condone her behavior.
09:52:14 AM Nov 16th 2012
edited by Nocturna
Okay guys, we're having a very slow edit war on this page over Grell's gender, so we need to decide which gender to use and stick with it. I'm hoping we can work this out here, rather than it having to take this to Ask The Tropers.

What gender should we use for Grell in our articles?

This is a very sensitive/inflammatory topic, so please keep it civil and extend the benefit of the doubt to everyone involved.

  • Male?
    • Grell is clearly biologically male, so someone with only a passing acquaintance with the series would expect male nouns and pronouns.
    • The show generally treats Grell as male (being a butler, all Shinigami seem to be male, etc.), and the other characters on the show refer to Grell using male pronouns.
    • This is the most commonly used gender among fans and in general discussion. Both Wikipedia and the Kuroshitsuji wiki refer to Grell with male nouns and pronouns.

  • Female?
    • Grell is transgender (heavily implied in-universe, confirmed by Word of God), so female nouns and pronouns are technically correct.
    • Our character page already uses female nouns and pronouns.
10:01:29 AM Nov 16th 2012
I wanted the first post to be as neutral as possible, so I didn't include my opinion in it. Here's my personal opinion on the question: I would go with male pronouns, while making it clear on the character sheet (and wherever else necessary) than Grell is transgender. I think this will be the least confusing, and most in line with the way other places have handled it (feeding back into it being the least confusing).
07:21:31 AM Jun 12th 2014
It's been a while, but I thought Grell was a gay tranvestite and didn't think s/he was a transgender.

That said, I say we use whatever s/he is identified as in the English version of the work.
03:05:42 PM Jun 12th 2014
^ +1. Whatever pronoun the character uses when referring to him/herself is what we should use. (Never seen it so I don't know what that is, or if it's ever come up.)
09:46:10 AM Sep 24th 2012
edited by Nocturna
The image was recently changed from the top image to the bottom image . I personally think the first image is better, as it is from official promotional material and is the whole image, rather than an obviously cropped image.

10:00:47 PM Sep 24th 2012
Personally, I'm a fan of the old (top) image as well. I'd rather have that, honestly.
11:30:34 PM Sep 24th 2012
Ditto; the old image is more interesting and illustrative.
07:21:59 PM Sep 25th 2012
Shall I swap it back, then, or give it a bit more time to sit?
10:44:54 PM Sep 25th 2012
Go ahead, since the other guy didn't bother discussing. I think it'll be fine.
08:28:07 PM Nov 4th 2012
edited by sabros413
Oh, I'm "the other guy", I didn't see this discussion til now. I just thought that the original image displayed their relationship in an odd way, but it works just fine, I suppose.
12:50:56 PM Apr 1st 2012
Should we add the blue and orange morlaity trope? I remember demons actions being based on aestetic instead than on morals if I'm not mistaken.
01:35:01 PM Apr 1st 2012
Hm... Good point. I think that would probably fall under Blue and Orange Morality.
09:43:59 AM Jan 30th 2012
In german "grell" can mean "glaring" (in respects of light/colors) and "piercing" (in respect of sounds). Bilingual Bonus or coincidence?
08:28:58 PM Nov 4th 2012
I don't think it's clear enough to be Bilingual Bonus, so I think we can leave it out.
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