Main Yaoi Genre Discussion

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11:58:58 PM May 16th 2015
I think it's a good idea to make an analysis page and move most of the description to that page. The main page is too long, and most of it is an analysis anyway. If no one has any objections, I can do it.
01:47:58 AM May 17th 2015
07:11:59 PM Oct 2nd 2013
edited by
Yes the main article is now rather long (I mostly added stuff in rather than trying to change much of the existing text that other people had written, which was probably a mistake). Of course anyone is free to edit it to a more concise length or do what they wish with this article (I will try to edit it down if I get the opportunity), but please read through the information first and try to keep the reality of this genre in mind. I am rather tired of seeing this genre misunderstood and misconstrued. If you're going to make it into a joke or an insult at least understand what you're talking about, yes?
02:44:29 PM Dec 6th 2012
Re: Vassalord is not BL

Vassalord runs in a shoujo magazine, not a BL one, and is published as shoujo, not yaoi.

Yaoi is aimed at the shoujo and josei demographic to be sure, but is specifically sold under the term BL. That's the measuring stick, basically. Not how much queer content there is, but whether it's marketed and sold as such. This produces situations like Wild Adapter that ran in a BL magazine but was so vaguely homoerotic it was published as simply an action/mystery series in English, with no yaoi label attached. Therefore, in terms of original publication, the fairly tame Wild Adapter qualifies as yaoi and the unrepentently homoerotic Vassalord does not. However, Vassalord repeatedly has been listed as a BL work on this page before, because anyone reading it would make that assumption quite easily. Hence why it needs to be on the list of "not but mistaken for" to keep it from being readded to the main index when it shouldn't be. It's aimed at young women, but it's just not yaoi by publishing standards.

I do hope that all makes sense. If not I'll try to elaborate as best I can.
07:44:27 PM Dec 10th 2012
edited by TropeEater
Yaoi/BL/Shonen-Ai/Slash/whatever is, by TV Tropes' definition, not a demographic, but a genre and a trope. Vassalord uses the trope, even if it does not market itself as using the trope. Wild Adapter is a weird case, where it's more of Bait and Switch Gays than an actual example. It markets itself as an example, but is not truly an example itself.

TV Tropes is a wiki for cataloging and providing examples of narrative conventions, including stock plot devices, characters, twists, and genres. It is not a wiki for listing information about various series including what magazine they were serialized in and how they were marketed.

Last but definitely not least, Tropes Are Flexible. Just because the fans of a work, even the publishers of a work think it fits a specific trope or not doesn't mean that that's actually the case.

I'm going to remove it again. If it is put back, then we will be in danger of an Edit War. I'd hate to see this page locked over a tiny example. If you still believe it to truly not be an example, then we should probably Take It to the Forums before editing this page again.
08:29:05 PM Dec 10th 2012
I think there may have been some misunderstanding in my post. Yaoi is not a demographic, the demographic is josei, but it is also not a trope. It is a genre. It has tropes (see Boys Love Tropes for a rough list) but it is objectively a publishing genre with a loose framework of criteria.

TV Tropes is for providing narrative conventions, but Boys Love is an index page, used to organize works that contain narrative examples, not a trope page. Boys Love is not a narrative convention itself—relevent works simply contain them. Therefore, it is not logical to index a work that is not objectively part of the genre. Adding examples from Vassalord to tropes like Seme or Uke make sense, but not adding it to the index.

That said, I don't want an edit war over something this silly either.
07:04:26 AM Jan 1st 2012

This sounds like an example of shonen with a large slash fanbase rather than a non-BL manga that gets confused for actual Boys Love manga, which is what the section is for. If I'm wrong put it back by all means.
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