Main Unsettling Gender Reveal Discussion

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06:13:18 PM Jan 11th 2013
Just throwing out there that all instances of the word "gender" in the article should be replaced with sex. One cannot "physically appear" to be of one gender as gender refers the psychological and emotional characteristics while sex refers to the physical.
06:29:03 PM Sep 10th 2013
More often than not, the gender and sex of a given person match up, which is why people make assumptions about other people's gender based on their appearance. Whether or not this is justified is up for debate, but transgendered individuals are the exception, not the rule.
01:48:05 PM Apr 23rd 2018
Here are the meanings 3 and 4 of gender in the Wiktionary:

3- (now sometimes proscribed) Sex (a category such as "male" or "female" into which sexually-reproducing organisms are divided on the basis of their reproductive roles in their species). [from 15th c.]

4- Identification as male/masculine, female/feminine or something else, and association with a (social) role or set of behavioral and cultural traits, clothing, etc; a category to which a person belongs on this basis. (Compare gender role, gender identity.) [from 20th c.]

The page uses the meaning 3, similar to Pokémon.
06:50:38 PM Jun 16th 2012
How would this trope deal with intersexed characters? In one episode of House, a patient appeared female but was biologically male (due to androgen insensitivity), and in the novel Ringu, Sadako appeared female but (IIRC) had testicles due to a similar condition.

In the former case both she and her father/manager/lover (!) were horrified by the revelation and in the latter the difference is found out during an attempted rape, and Sadako's would-be rapist kills her and throws her down a well.
05:34:13 AM Jun 17th 2012
Those should qualify too. The Laconic for this trope was outdated. I just rewrote it to "Character learns that another character's physical sex is not what it appears to be," which I think is the essence of it. For purposes of the trope, whether the character is "revealed" to be male, female, or intersex shouldn't matter, as long as the answer isn't the "expected" one.
09:24:04 PM May 26th 2012
Can someone explain to me why the name has been changed to this frankly rather boring one?
10:41:28 AM May 27th 2012
Also, a HUGE fraction of the entries on the page mention the old name. Why change the name but none of the entries?
12:39:03 PM Oct 29th 2012
They keep changing them so that people who have never heard of the Trope Namer can understand. Frankly, I think they should just click on the link and read the trope, it's not that hard.

I was particularly upset about changing The Radley to Misunderstood Loner with a Heart of Gold. That's a mouthful and most English speakers have heard of To Kill A Mockingbird.
09:31:37 AM Jan 12th 2013
I think that there's a mod of somebody with a pet peeve of trying to create "more respectable" names for tropes. 'Cause, you know, science never has quirky names for things. The part that annoys me most is that the entire discussion related to it was removed and placed in the memory hole.
09:59:30 AM Jan 12th 2013
12:51:31 PM Feb 1st 2013
edited by AzureSeas
For what it's worth, the original title was intentionally misleading. The trope it spun off of, Dropped a Bridge On Him, was about characters being permenantly removed from their medium. If you didn't know who Bridget was, you'd think that this was similar, when nothing of the sort happens. The other "more fun" titles at least clue you in on what it's about. Even if you didn't know who Gwen Stacy was, you could guess that I Let Gwen Stacy Die was about someone feeling guilty about another's death. Even if you didn't know what Stormtroopers were, you could at least guess that Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy was about accuracy. This goes for science too- "quirky" names will at least be somewhat related to what it's describing. Dropped A Bridget On Him doesn't have that. I miss the title too, but I think this is for the better.

Also, if it makes you feel any better, Dropped a Bridget on Him is back as a disambiguation page.
04:17:03 PM May 17th 2012
I am a little confused...does this trope really apply to situations where Bob finds out that Alice was born male? Or is it only when Alice is a crossdresser/androgynous looking dude? I feel like there's a whole can of worms to be opened here...
11:07:20 AM May 21st 2012
I think it would only apply if Bob falls for Alice as a girl, then finds out she's a he.
03:55:31 PM Jul 13th 2012
Except that's not what a lot of the examples show.
02:26:36 PM Feb 8th 2012
edited by DeadlyGrim
Where the heck did the conversation on the name change go? (You can still see the conversation in Google's cache)
01:09:48 AM Feb 19th 2012
Well, I guess it's not in the cache anymore. :(
10:00:27 PM Oct 26th 2011
Topic image is...Chrono Crusade fanart?
02:03:40 PM Dec 14th 2011
No, it's from Guilty Gear.
02:10:21 PM Dec 14th 2011
It's from the webcomic Dueling Analogs, if I remember correctly.
02:11:51 PM Dec 14th 2011
If so, could you link the image to the source?
10:32:05 PM Sep 7th 2011
Change the quote, because the old one was offensive to those who don't like being called traps. I don't think being derogatory will help anyone. Is there a problem with that?
01:55:21 PM Jan 15th 2011
  • The Singer of River City Rollers, is a man, even though he sounds and looks like a woman.

What are the "River City Rollers?" Googling the term doesn't turn up anything plausible. Did you mean the Bay City Rollers, maybe? That would be Dude Looks Like a Lady, in any case.
11:44:20 AM Sep 14th 2010
Folks — I fully agree that the offensive use of "it" to refer to a transgender person, as well as the offensive use of "he" to refer to trans women or "she" to refer to trans men, should be corrected. Trans people get enough crap and using the wrong pronouns just adds insult to injury.

But please, don't strikethrough the insult and put the correct word in its place. JUST FIX IT. Thanks.
08:08:21 PM Jan 2nd 2012
Co-signed. Especially with the quotes around "he" or "she". If they identify as female or male, they should be referred to as such.

Transphobia and misgendering :| no me gusta.
09:02:28 PM Feb 4th 2012
The quotation marks seem reasonable, to me. If transgender is the topic, then it makes sense to indicate that someone is trans, and the quotation marks seem like the best way to do that while maintaining neutrality on the subject. (And, no matter how strongly you feel about the subject, you do have to recognize that transgender is a very controversial issue and therefore the wiki should probably remain neutral in its pages.) I can certainly see how it would be annoying to some, but it's not reasonable to think of it as being an insult or derogatory.

Of course... I'm not sure what this has to do with the trope. It's my understanding that this trope is about people disguising their gender, or just honest mistakes, which is very different from someone actually considering themselves to be the opposite gender. (A woman disguising herself as a man to join the military is not comparable to an ftm transgender individual.)
03:57:18 PM Jul 13th 2012
>The quotation marks seem reasonable, to me.


>maintaining neutrality on the subject

BBC style "let's have both views" is not neutrality, it's the illusion of.

>It's my understanding that this trope is about people disguising their gender

The fact that the movie section starts with the Crying Game tells me it's not how the editors see it.
03:17:21 PM Jul 13th 2010
Wait, Reverse Trap redirects to Bifauxnen, but it's an alt title according to this page...
04:45:09 PM Jun 28th 2010
edited by
sheik from zelda OOT is a man. ruto, a man eating whore, calls him a man, sheik himself, in the spanish translation of the game, refers to the male variations of words (im a warrior of the sheikahs in spanish can either be "soy una guerrera de los sheikahs" -female, or "soy un guerrero de los sheikahs" - male, and the one used in the translation). also, one is to assume the characters are talking, so he would have a male voice. also, the artwork of sheik and link back to playing playing their instruments, its hard not to notice bulge down there. this is a case of magically changing sex, ala ranma 1/2. sheik is a man, zelda uses magic to transform into him. of course, future games featuring him would call him a she because they dont want to confuse dumb people with the fact that when zelda turns into sheik, she changes sex.
08:33:29 AM Oct 6th 2011
edited by lakewharton
The real reason for the turnover is the sensibilities of Nintendo of America. They have retconned crossdressing characters several times, the biggest of which being Birdo.If you notice, the trophy for him in SSB: Melee refers to him as a him, but the trophy for him in SSB: Brawl refers to him as a her. But yes, the Japanese still consider Sheik a man, and since it was their game first, I'll go by their say.
08:40:19 AM Oct 6th 2011
It's a disguise, people. It doesn't mean she physically changed herself to be a man, it only means she magically changed herself to look and sound like a man.

Also, 201, were it not for the fact your post was a year old, I'd just wipe it out myself for the stupid bile in it. I mean, "Man eating whore"? Really?
01:39:26 AM May 3rd 2010
LOLWHUT. "Happens to Greed in one Fullmetal Alchemist OVA in which he flirts with "Winry" actually Envy, who is male in this version." Envy is male in EVERY version. Or at least, as male as it is possible for a shapeshifter to be.
09:47:06 PM Nov 24th 2011
Envy in the manga is genderless.
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