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Ackslawsin
topic
10:00:25 AM Feb 28th 2011
The actor playing the undertaker was Bill in Day of The Dead, right? So should we add an Actor Allusion considering he's surrounded by the dead?
Kurzon
topic
01:29:03 PM Feb 18th 2011
Near the end of the film, La Boeuf knocks out Chaney to rescue Mattie, but neglects to kill or tie up Chaney. Chaney later regains consciousness, sneaks up on La Boeuf and drops a rock on him.

This is not the first time I see a hero commit this mistake, where they knock out a villain and forget about him, and don't ensure he is truly neutralized. It's especially stupid when a cop makes this mistake. Is there a named trope for this?
Wanderhome
topic
07:51:55 PM Jan 5th 2011
The wrap-up of the remake (with the adult Mattie) strikes me as a Downer Ending, but there appears to be some disagreement on that. In the wrap-up, Mattie hears from Cogburn for the first time since he left her with the medicine man when he sends her a letter indicating that he'd like her to meet him so they can talk about old times. By the time Mattie arrives, he's been dead for three days.

Mattie has Cogburns body exhumed and moved to a grave she can visit regularly. Apparently Cogburn died without any family or loved ones to object. Mattie says that she visits the grave every day, and that people whisper about what a weird old maid she is to care so much about a man she barely knew. Apparently, she has no close friends whom she feels comfortable talking about her experiences with.

Mattie has not seen or heard from La Beouf since she shot Chaney. She closes the film musing about how time moves fast and lives go quick.

If that's not a Downer Ending, what is?
JackMackerel
12:19:10 AM Jan 7th 2011
A downer ending would be if Mattie died horribly and nothing of value was achieved. The best you can argue is a Bittersweet Ending, because Mattie lives and Rooster and La Boeuf get their bounties.
Wanderhome
07:09:51 PM Jan 7th 2011
You seem to be confusing a Downer Ending and a Shoot the Shaggy Dog. You could make the argument for Bittersweet Ending, but only because there's a large degree of overlap between the two. I'd still argue for calling it a Downer Ending, because while the climactic shootout has a positive outcome, the ultimate wrap-up is solidly in downer territory.
JackMackerel
07:21:58 PM Jan 7th 2011
A Shoot the Shaggy Dog is a Downer Ending. Regardless, Mattie's life is still saved, and even if Rooster died before meeting Mattie again, it's not portrayed as sad.
Wanderhome
10:47:37 PM Jan 8th 2011
But it is. For Christ's sake, the last shot is of an old, one-armed Mattie looking at Cogburn's grave while it starts to snow, while in the voice-over she wonders whether La Beouf is still alive, and wishes they had met.
JackMackerel
06:22:32 PM Jan 11th 2011
It's a Distant Finale, and the outcome of this story is good. Like I said, a Downer Ending would be much more crushing. Bittersweet Ending is what you're looking for.
Wanderhome
08:26:25 PM Jan 11th 2011
edited by Wanderhome
It is a Distant Finale. It is not a Bittersweet Ending. A Bittersweet Ending would be something like: Mattie still looses the arm, La Beouf still isn't heard from, but Mattie manages to get toghether with Cogburn one last time, or something. This is a Downer Ending.
Jumpingzombie
topic
09:51:41 AM Jan 1st 2011
Would it be too objectionable, if I change the description around so that it focused more on describing the overall story and then talking about the adaptations? Normally, I wouldn't do this, but the remake/second adaptation has not only proven to be an objectively good film and is at least up there with the original, but has brought the book a little bit back into the spotlight and more people seem to be aware of it. Right now, the page just seems focused on the John Wayne movie.
HonoreDB
topic
10:23:46 PM Dec 24th 2010
Needs a revamp to incorporate the remake, but unfortunately I haven't seen the original. *hangs head*
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