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OrangeAipom
topic
08:30:53 AM Sep 9th 2014
Why would an Instant Death Bullet to the shoulder be realistic?
Larkmarn
08:49:03 AM Sep 9th 2014
Where does it say Instant Death Bullet?
petrus4
topic
06:51:22 AM Jun 1st 2013
edited by 69.172.221.6
An addition that I would make to "Tropes are bad," is the reason why I've been trying unsuccessfully to wean myself off this site, for probably the last 18 months now.

Something I realised during my third LSD trip, is that "tropinese," is essentially another form of New Speak. In other words, we run a serious risk of ending up in a scenario where pre-fabricated tropes and memes, constitute our entire vocabulary. Robert Jay Lifton described that very practice as one of the core elements of mind control; he referred to it as, "loading of the language."

I've been watching a number of the videos of Doug Walker and friends recently, and they have been providing good examples of what I'm talking about, here. The degree to which Nostalgia Chick in particular uses pop culture as an actual language, is genuinely frightening.

Another related, serious issue that I have with this site, is the belief that nothing new exists under the sun, or that every single idea that possibly can be developed, already has been. I'm not even necessarily saying that that assumption is false; but I *do* know that being a jaded arbitrary skeptic who insists that they've seen it all before, and that literally everything belongs in a pre-existing neat box, is seriously detrimental to a person's thinking.

To me, this site honestly does have disturbing implications, for the idea of intellectual freedom.
PolarPhantom
09:23:29 AM Jun 19th 2013
edited by 70.33.253.45
I suppose you make some good points. TV Tropes Will Ruin Your Vocabulary is certainly an issue, and hopefully we can all start working backwards from that. I don't know what the site itself can do, but the first step, I'd say, is making people aware of the issue.

I will say that I believe all our ideas come from our experiences, that that which exists in the Universe is all we can know or conceive. I take comfort, however, in the idea that the Universe may be infinite, and that there is just so much mystery in it that we have barely scratched the surface off.

I share your sentiments about jaded cynics who've "seen it all before". To me, they're doing themselves a great disservice. I definitely don't think all ideas are in some "neat box", it's more like some sprawling, chaotic jungle island resting in a sea of turmoil. Ideas and stories are free as plants and the wind. I would say this site has helped me better appreciate the intricacies of stories and writing, but I also think improvements can be made.
T448Eight
topic
04:44:06 PM Mar 7th 2013
I think there should be one more thing in "Tropes are bad". It would go something like this:

Tropes Are 2X4's Tropes don't observe themes, they simply show the things in a theme. Therefore, they are not always idea for setting up a story.
T448Eight
04:46:40 PM Mar 7th 2013
I made too many comments on accident...
NimmerStill
topic
11:39:37 AM Jul 13th 2012
"There is a reason why we have an entire category devoted to Acceptable Breaks from Reality. That category only applies to video games, but there are some good non-video game examples as well."

No it doesn't. Someone should fix that.
TARINunit9
topic
01:40:32 AM Jan 24th 2012
Suggestion: mention something about how using "Tropes Are Not Bad" is a common, now obsolete Pothole that a lot of Justifying Edits like to use to mitigate the sour taste of stereotypically-negative tropes (like Executive Meddling).
Stoogebie
06:38:42 AM Apr 3rd 2013
edited by Stoogebie
Sometimes even Strawman Has a Point. I checked out Purple Prose and despite the very clearly defined definition of this trope, many people had their own idea of what it meant. Basically:

1. Purple Prose is any use of flowery, extensively descriptive narrative that can be done well.

2. Purple Prose is by its very nature a bad trope, and if a flowery narrative manages to be done well, it can't be Purple Prose.

Methinks there needs to be reminders that Tropes Are Like The Force; they can be used for good or evil.
Euodiachloris
topic
01:47:11 PM Jan 7th 2012
edited by Euodiachloris
What happened to the Pratchett quote? Was it not good enough to move to the quotes section when taken off the main page?

Yes, I understand the aversion to the word 'cliché', but that ignores the fact that at the time Terry wrote that line 'trope' was not exactly an everyday word. Strictly speaking, it still isn't. One man's 'trope' is another man's 'cliché'.
Insignificant
topic
01:54:53 PM Nov 11th 2011
This page should not be referencing stuff like Magnificent Bastard or Moment Of Awesome. Those are subjective. We don't consider subjective stuff tropes anymore, and Audience Reactions are definitely not tools. They're how an audience perceives and reacts to a work.
Stoogebie
06:42:55 AM Apr 3rd 2013
edited by Stoogebie
They can certainly be invoked. Certain elements of a story can add up to such stuff as Moment Of Awesome (ie: Awesome Music, Dying Moment of Awesome, Heroic Sacrifice, Forgiveness, Stuff Blowing Up...) and Magnificent Bastard (Xanatos Gambit, The Chessmaster, Lelouch Vi Britannia), and both have the potential to screw up. See what I mean?
C2
topic
12:34:02 AM Oct 14th 2011
Does this include Unfortunate Implications?
moonytheloony
topic
06:20:21 AM Sep 16th 2011
I'm just wondering, why would Action Girl be thought of as bad? Since a lot of people seem to dislike Damsel in Distress (causing the creation of Damsel Scrappy), it seems kind of weird.
Stoogebie
06:45:43 AM Apr 3rd 2013
edited by 69.172.221.2
Because some people tend to see Action Girl as automatically meaning "a Straw Feminist Blood Knight who likes to mutilate phalli", instead of simply "a girl who kicks ass". Damned if you do...
Tweeit
topic
02:55:53 PM Apr 17th 2011
This article needs a big "in my opinion" at the top of it. Tropes ARE BAD - if i see too many in in the trailer even I'm not going to watch it. If there are more than 2 in a show i don't return.

Tropes are writers being lazy, and whilst one dude may wish to sing their praises it shouldn't be presented as a fact.
Komodin
03:09:21 PM Apr 17th 2011
edited by Komodin
So, how do you enjoy.... well, damn near any piece of fiction in existence, then?
SpellBlade
04:24:49 PM Apr 17th 2011
Tropes =/= Cliches

It's even on the Home Page.
MrDeath
08:08:59 AM Apr 18th 2011
Yeah, Tweeit, you're a little confused. You're talking about cliches, not tropes. Tropes are the basic building blocks of all fiction—if you're watching something with no tropes, that means the television is turned off.
Grobi
05:47:16 AM May 30th 2011
See also: The Tropeless Tale.
Peter34
03:53:38 PM Aug 18th 2011
Tweeit, it is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to have any piece of non-interactive fiction, of a length of more than 3 minutes, that contains 2 or fewer tropes. It CANNOT be done.
Webby
02:17:13 PM Nov 4th 2011
edited by Webby
The Hero is a trope. Love Interest is a trope. Story Arc is a trope. Those are all incredibly basic, versatile concepts.

And besides, who is "my"? All of TV Tropes? Articles oughtn't reference the writer.
SullyXY
topic
01:56:31 PM Feb 13th 2011
I cannot see it anywhere on this site, and maybe it is, but it cannot be stressed enough that a lot of writers just write from the heart and don't do what they do deliberately. As a writer ( not professional ) myself, it's disheartening to read this website and see it list everything I ever thought was a good idea....not that I thought it was original in the first place, but it was original to me when I thought it up.

Listing them all out like this, and having this page ( implying that artists and writers use tropes consciously ) somewhat makes it look like most stories were written using trope books, and that's just not true.
PolarPhantom
07:49:05 PM May 26th 2013
Try not to be disheartened. Just about everything has been thought of before, stories are cyclical like that. Sure, most authors don't consciously use tropes, but storytelling as a medium has existed for as long as human civilisation, so certain recurring elements are bound to be picked up by an attentive audience. I know your comment's old, and it's probably not an issue anymore, but please remember, this site is about recognising these techniques and cataloging them in the hopes of enriching people's enjoyment or skill at the crafting of stories. Other than that, I, for one, agree with you that stories aren't written with guidebooks. I mean, what would be the point if that were the case?
LaLiLuLeLo
topic
08:57:38 PM Sep 28th 2010
edited by LaLiLuLeLo
"Moments of Awesome" is misspelled "Moments of Awseome". I'd edit it, but yeah...
player03
12:20:20 PM Apr 3rd 2012
Also, I'm pretty sure "indexically" should be "identically."
randomtroper89
04:24:17 PM Nov 22nd 2012
Yeah, and My Name Is Inigo Montoya needs to be replaced with Heroic Second Wind
CaptainRiker
topic
08:47:59 PM Sep 19th 2010
You're harshing free expression with this lock, man
Stoogebie
06:51:32 AM Apr 3rd 2013
Dear Captain Riker: Freedom is power, and with great power Comes Great Responsibility. Sadly, there are many trolls out there who will abuse their power and fuck up the page, so for the safety of this page and Your Mom, the lock must be had.
notamisfit
topic
05:48:16 AM Jun 6th 2010
Thought about adding another line, something about how subversions/deconstructions aren't necessarily evidence good writing; which heading do you think this would fall under, Tropes Are Not Bad or Tropes Are Not Good?
PolarPhantom
07:50:29 PM May 26th 2013
Good, definitely.
SomeSortOfTroper
topic
08:08:29 AM Apr 28th 2010
It seems that every adjustment that Evilest Tim makes to the page subtly alters it meaning negatively. I wish he would cease.
Evilest_Tim
05:25:16 AM Apr 29th 2010
edited by Evilest_Tim
I don't see what you mean in the slightest. The first heading is a plain and simple lie in its current format; nothing is totally new, that's true, but nothing new at all is stretching the concept beyond a factual statement and into the realm of fanboy logic used to excuse copy-paste plotting. As it stands now, the second line actually contradicts the first; the first basically declares it impossible to be original, the second says there's a difference between being influenced and being overly derivative. How can that be, if there's no way for anything to be new? To settle which is true, I can come up with something new right now: a mob drama set in 30s Chicago plotting the rise and fall of a Mafia family as they battle against a sentient earthquake. Doubt anyone's tried that before.  *

As for the second, the opening line adds nothing to the section other than repeating the well-worn argument that reality is tiresome and dull and thus something you necessarily want to escape; the paragraph functions perfectly well without having such a dubious claim in it.
SomeSortOfTroper
04:43:48 PM May 3rd 2010
It's a saying, a several thousand year old saying, not a literal truth.
Evilest_Tim
04:21:55 AM May 10th 2010
Yeah, but it's addressed on the page as if it is a literal truth, that's my issue with it.
SomeSortOfTroper
03:28:24 PM May 10th 2010
Not really. We also do not claim that Thor exists nor do we make any literal claims about his metal-working abilities.
TorchicBlaziken
topic
10:34:58 AM Apr 23rd 2010
So... Bad Writing isn't bad?
TorchicBlaziken
10:37:49 AM Apr 23rd 2010
Well I guess it ISN'T bad, when They Plotted a Perfectly Good Waste, or when it's So Bad, It's Good.
Evilest_Tim
05:30:24 AM Apr 29th 2010
edited by Evilest_Tim
There's a few tropes that actually are bad, though mostly things that aren't tropes per se. Game Breaking Bugs springs to mind, since they're bad by definition, otherwise they're Good Bad Bugs.
LordBojangles
02:58:14 PM Nov 17th 2010
Bad Writing or Game Breaking Bugs are bad, but they're not bad because they're tropes, if that makes sense.
SomeSortOfTroper
03:14:16 PM Nov 17th 2010
While that is true and gets to the heart of the page...Bad Writing and Game Breaking Bugs aren't tropes.
PolarPhantom
07:53:36 PM May 26th 2013
What if a bad game has Game Breaking Bugs, said bugs stop you from playing the game, and the game is bad for reasons that have nothing to do with the bugs, so fixing them would not improve the game's quality at all?

That makes little sense.
Sylocat
topic
11:45:59 PM Mar 20th 2010
I don't mean to launch an Edit War, but the Action quote, although long, fits the theme perfectly.
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