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topic
07:44:49 AM Jan 18th 2014
How is saying "this level is usually reserved for God and the Author" offensive? It's not swearing, it's referring to an actual God.
mewarmo990
topic
07:37:14 AM Oct 9th 2013
edited by 76.172.88.137
I reorganized the introductory section while keeping it mostly the same. It still had some vestiges of "power levels" in it, so I have clarified those areas to emphasize the scope of character abilities, rather than pure strength.
rottenvenetic
03:49:58 AM Nov 23rd 2013
edited by 79.114.55.134
Regarding this exact change, there are definitely more than vestiges of power levels in the examples, most commonly between types 3 and 4 (to a lesser extent 5).

By which I mean that, in works with numerous tier 3s, the most skilled/experienced/formidable are placed in tier 4 to put them above the "normal" supers.

For example, in Harry Potter, Voldemort, Dumbledore, Grindelwald, house elves and any rightful owner of the Elder Wand are tier 4'd without ever showing that kind of personal effect on their surroundings.

With something like a year of absolute power, Voldy is able to wreak incomplete devastation on Magical Britain (apparently a small disparate and vulnerable community of several thousands) and some not-really-significant damage on mundane Britain (a small-ish country with a large, compact population), using an army of wizards and magical creatures (notably all of the Dementors are entirely on his side). A tier 4 villain is capable of worse havoc by itself with no aid from any Mooks; Riddle, whose most compelling displays of power are killing a large number of people at once when they're confined in one (large?) room and already in awe of and terrified of him, generally making most people soil themselves in dread at the thought of him due to his monstrous crimes combined with martial success and not-dying until the very end of the series despite losing at least one body (his original) outright.

If Super Weight were to include one's armies and minions than the likes of Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin would rate as tier 4 at least, if not borderline 5 (Stalin moreso, since the Soviet Union already had working nukes in his lifetime).

Death itself is rated tier 6 as a "character" based on its appearance as such in a Story Within a Story; this is a little suspect as well.

Another example: Claymore's resident heavy hitter the Destroyer (a unique awakened being motivated solely to destroy everything around itself, born from the merger of two sisters, one awakened already and one an unawakened hybrid, who kinda-died while both on the wrong side of the Despair Event Horizon) is able to destroy (at most) a few square miles of forest, infect a few characters and spawn a bunch of D-list awakened beings. The Destroyer is rated at 5, while the tiers' descriptions would peg it at a borderline case between 3 and 4, with everyone from Clarice (weak enough to be comparable to an unaugmented human) through all Youma, warriors, Awakened and Abyssals up to Priscilla (undefeated even by the Destroyer) being clear 3's. Priscilla can presumably mop the floor with 10,000 Clarices in one sitting (possibly while literally sitting) but she is still just a Super, limited to affecting only her close vicinity. Certainly she is not in any way in the league of, say, Darkseid or Sarah Kerrigan.
Morgenthaler
topic
01:59:20 PM Mar 30th 2013
Should this page be moved to the Just for Fun namespace?
IndirectActiveTransport
09:05:11 PM Apr 3rd 2014
Before I would have said yes, now I'm not too sure since the page has mutated into something far away from its original self.
DonaldthePotholer
topic
08:49:11 PM Jun 1st 2012
edited by DonaldthePotholer
All right, I want to get something straight here. Again. (reference: Archived Discussion)

From the last paragraph of the description before the table, Emphasis mine:

Also note that this isn't Gushing About Characters You Like; when adding examples, make realistic assessments of their power level according to the scale and in terms of the setting.

Note the words I bolded: "in terms of the setting". To me, this means that In a World where Everyone Is a Super, that most Supers would rate 0 or 1. (Can I get an a-men from Syndrome here?) But it seems like the entries of the scale are classed by our definition of "normal" and not the setting's.

Can you fly? Even though it's normal for your species and said species is listed on your world's census forms? That makes you a Class 2 at minimum! (yay.)

"I cast Magic Missile." Congratulations, level 1 Mage, you're Class 3!

Now, Archived Discussion seems to have come out in favor of a Real Life-based scale and the examples favor this interpretation. However, it makes all that talk of "based on setting" meaningless.

I don't know; perhaps all I need to do is change the contradicting statement to indicate that the scale is based on our world and not the fictional setting, with an added note that the threats of those settings are usually scaled to match the setting's average power level.
Cider
01:54:11 PM Nov 30th 2012
Well, in the original proposed and launched you know the thing where entry it was universal across the board, regardless of setting.

Rank Inflation there were also only five categories]] and I really don't like what the page has since become because it only changed in response to those who wanted to treat it like the then locked page Who Would Win, so making it strictly setting by setting would put a damper on that.

There are my two arguments for either action.
Morgenthaler
01:58:53 PM Mar 30th 2013
Agreed. The line seems inherently contradictory, and we should probably amend it to cut out that part.
mewarmo990
02:50:27 AM Oct 9th 2013
edited by 76.172.88.137
As it's been nearly a year with no objections, I will go ahead and amend the line to omit "based on the setting". This is more consistent with the current criteria of the weight categories.
Masterweaver
topic
09:58:09 AM Mar 16th 2012
I've started a Super Weight listing for H Omestuck. it's probably missing a lot, any help would be appreciated!
EarlOfSandvich
topic
06:32:11 AM Feb 22nd 2012
edited by EarlOfSandvich
Moved a few genres into their own subpages (Anime and Manga, Comics, Video Games [this in particular making up a huge bulk of the entries here]). Just wondering about what anyone else thinks here...
HamburgerTime
topic
06:45:37 PM Feb 21st 2012
Does a Type 7 have to be completely, utterly, entirely, absolutely 100% confirmed to be no-limits-whatsoever omnipotent, or is there some wiggle room? Particularly I'm wondering about the Marvel Universe's Living Tribunal character, who displays a level of power beyond basically anything else in that setting. It's shown that the wielder of the Infinity Gauntlet, to which the Anthropomorphic Personifications of the universe are like ants, is itself like an ant to the Tribunal, as he could turn the gauntlet off and restore all it destroyed by snapping his fingers. There was also a one-shot comic in the '90s that implied that he was far greater than the entire DC and Marvel Multiverses put together. Though it's been rare, he has demonstrated limits, as there's an unseen being even higher than him and he couldn't escape being absorbed into the Heart of the Infinite in Marvel: The End (though he could resist it for a time), but apart from that he has consistently shown that he can bend the plot basically any way he likes. That sounds pretty "Author Weight" to me.
pyr0h1tman8
10:20:05 AM Feb 22nd 2012
Well, the way I've understood it is that they have to be absolutely, no wiggle room, 100% omnipotent. Anything lower than that and they are "just" a Type 6.
Jjp7123
04:57:40 PM Dec 14th 2013
edited by 69.116.37.217
Actually, no. There are four exceptions I found for you to be classified as a Type 7 without being fully Omnipotent(there might be more): Nigh Omnipotence: http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Nigh_Omnipotence Ultipotence: http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Ultipotence Piathifery(if powerful enough): http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Pathifery Cyberpotence: http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Cyberpotence Sorry I'm a little late :P LOL!

ading
12:35:54 PM Mar 9th 2014
@Jjp: Have you actually had any discussion on this matter? If not I don't think your word can be taken officially. The description says that Type 7 must be absolutely omnipotent.
pyr0h1tman8
topic
05:32:16 PM Feb 21st 2012
Okay, this is asking a question to those more familiar with Digimon:

Is there any evidence as to whether the thing that sealed Zeedmilleniummon was omnipotent?
HamburgerTime
06:58:22 PM Feb 21st 2012
edited by HamburgerTime
We know nothing about what the being above ZMM is, except that it sealed ZMM. There is, however, a mysterious "God" entity mentioned in various Digimon's official profiles, apparently distinct from both Yggdrasil and ENIAC (the host computers that run the Digital World). Daemon's profile in particular implies that this being is the human who originally programmed the Digital World, and who now resides within it. That's probably the best guess to what sealed ZMM. Outskirts Battledome, for what it's worth, ranks "God" and ZeedMillenniumon as being of the same power.
pyr0h1tman8
10:16:53 AM Feb 22nd 2012
Ah. Then would it be a Type 6?
EarlOfSandvich
topic
05:04:00 AM Feb 10th 2012
edited by EarlOfSandvich
The works in this thread have been moved to respective discussions. Please scrap.
EarlOfSandvich
05:08:10 AM Feb 10th 2012
edited by EarlOfSandvich
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EarlOfSandvich
05:08:30 AM Feb 10th 2012
edited by EarlOfSandvich
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EarlOfSandvich
05:09:23 AM Feb 10th 2012
edited by EarlOfSandvich
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EarlOfSandvich
05:09:52 AM Feb 10th 2012
edited by EarlOfSandvich
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EarlOfSandvich
05:10:58 AM Feb 10th 2012
edited by EarlOfSandvich
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KingZeal
10:07:29 AM Feb 14th 2012
I'm going to break comic books into categories based on what "family" they originate from. (X-Men, Bat-Family, Wildstorm, etc.) It's becoming too difficult to keep them organized otherwise.
EarlOfSandvich
topic
05:03:06 AM Feb 10th 2012
edited by EarlOfSandvich
The works in this thread have been moved to respective discussions. Please scrap.
EarlOfSandvich
topic
05:02:17 AM Feb 10th 2012
edited by EarlOfSandvich
The works in this thread have been moved to respective discussions. Please scrap.
EarlOfSandvich
topic
05:00:51 AM Feb 10th 2012
edited by EarlOfSandvich
The works in this thread have been moved to respective discussions. Please scrap.
EarlOfSandvich
topic
04:51:04 AM Feb 10th 2012
edited by EarlOfSandvich
Please scrap this thread too
EarlOfSandvich
04:52:40 AM Feb 10th 2012
edited by EarlOfSandvich
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EarlOfSandvich
04:54:30 AM Feb 10th 2012
edited by EarlOfSandvich
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EarlOfSandvich
04:58:51 AM Feb 10th 2012
edited by EarlOfSandvich
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EarlOfSandvich
04:59:23 AM Feb 10th 2012
edited by EarlOfSandvich
content moved to subpage discussion. Please discard this post
EarlOfSandvich
topic
04:49:23 AM Feb 10th 2012
Well, a new system has been decisively decided upon through the Trope Repair Shop. I will be listing off the works in need of repair to reflect the new system.
VVK
topic
07:54:46 AM Dec 2nd 2011
About Sluggy Freelance:

It may be hard to explain how Bun-bun doesn't have any superpowers, seeing as he can pick up and toss beings several times his own size. But there is also no indication that he's really supposed to have any, ie. that it's not just a case of Rule of Funny / Rule of Cool.

On the other hand, "holiday emperor Bun-bun" - He was slowly warping (holiday related) reality with his mind and preparing to take over the world. http://www.sluggy.com/comics/archives/daily/20040104 Level 4 seems to be the best bet.
VVK
02:58:17 AM Dec 10th 2011
Why would Oasis and Kusari be 3? A list of their powers would be almost the same as a vampire's.
RandomGMan
topic
05:58:33 PM Oct 28th 2011
edited by RandomGMan
I have a few queries.

1: For Doctor Who, shouldn't the Cybermen be Type 2? They are superhumanly strong, but not in a class with Time War Daleks.

2: Shouldn't the Star Whale be a Type 3? It has a lot of raw power, but is not a true Reality Warper (at least not by Doctor Who standards).

3: While the Silence is easily one of the most formidable forces in the Whoniverse, the alien manipulators can be overcome in small numbers.

4: Why is Data a Type 3? (See Cybermen query above).

5: In raw musclepower, Applejack is the strongest of the Mane Six. This would put her on the same level as most of her friends.
TheMalignancy
11:42:21 AM Nov 22nd 2011
edited by TheMalignancy
1: All civilizations with access to time travel are tier 4, by default. The Cybermen, having superhuman strength/intelligence/logical thought are a low tier 3 at highest and a mid tier 2 at lowest. Not too sure which, and fairly certain it depends on how competent the writers have decided to make them. For context the Time Lords are tier 5, generally serving as more background detail and narrative devices rather than actual characters.

2: Yep.

3: Silence are type 2 highest, and one of the many things this scale is ill-designed to judge due to their memory thing.

4: No idea.

5: All ponies are tier two by default, due to being ponies and only having one power each. Not sure why they're on the fighting ability index, what with being all hugs and rainbows, but hey.
RandomGMan
07:15:04 PM Dec 3rd 2011
edited by RandomGMan
1: I think there should be a distinction between individual power and collective power. Individually, Cybermen would be at least Type 2. Collectively - as with many space opera civilizations - they must be at least a high Type 3. Time travel access is a matter of degree, because even 20th century humans have limited time travel in the Whoniverse. Collectively, the superpowers of the Whoniverse (Time Lords, Last Daleks, Silence, Osirians etc) would be very very high Type 4, with the Time Lords having the potential to ascend to Type 5 if the Final Sanction is anything to go by.

5: For some reason, Applejack is Type 1 while all her (canonically) physically weaker friends are Type 2. However, her strength is clearly more akin to Spiderman than Batman. And Twilight is a Type 3 if I ever saw one.

And the ponies aren't all hugs and rainbows. They're the fightingest, badassest, awesomest ponies you ever saw.
Hydronix
topic
03:26:20 PM Sep 24th 2011
Wait, if Shadow The Hedgehog is clearly more powerful than Sonic, and can do a lot of stuff based upon Super Weight 3, how is he considered a 2? Sonic can barely beat him, and he's almost as powerful as a Super Form as is. Why is he 2?
KingZeal
03:40:47 PM Sep 24th 2011
Being somewhat familiar with the character, I'd say that Shadow w/o a Chaos Emerald is a Class 2. Shadow w/ a Chaos Emerald is a Class 3. Super Shadow is a more powerful Class 3.
Hydronix
04:13:31 PM Sep 24th 2011
Ah, okay. Thanks.
SiFi
topic
02:42:26 AM Aug 19th 2011
So would Maxwell be a Type 6?
HamburgerTime
topic
11:52:09 PM Aug 5th 2011
I'd like to question the inclusion of Krona as a Type 5. Wasn't he explicitly less powerful than Nekron? I haven't read Trinity or JLA-Avengers; did his power increase in either of those?
Ramidel
topic
01:24:46 PM Aug 5th 2011
Kisei, does any Overlord top Laharl's two big displays of power? (Destroying the entire EDF fleet, solo, while holding back, and being the only Overlord to canonically defeat Baal.)

Because I think that winning a Curb-Stomp Battle by firepower is a call to put a character either in or above the other character's tier (or to drag Baal down a level and I'm not prepared to do that).
Ramidel
topic
07:24:47 AM Jul 20th 2011
I'm thinking that Dragon Age is a Long List, but one composed mainly of people who can be separated by their Character Class or other type of being. Should I chop the list down?
TheMalignancy
topic
07:50:49 AM May 20th 2011
Okay, I hate to be the one who point this put but this scale is just plain terrible. The problem with the tier structure is that everyone keeps judging people comparative to other people in their works (for example we end up with Fred being ranked as a class higher than Bob due to him being shown as more powerful in the show, whereas in actuality they're both the same rank when doing it by the actual criteria). It's also completely none-indicative of its actual purpose, which is to sort out who would win in a theoretical fight.

Take the ever-present Haruhi, for example. She's listed as a class 5, but she's completely unaware of her powers and could therefore quite easily be taken down by pretty much anyone physically stronger than a fifteen year old girl or even just anyone who could find a weapon.

As much fun as this page is, it's completely useless for what it's actually meant to be for. Is there any way we can sort this out?
Montegoraon
07:36:00 AM Jul 1st 2011
Adding to the above, the relative strengths of characters isn't even always as clear cut as these weight classes make it seem. Here's an example from the Shin Megami Tensei series: Nyx, the personification of death from Persona 3, is a class 5, unable to be defeated by the persona user player character because doing so would require altering the very nature of the universe (and given the series' metaphysics, would probably cause time itself to stop), which is quite simply beyond the purview of the abilities a persona user may have. Here's the problem. There are also characters in the series who are capable of existing betwixt and between time and space, and are capable of altering the nature of a universe, and even multiple universes simultaneously, as the Demi-Fiend does in his True Demon state. The Demi-Fiend does not qualify as a class 5 because he isn't any kind of force of nature, but he is explicitly capable of doing away with them, thus breaking the scale.
StarMeilene01
09:39:00 AM Aug 6th 2011
A true class 5 is something that alters reality just by being there. It is the force or personification of a concept and its existence corroborates the idea and vice versa. Nyx, being the personification of death itself cannot be destroyed without destroying death itself. She does and always will exist until the concept of dying is no longer part of reality. Consider Haruhi's situation, she warps reality, but unconsciously. If a normal person tried to take her down her subconscious would not accept it and quickly rewrite a portion of reality to accommodate a winning scenario. Any type 5 that exists is part of the Truth of that particular universe and cannot be ended but by a larger piece of truth changing.
TheMalignancy
07:57:31 AM Aug 23rd 2011
Book 11 proves that that's not true, and you could just stab her to death before she had time to react. Your scale doesnt work.
zoner16
01:28:25 PM Oct 19th 2011
If she is killed, then what happens to the world? Without the person who is essentially making things run the particular way they do, there are only two logical ends. One is that the world instantly reverts to how it was before she began messing with reality. The second is that it just ends (or falls apart) for want of the cornerstone it was built on. Unless she still existed as a consciousness or someone else instantly reabsorbed her powers it would not end well.
TheMalignancy
11:34:56 AM Nov 22nd 2011
edited by TheMalignancy
And? The point isn't the fate of the people who try to kill her (and they'd survive anyway, being a type 4 reality warper and her master), the point is that a type 4 was able to effortlessly very nearly kill a type 5 (and was stopped by a type 1). Seeing as the function of this list is to serve as a "who would win in a fight" list and the lower tiers are populated with people who could kick higher tier's asses already, we need to either re-shuffle or think of tier definitions that fail less.
Cider
04:55:50 PM Dec 5th 2011
The function of the list is what you can do, not who wins in a fight and is partially around just to keep gushing off of Person of Mass Destruction, Power Levels, Ratings Are Off The Scale and such.

If someone lacks the ability to be on type five four or whatever fix it. The scale has been put through the trope repair shop(could still be in their while you're reading this).
hoodiecrow
topic
01:01:35 AM Nov 26th 2010
edited by hoodiecrow
Motion Withdrawn.
78.15.205.74
topic
03:00:24 AM Nov 17th 2010
Guts could technically count as a type 3: He has a magic armor and his sword is somewhat "magical" being able to wound a member of the hand. His cnnon arm also technically qualifies him as a cyborg ( a rather low tech one though) and the mark gives him the ability to detect apostles.
174.101.173.157
topic
02:52:49 PM Oct 10th 2010
I'm kinda bothered by how a character's placement is followed immediately by a justification. It makes the whole thing look messier then it needs to be.  *
OldManHoOh
02:55:07 PM Oct 10th 2010
 *
88.110.135.86
topic
04:38:20 PM Sep 30th 2010
On the topic of the D&D weight classes, shouldnt the PC classes be segregated more by level rather than by class? Also on the same topic, would anyone be in favour of shifting the Lady of Pain into type 5 (she ticks all the boxes, and is type 5 in the Planescape: Torment section)?
HeartBurnKid
topic
06:15:56 PM Sep 29th 2010
On the WWE classes, I wasn't just putting the women as type 0 against men because they get beat by them; I put them there because they're always portrayed as completely and utterly helpless against men (male wrestlers, anyway). It's clearly meant to show the men as being a cut above the women.
Cider
04:51:30 PM Dec 5th 2011
Yeah, that should likely be fixed, unless the person is treating each match like it's own story.
rffrff
topic
12:57:16 AM Aug 8th 2010
edited by rffrff
isn't there a missing class for the mook and it's ilk? People who can almost always brutalize normal people but will always fail against the iron man.
OldManHoOh
06:59:53 AM Aug 8th 2010
My guess is that would be Class 0, with the citizens as -1.
Cider
04:52:36 PM Dec 5th 2011
Criminals fight a lot you'd assume. Depending on how well they'd be a 0 or 1 unless they had powers.
94.9.133.108
topic
12:40:05 PM Jul 21st 2010
Can anyone fix the comic book sections (DC, Marvel etc.) into various series? No such thing as notability and all that. Plus, DC and Marvel are publishers. Yes, there's a shared universe, but there's a reason why crossovers are called that. And does Vertigo even HAVE the same shared universe excuse the first two have?
94.9.179.3
topic
07:43:44 AM Jul 15th 2010
I think that as of the later David Tennant years, the Doctor may be pushing Type 3.
OldManHoOh
04:17:43 PM Jul 26th 2010
Though it's hard to tell how much of his power there is his Time Lord biology and how much is technology.
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