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dogman15
topic
02:23:40 PM Mar 9th 2010
The "car through the pane of glass" thing: All those examples are great, but what if the car goes through the glass and neither the glass nor the car breaks because the car phased through it somehow? Hmm?
piearty
02:59:54 AM Dec 28th 2010
edited by piearty
Subverted. Also; cool.
FreeRadical
02:22:37 PM Apr 8th 2011
Or...what if it worked like a Bait And Switch scenario: the car speeds through at breakneck pace, cut to men holding a sheet of glass, then back to the car with the driver looking panicked, then you see a close-up of a glass surface shattering, but then it turns out that was just a rock breaking a nearby window. It then pans out to show the car right in front of the sheet of glass...and then it phases through!
flamenemy
02:08:10 AM Apr 27th 2011
edited by flamenemy
The trope is again subverted. However, another trope comes into play and there's probably an entry that describes the close-up you mentioned. Too lazy to check it out right now.
jerodast
06:59:19 AM Jul 26th 2011
edited by jerodast
Sounds like a Cut Apart used to subvert the Sheet Of Glass, followed by a second subversion (not a Double Subversion) of the Sheet Of Glass :)
griffinmills
topic
04:40:47 PM Apr 25th 2010
Actual Subversion of a trope.
griffinmills
04:45:34 PM Apr 25th 2010
Doesn't an example have to be an actual subversion with intent or is it just literally, "every time an expectation is built up in the slightest and then have that expectation dashed?" Just because you start out a piece of art to go in an angle of, say, violence then change somewhere to an angle of peace doesn't make it a subverted trope, does it?

For an example of what brought this to mind look at the comic -> Watchmen example. Veidt is setup to be a good (gay? I never got that impression myself...) guy but he's really a bad guy... how is this some amazing "subverted trope" and not just part of the story? There is no law in art that everything must be exactly what it says on the tin.

Are all mystery novels giant super novas of subverted tropes? (I mean, more so than they are!)
68.48.42.208
07:47:29 AM Sep 27th 2010
Speaking of the Watchmen example, I moved it to film, because the description given just doesn't apply to the comic. Simply put, the possibility that Veidt might be gay is not given much attention in the comic, and certainly no one suggests that Veidt might not be a good fighter as a result. Rorschach, the only person who comments that Veidt might be gay also says that he can't imagine a more dangerous opponent.
jerodast
07:04:11 AM Jul 26th 2011
Frankly, the Watchmen example is a bad one from what I remember of the movie, but I'll leave it to someone who's more familiar to make the final cut. From what I can tell, it's simply Not A Subversion - if it's a requirement that Ambiguously Gay folks are bad at fighting, then it's averted, and if it's not a requirement, then his fighting ability has no effect on the trope at all (subverting it or otherwise).
jerodast
topic
07:05:02 AM Jul 26th 2011
edited by jerodast
This discussion addresses the "partial subversion" (mis)conception well. In short, even a complex trope with a couple (not all) elements subverted is still "completely" subverted - rarely does a work subvert every single one. Also, optional elements simply don't count for subversion, since an example is still an example regardless of those elements. I believe that should be explained here or on the Not A Subversion page, and I'll add that section shortly unless there are arguments.
KirbyRider
topic
04:18:05 PM Feb 6th 2012
What if the car goes through the pane of glass, merely leaves a hole through it, THEN the pane of glass shatters?
Komodin
04:31:10 PM Feb 6th 2012
That's Not A Subversion. It's either an example of the trope being played straight, or a Double Subversion of said trope.
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