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BritBllt
topic
02:29:11 PM Apr 12th 2010
edited by BritBllt
Deleting...

  • Tom Clancy's books are chock full of strawman liberals. Many people with liberal tendencies are stupid, evil, or more likely, both. In his book Executive Orders, Vice President Ed Kealty is the ultimate evil strawman liberal. However, there are some non-stupid non-evil liberal characters in prominent roles in the later Clancy novels, President Roger Durling and Senator Trent being two examples. Senator Trent is a particularly notable example, given that he's gay. None of the cast, however conservative, find his sexual orientation to be in any way objectionable, remarkable, or any of their business (even if Jack Ryan pretends to be a homophobic bigot to him once, with Senator Trent's cooperation, as part of selling a CIA disinformation campaign.)
    • He avoids the Strawman Liberal when it comes to his Presidential characters. He has a corrupt Republican, an incompetent Democrat, an honorable Democrat , and independent Author Avatar Jack Ryan.
      • Jack Ryan's chief of staff, Arnold van Damm, is another subversion of this trope; he's a liberal Democrat who worked for Ryan's two Democratic predecessors, but sticks with Jack because he likes Ryan and approves of his character even if he doesn't always agree with his policies. Van Damm gives crucial assistance to Jack on several occasions in Executive Orders in navigating through the shoals of high-level Washington politics.

For the last point, Not A Subversion. It's just an aversion, and trope aversions generally aren't relevant enough to be cited. As for the rest of it, if there's that many heroes and villains of every political stripe in his books, then it doesn't really sound like this trope. If his novels really do regularly set up liberals as strawmen, some specific examples of how they're used as strawmen might help make it clearer.
MarthWMaster
topic
03:27:50 PM Aug 17th 2010
I think this trope needs a better picture, since it's a better example of a parody than a strawman.
Paradoxx
topic
05:05:43 PM Aug 20th 2010
So, the bottom example about Futurama. It claims that that previous episode said that robot and human dating destroyed the world. But all I remember is a parody of a '50s scare film. Did anyone actually say that it had happened at some point, or was everyone involved just taught to believe it was true? I haven't seen the more recent episode in question, and I would not be the slightest bit shocked if it is actually full of Strawmen, but it seems like that entry should be reworded, or something.
84.45.130.100
topic
04:47:37 PM Dec 6th 2010
On the British TV comedy quiz show, QI, they say straw is actually a fairly robust material that can stand up to extreme weather. So maybe we should not be referring to weak political arguments as "Strawman" arguments. Maybe "Paperman" arguments? ;)
FastEddie
moderator
05:28:30 PM Dec 6th 2010
The use of 'strawman' is quite well established for this usage.
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