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loveanime
topic
08:48:44 AM Apr 19th 2012
What our most of the facial expressions the cast's do and what do they look like?? b/c i wanna be able to understand them when they do do them. Thank you
Confession0791
topic
03:23:39 AM Oct 20th 2011
How do we move this talk page to the new wikiname?
mack
05:05:46 AM Oct 20th 2011
edited by mack
It's probably going to change again anyway when someone gets around to moving everything from "main/icarly" to "series/icarly". Because that's what is meant to happen right?

It's in here I think it's the current way. Admins have to do it.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HowToMoveAPage

I've reported this page to be moved.

I doubt the mods will want to do the rest. There's nothing in there that we really need back I think.

Once this discussion page is moved, we then have the choice:

Cut list all the ptitle versions, or make them hard redirects.

I'd recommend the redirect to save the inbounds and any inbound links online.

Fighteer
moderator
topic
07:42:29 AM Oct 5th 2011
This article and several subpages are now locked due to persistent Shipping Wars. Nice job breaking it, guys.
mack
01:06:07 AM Oct 6th 2011
All other problems with shipping have been fixed in this discussion page (as can be seen, very minor and only a small number), but now theschwab34 has started on editing other's WMG pages (not for the first time) so I'd have to agree with a page lock until he can be talked to by mods to stop him from doing so. The shipping stuff is minor for me, and I use it in a way that follows the tropes we have for fandom/fan culture for me on tvtropes, mine has been sunk/abandoned for 2 years and I started on the page before any shipping happened, maybe he's just lashing out because his just got sunk/abandoned a couple weeks ago. It's just sad watching someone who doesn't care about the site itself causing issues ruining it for the rest of us just because he can't stand anyone's opinion but his own, even in specifically 'wild guessing' pages.

Thanks for taking action Fighteer.
theschwab91
11:47:57 AM Oct 7th 2011
edited by theschwab91
Actually, you are the problem Mack. You spread bias all through this T Vtropes pages. Also nothing got sunk. Sam Puckett and Freddie Benson love each other. You try to run the nuetral people off this trope site as well as seddie fans. I'm sorry i don't back away like others and let you get away with spreading falsehoods on these trope pages. Making stuff up like you do.

You hate Sam Puckett. You hate anything to do with Sam and Freddie. I fix the blatant falsehoods you add. So I would like to thank the mods for locking some of them. So you can't add any more BS to them.
mack
07:50:52 PM Oct 8th 2011
Yeah okay. You take this stuff way too seriously, hating a fictional character on a site that's about cataloguing their character builds with specific tropes is a ridiculous idea. I take what I see on screen and match it to existing tropes. The people who edit the page dealt with the so called "bias" (which ended up being a bare handful of tropes) earlier and nothing has changed.

As you can see, I asked above for a moratorium (that's a pause) on all shipping related tropes until the arc ended (or even the season), and instead you just kept editing things. So I left it alone then fixed it after it ended. If you work with people (like Carla did) you might find your time here more productive.

What has changed is you going around editing other people's WMG entries. Again. On a third or fourth article. That isn't right.
mack
topic
06:35:05 AM Sep 25th 2011
Do we really need the episode specific trope page?

I'd suggest that we further break up the 'lettered' trope pages down to another extra page, and then move the episode specific ones over.

It's kinda out of place, there's no reason really why it needs to be done, I think it was because we had the long main page and then the episode specific, but now we've got sub-pages for the main page.

Anyone agree?
mack
04:40:00 AM Oct 2nd 2011
No objections, so I did it just now, and put the episode specific page onto the cut list.

I might do another alphabetical page, but not at the moment.
diyedas
topic
05:03:28 PM Sep 21st 2011
I really don't get this one.

In the Heartwarming page under Carly and Freddie:

  • iReunite With Missy: Freddie giving up the six-month cruise around the world because he knows Missy isn't looking out for Carly's best interests, even if that means he has to keep dealing with Sam.

That whole thing really shouldn't count as a Carly and Freddie moment. Whether you support Seddie, Creddie, neither, or both, you can't really deny that he did for Sam. He wasn't thinking about Carly or iCarly when he did it. He did it because he cares about Sam and thinks of her as a friend despite him denying it.
mack
07:41:47 AM Sep 22nd 2011
Why can't he do it for both of them? It's obvious that Missy isn't the friend Carly thinks she is. He also wants to protect the show.
ading
03:11:51 PM Oct 25th 2011
^ He didn't have a problem until Sam told him she was trying to get rid of her.
mack
topic
11:54:54 PM Sep 10th 2011
I've removed a few intsances of "Official Couple". I think we should put a moratorium on Shipping tropes that describe the end of a relationship, if that be Ship Sinking, or Official Couple and so on, until at least the end of the arc. The 2nd episode of the arc was extremely negative towards the idea of Sam and Freddie as a couple, but it could still go either way. As such, rather than create back and forth edit wars or having to change things as the 3rd and 4th episode airs, I say take out any such tropes and leave it until the arc is done.

If the reports on airings are correct, this should only be a few weeks anyway.
mack
09:25:26 PM Sep 12th 2011
Just in case someone goes here instead of main page.

Sam/Freddie isn't an Official Couple yet. They are 3 episodes into a 5 episode arc. They could end the arc split up, separated, not together. They could have a Ship Sinking. We don't know what is going to happen yet, so calling them an Official Couple is premature. Wait the 2 weeks until the arc ends, and if they are still together you can go ahead and put them as the Official Couple.

Please don't edit them in again for a third time.
mack
11:03:26 AM Sep 13th 2011
You know what.

Fine.

Whatever. I really can't care enough to continue an edit war that's going to end one way or another in two weeks.
mack
08:47:59 PM Sep 24th 2011
They broke up. Removed Official Couple.
hulkweazel
topic
12:01:27 PM Aug 25th 2011
edited by ading
I don't see how people keep arguing that Carly isn't a Purity Sue. She just about perfect at everything, every guy is in love with her, and she always comes across as the extremely nice and polite one. Not to mention, her extremely different background that she's grown up in. Some people argue that she exhibits Bratty Teenage Daughter traits, but honestly, this seems more like an Informed Flaw since she never really gets in trouble, nor does it ever effect everyone's absolute adoration of her.
mack
05:53:33 PM Aug 27th 2011
edited by mack
I've removed some Natter and justifying edits in the Analysis page. If you want to create your own part of that page to say she is a Purity Sue, then do that. We don't need any edit war or to fill the page with natter. For what it's worth I don't really see how you can call her flaws any thing like Informed Flaw. Not for example, when Shane and Griffin both called her out for her behaviour, Spencer called her out for disobeying him and punished her, she spent an entire episode being terrible at art, and she's been shown as having very bad taste in guys as well. It's hardly 'informed' at all. Her flaws are all shown on screen for anyone watching the episodes.
mack
03:32:31 AM Aug 29th 2011
edited by Confession0791
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=12922537450A14786000&page=1

Confirmation from Fast Eddie that Natter isn't wanted in YMMV pages, Analysis here was created so that several YMMV tropes could be expanded in their explanations and as such I have taken out the natter again.
Confession0791
02:03:23 AM Sep 1st 2011
I apologise for not being aware the discussion on that matter. My revert was not an attempt to Edit War, but to make a point.

1) There are nine entries and 17 sub-entries on Sam being a Canon Sue, Jerk Ass, etc.; all negative. There is but one entry about Carly - which only articulates she is no longer a Purity Sue - positive. Where's the balance?

2) Where are the other characters' analysis? Why only Sam and Carly?

3) Having multiple analysis pages is not an option. This is the one linked to the main page. It should be a collaborative effort.
mack
08:53:02 PM Sep 1st 2011
I have replied on the analysis discussion page.
vmistm
topic
02:25:40 AM Aug 21st 2011
Is Principal Franklin saying "Study hard and Prosper" in iOMG a Shout-Out or an Actor Allusion?
Aspie
12:56:30 PM Aug 21st 2011
I'd say it's both.
mack
08:31:12 PM Aug 21st 2011
Actor Allusion only. I think it just misses out on being a Shout-Out since it's not an actual 'shout out' if you get my drift, but it is an Actor Allusion.
hayleychaotix
topic
02:04:54 PM Aug 17th 2011
edited by hayleychaotix
How come the Season 1 list in the Crowning Moment of Funny section lists every episode (at least I think it's every episode) but doesn't give any examples for most of them? Are they saying the whole episode is a crowning moment of funny(which I doubt cause they have : at the end which makes me think they're more place holders)? Is that even allowed? If it is I'm pretty sure we could just put "The entire show" for some shows and be done with it.
mack
09:31:23 AM Aug 18th 2011
It was intended as a place-holder. I left it as I assumed people would 'fill in' funny moments from each episode. That didn't happen though, which is a bit odd.

So we can either fill in the moments or cut them? I don't care either way.
ProgenyExMachina
topic
08:34:35 PM Aug 13th 2011
From the analysis page:

"Carly still retains some aspects of a Purity Sue. Note her reaction to the "squirrels wrestling" explanation in iBelieve in Bigfoot."

...How in the world does being squicked out by squirrel sex make one a Purity Sue?
mack
01:35:24 AM Aug 17th 2011
edited by mack
My guess is whoever added it is stretching the "naive" part of the Purity Sue build to push Carly towards a Purity Sue because Sam (as always, YMMV ) is a Jerkass Sue and they want some balance on the page by suggesting Carly is a Purity Sue even now?
theschwab34
topic
01:24:12 AM Aug 9th 2011
I can't say i was surprised by seeing how Sam wasnt listed in the Character development section. So i added her. Sam Puckett has had a ton of character development. Just as much as Gibby, Carly, or Freddie.
mack
03:18:31 AM Aug 9th 2011
A pointer, you generally need to add how someone's character has developed. You left it blank. But since I'm a nice guy I'll fill in some things for you.
diyedas
topic
05:15:50 PM Aug 8th 2011
edited by diyedas
There are some Tropes I think that seriously need to be addressed here. This is just a few I have right now.

  • Anguished Declaration of Love: Carly does one of these as Freddie starts to believe that she only likes him because he saved her life. It doesn't work, and Freddie breaks up with her, despite Freddie having loved Carly since the day he met her.

I don't really remember Carly saying anything to Freddie during that part that could be considered an Anguished Declaration of Love.

  • Ascended Fanon: iStart A Fan War uses the terms Creddie and Seddie.

    • Seddie as a whole might be an example of this. Dan Schneider had been planning Creddie in some form from before the show started due to Nathan's small role with Miranda that was cut from Drake And Josh, along with it coming up in iPilot, but Seddie could easily have only started to enter the writers mind in the wake of iKiss. iKiss might not have been intended to have any Seddie followup, but the huge online influence it has could have swayed him to explore Seddie further than he originally intended.

I don't agree with this second thing at all.

  • Character development: Freddie: From a very nerdy and shy kid with a minor Stalker with a Crush vibe, to a smart, confident teenager who has a depth of feelings for Carly that can't simply be explained away as a crush.

This bugs me because I think it's a matter of opinion, not everybody sees it this way.

mack
09:46:49 PM Aug 8th 2011
edited by mack
  • Anguished Declaration of Love.
Carly says quite strongly "but I love you" and is cut off. I think that's enough to qualify, the trope isn't especially strict about usage/intention. It also says that they don't often work, which is what happened here.

  • Character development
He still has feelings for her all the way up to iDo in season 4. He saves her life, becomes her girlfriend but then refuses a relationship despite still wanting it. I'd say that's a pretty nice character development in that specific area. I'll reword it though.

I just cut from the main page area because it's been repair shopped and is now Sure, Why Not? (which I'm sure was a separate trope before) and supposedly a trivia entry.
diyedas
05:32:24 PM Sep 21st 2011
I have to disagree with the Anguished Declaration of Love. Sure she was about to say she loved him, but I don't think it was all that anguished enough to count.
mack
topic
12:56:39 AM Aug 7th 2011
An issue was brought up on the YMMV and Character pages, about the long list of Mary Sue, Jerkass Sue and Common Mary Sue Traits that Sam includes.

One user said they shouldn't be on any page, so should I suggest that we open an Analysis sub-page to put that trope in, and leave some one-line pointers to the analysis page so they are off both the character and YMMV pages?
mack
12:15:28 AM Aug 9th 2011
Created the analysis page after a discussion on the character discussion page due to a misunderstanding.
Jcatgrl
topic
07:31:27 PM Jul 5th 2011
Can anyone confirm if this is real, and not an edited gif? http://bit.ly/nANhBv
Chronigan
04:48:37 PM Jul 6th 2011
It is not real
truteal
topic
03:46:39 AM Jul 2nd 2011
Because The forums do not have a ICarly page, I decided to post by biased opinion here.

Sam doesn't deserve Freddie for all the Physical and Verbal abuse she gives him (neather does Carly) But because I Haven't watched the latest episodes, I can't really say for sure (she may have treated him better in the latest episodes)

I snicked at the plot for "iLost My Mind"
happy5214
topic
06:11:42 AM Jun 16th 2011
The biggest Nickelodeon shipping war ever? Anyone for Kataang vs. Zutara on Avatar: The Last Airbender?
mack
10:08:54 AM Jun 17th 2011
If it's not bigger it's at least equal.
stubby43
topic
03:16:22 AM Jun 12th 2011
Is I party with Victorious canon?

I havent been able to watch the show yet but from what I've heard even though it airs directly after iOMG nothing about those very important events are referenced at all, in fact they wont be dealt with until the next episode.

so does iparty with victorious exist outside of continuity?
mack
10:40:29 AM Jun 14th 2011
edited by mack
Out of continuity yes, out of canon? Who knows. I'd go with "It's meant to take place sometime before iOMG". There's a 3 month time skip in there as well :S
stubby43
topic
04:34:46 PM Jun 9th 2011
I want to add an amazing fact about the show icarly but I dont know where to put it (or if its true, though the evidence seems convincing).

The short version is the saved by the bell set was never completely destroyed, it now doubles as the icarly kids school.

"The set of the school was never struck down completely after the show stopped production. It has been used and redressed on many other shows since then, such as “That's So Raven” and “iCarly”."

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/13-things-you-probably-didnt-know-about-saved-by

Any idea how we can fit this in?
mack
02:55:47 AM Jun 11th 2011
edited by mack
Recycled Set. I had a look at a youtube video for That's So Raven and it's the same set as iCarly, and there are only minor differences between those two sets and the one on Saved By The Bell so I think this is spot on. The main one being that in iCarly there is a big door entrance that isn't in TSR, and there is a whole extra part to the set off to the right of this entrance that they don't use on iCarly.

I've added the trope in to the four pages.

It'd actually make a good image for the page if there were any high quality pictures of all of them.
stubby43
09:15:36 PM Jun 11th 2011
Thanks for the help with that, it shouldnt be too hard to get hold of high quality images for icarly and thats so raven, saved by the bell might be a little harder but still doable.

where would I post them if I found them?
mack
10:41:13 AM Jun 14th 2011
edited by mack
Upload them to tinypic.com and just link here. I can do a icarly set HD picture, so I'll just match the best picture you've got. I'm decent with photoshop and have done images for here before (I added the picture for Girl Next Door with Carly and Freddie before they swapped it for no reason with Mary Jane from spiderman, and another couple I think.
mack
topic
09:26:33 AM May 10th 2011
edited by mack
Just putting a note up here for anyone who might come from one of the other fansites this work has, and want to rip up the existing entries without really understanding the site or the people who have been working on it for 2+ years. A newbie guide.

First up: Check out the Home Page. Check out the wiki formatting page. It's likely going to be different to any other site you've edited before. Cleaning up red links or failed formatting is tedious.

Get Known.

Then: There Is No Such Thing As Notability. You don't need citations. Just read, and re-read the trope you are attempting to edit or remove before you do anything. Read the rest of the entries, and then see if you can understand why that trope was used in this situation.

If you think something so horribly heinous that you must remove it instantly. Don't remove it. Because removing something here doesn't just cause a problem on this part of the site, but could be linked in any number of other ways in other pages. It's also better to start a new discussion in here.

Keep in mind that in an ongoing show, that tropes can become twisted and changed from episode to episode. The idea that something has been deliberately 'planned' to be 'biased' against a certain character or relationship, keep in mind that it's unlikely given the amount of work that's going into the page. It's more likely to be a case of YMMV and please keep that in mind before going off shouting down people for being 'biased'. People make mistakes, or put entries in the wrong place or simply made a mistake whilst they were editing. To steal something from The Other Wiki, edit in good faith, and use the Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment.

An entry could've been written by one person 2 years ago, and then edited by another, and another, and another. Don't assume that the person who made the most recent edit was the one to create the entry in the first place. Even if it's radically different to the last version, it could be editing something back to an older version that might not show up in the history.

Keep in mind that YMMV is by definition, subjective. You might not agree with it. It includes a lot of fandom tropes. A lot of the tropers here look at things more objectively that normal people would. It's part of the reason TV Tropes Will Ruin Your Life. It might not match with people who aren't used to this close study of specific tropes and instead are more used to broad character strokes.

If you add a trope onto any of these sub-pages, ensure you also add it to the main trope entry. Leaving them off creates a lot of work when the inevitable 'clean up' takes place. Look further up the page. Doing this a year ago took almost a week (with a couple hours a day doing them). And keep in mind it's not always guaranteed that it will be done anyway, so update the main pages anyway. It doesn't take too long.

Lastly, this is meant to be a fun place. If you screw up the fun by rules lawyering, or getting high on your own drama, you'll kill the Wiki Magic and ruin the page.
carla
topic
12:53:12 PM Apr 26th 2011
from the characters page, sam's section:

while she does have a tomboyish style (which, really, has all but disappeared by season 4) and is very aggressive (Understatement), why does her having a Boy Of The Week (not even as many as carly has had) immediately make her ambiguously lesbian? i would think it the opposite— going by the trope definition, her preferences are decidedly brought up in-show, markedly in favor of boys. calling these love interests a "lampshade" like they're all a complex and unnecessary series of beards is a stretch.

and given the "defied" and "thoroughly discredited" comments right below, can this trope be taken out of the character page entirely?
Confession0791
12:31:49 AM Apr 27th 2011
mack
12:10:13 PM Apr 27th 2011
edited by ading
Defied and Discredited came a lot later than the original Ambiguously Gay part of the trope. It's basically showing a 'progression'. Maybe keep it as an ACI.

Keep in mind that alot of the examples could have been written up to 2 years or more ago.
mack
topic
11:58:53 PM Apr 21st 2011
On the YMMV page:

Seriously? I've zapped it, but left a note here in case anyone has any objection.
hulkweazel
10:44:16 PM Aug 18th 2011
Carly fits the Mary Sue trope very closely, actually. Abnormal life, no real character flaws, loved by everyone, resolves every conflict... etc. Although she does turn into a Bratty Teenage Daughter occasionally, she still fits this trope to a T.
carla
topic
10:46:20 AM Apr 19th 2011
edited by ading
"Green-Eyed Epiphany: Sam, if her actions at the end of iSpeed Date were meant to indicate her feelings for Freddie. Carly might end up doing the same in a future episode."

I don't disagree with the "if"; it's left to viewer interpretation, so at that point we can't know whether she's really feeling jealousy or not. that's fine by me. Is the second sentence necessary, though? We're not here to document what might happen, just what does happen. Carly has already had her epiphany— and it came via taco truck, not jealousy.
mack
08:57:22 PM Apr 19th 2011
Cut the entire trope, because we don't know yet for either girl.
carla
08:49:41 AM Apr 20th 2011
awesome. if something along those lines happens in the future, we'll see how this goes.
carla
topic
10:38:25 AM Apr 19th 2011
"Farewell My Friend: iHire An Idiot threatens this with Freddie and Carly, after the girls hire the titular idiot Cort. Although it's only Carly who Freddie gets mad at, Freddie threatens to quit unless they fire Cort, then ends up hiring his own hot dumb intern before they resolve the situation and Freddie's reveals a gambit that his intern has been Obfuscating Stupidity so she can do a sociology project and make Carly jealous."

arguably he was mad at both girls, and at no point is it mentioned that he hired ashley to make carly jealous. he hired her to get back at both girls for hiring cort based on his looks.
Flute
11:01:13 AM Apr 19th 2011
"arguably he was mad at both girls"

Agreed - when they first hire Cort, Freddie specifically tries to get Sam to see reason, and he seems equally frustrated with both girls throughout the episode.
mack
09:26:06 PM Apr 19th 2011
The episode basically has Sam stand around drooling at Cort whilst Carly and Freddie have the arguments, which is why it's Carly and Freddie. The jealously thing seems clear to me, that Freddie is jealous the girls are drooling over Cort, then he gets Ashley who is 'super hot' at which point Carly gets jealous that Freddie went and hired a super-hot girl.

Maybe re-write it. Farewell My Friend: iHire An Idiot has Freddie get mad at the girls after they hire the titular idiot Cort because of his hotness. Carly and Freddie are the ones who end up fighting, he threatens to quit unless they fire Cort. Freddie hires Ashley, his own 'super-hot' intern. It's resolved when Cort is fired after doing something so stupid they have to fire him and Ashley reveals she has been Obfuscating Stupidity so she can do a sociology project.

Flute
09:55:56 PM Apr 19th 2011
Freddie argues with Sam too, though. As I recall, when he first comes in one Ashley she's the one to comment on it ("Who's your... lady-friend there?), and they argue quite a bit in that scene (or at least she tries to argue with him, I can't remember how much he argues back and I have no way of checking ATM). I feel like it's not necessary to include the "Carly and Freddie are the ones who end up fighting" line - the rest seems fine imo.
carla
08:48:47 AM Apr 20th 2011
the jealousy angle is subjective. it's clear to you, but not to everyone. i certainly didn't see it. so i think it's best to leave it out.

i don't mind that line about freddie and carly arguing being included. i mean, they did argue about it. i would phrase it differently, though, just to make it sound neutral: just say "carly and freddie argue about it," perhaps.
mack
04:30:47 AM Apr 21st 2011
edited by mack
I don't mean 'romantic' jealous, I just mean jealous as in "they both hired a hot guy/girl and the other was jealous of the hot guy/girl."

But if it's a problem (which it probably will knowing that this site has now been linked on the Seddie forum), it'd be better to just cut it down to:

  • Farewell My Friend: Freddie in iHire An Idiot after the girls hire Cort because of his hotness.
carla
07:56:17 AM Apr 21st 2011
edited by carla
thing is, even if it was friendshippy jealousy, it would still be present from both girls, not just carly. sam was the one who directly fired ashley, after all.

LOL, i loved that Zerg Rush pothole there. xD honestly, it's not about the shipping. i've been a troper far longer than i've been an icarly fan, let alone a freddie/sam shipper. just doing this in the interest of neutrality. and to avoid edit warring, which will only get the article locked.

i think something like "freddie threatens to quit icarly in ihire an idiot after the girls hire cort as an intern solely because of his hotness" works. will make the edit, if anyone has any objections, let me know.
carla
topic
09:55:47 AM Apr 19th 2011
"Writer Revolt: Rumours and theories persist that the episode iKiss was only written due to Executive Meddling, based on a few pieces of evidence including Dan include the skewering of Teen genre tropes with the Kelly Cooper skit, then doing the biggest one of all, the First Kiss."

right. so let's leave aside the fact that him succumbing to Executive Meddling (because the episode was written and aired, after all) is the complete opposite of a Writer Revolt. if there is any evidence of these "rumors" that have apparently been circulating the web for so long, i would like to see it. show me the article, point me to the interview on youtube, give me a link to the critic's review— anything that can show me that someone outside the fandom and not wearing Shipping Goggles actually believes Dan only wrote this episode to appease the execs. the "rumor" must've started somewhere, right?

otherwise i would argue shipper "theories" have no place in the main article, and this should be taken somewhere else.
mack
09:27:02 PM Apr 19th 2011
This one has been around for a while. Maybe a move to YMMV under the fandom tropes would be best.
carla
08:41:25 AM Apr 20th 2011
i would agree with that, so long as the "rumors" bit is removed. "some fans theorize that..." would be alright, AFAIC.
carla
topic
04:22:17 PM Apr 18th 2011
"Vitriolic Best Buds: Sam and Freddie. Type 2. Just enough to qualify. In some episodes."

in some episodes? really? the episodes where they're not being all buddy-buddy are what makes them Vitriolic Best Buds in the first place. heck, the last line of the type 2 description practically spells out the majority of their interaction in iOMG. can we just take out the wishy-washy stuff and put this example down as a fact?
theschwab34
06:25:16 PM Apr 18th 2011
I think that would be alright.
mack
09:30:49 PM Apr 19th 2011
edited by mack
That was updated on the trope page but not on the article itself to:

  • iCarly: Sam and Freddie, especially in more recent episodes.

Maybe put in a reference to a specific season rather than 'more recent episodes'.

  • iCarly: Sam and Freddie eventually qualify to a Type 2, starting from around the episode iReunite With Missy.
carla
08:39:58 AM Apr 20th 2011
i would leave it as "from season 2 onwards." being too specific may bring us back to edit warring again.
carla
topic
11:11:43 AM Apr 18th 2011
can we discuss this little jewel, or should we save ourselves the trouble and the possible aneurysms and just get it off the page for the sake of everybody's mental health? 'cause, you know, there are entire webpages dedicated to debating this, and none are any closer to an objective resolution because Shipping is hopelessly subjective no matter what.

"Ass Pull: The end of iOMG. None of the previous episodes have any kind of real indication Sam has any feelings for Freddie, half-dozen episodes earlier in the season she had a canon crush on Spencer, and Sam keeps doing things like giving Freddie a humiliating spanking in front of Carly for a mildly sarcastic remark in iSell Penny Tees. Come iOMG she's "in love" with Freddie, treating him nicely, wanting to hang out with him, then kisses him at the end of the episode whilst he's in the middle of telling her that she should go out and tell Brad she likes him."

...um. with all due respect, i don't even know where to begin disagreeing. this comment is just an edit war waiting to happen.
ProgenyExMachina
11:14:16 AM Apr 18th 2011
Just zap it. It's IJBM material either way, so they can move it there.
173.64.178.23
12:40:35 PM Apr 18th 2011
Yeah, get rid of it.

(And for the record, I will just say that if people tell you there's a fence in your way, and you insist there's no fence and keep going and then you trip over the fence and fall flat on your face, that fence did not come out of nowhere. It just means you weren't paying attention when people told you it was there.)
theschwab34
02:02:38 PM Apr 18th 2011
Yes, that one editor just loves to use that term ass pull. I think there is a ton of Evidence in prior episodes that Sam had it bad for Freddie.
carla
03:55:12 PM Apr 18th 2011
edited by carla
should be noted that Ass Pull is also potholed in that context in Sam and Freddie's Slap-Slap-Kiss example. if this one gets taken out, that one ought to go, as well.

(i'm not versed enough on TV Tropes etiquette to be sure, so i'll ask: so how long does this topic have to stand or how many pro-removal opinions do we have to get until we can safely make these changes?)
ProgenyExMachina
05:04:58 PM Apr 18th 2011
If it doesn't fit, just take it down, using the edit reason feature to explain why you did so. If it keeps getting put back up, take it to Ask The Tropers and the mods will decide who's right.
carla
08:55:00 AM Apr 20th 2011
i see that the Ass Pull entry has been removed, so i'm gonna go ahead and remove that part from the Slap-Slap-Kiss example, as well. any objections, please bring them to discussion.
SpellBlade
topic
12:17:37 AM Apr 18th 2011
Since people are edit-warring over this example, I've yanked it and placed it here for discussing until a consensus is formed.

  • Unresolved Sexual Tension: Carly/Freddie fit the main description. They are obviously attracted to each other, and the story has blocked them from getting together with Freddie thinking Carly only likes him because of hero worship.
    • Other pairings might have subjective chemistry, but do not qualify for UST as the trope describes:
      • There is no UST involving Sam and Freddie as the trope describes. They have never been presented as wanting to progress their relationship further, have both actively and repeatedly denied liking the other in a romantic manner and that denial is not part of a block as part of any ongoing plot or story arc. Even after iOMG, they still don't qualify for UST, as it was just a kiss at the end of the episode as a Cliff Hanger. Freddie could reciprocate in the 2nd part, which would make them an inversion of UST due to the lack of any storyline and block on them getting together before it happens.
      • Spencer and Sam don't have any UST despite their obvious chemistry and Sam's crush on him, because it's never come up as part of a storyline.
      • Carly and Sam don't have any UST because again, it's never come up in the storyline of the show.

theschwab34
12:26:08 AM Apr 18th 2011
edited by theschwab34
Sam and Freddie qualify for this. As of iOMG it is canon that Sam Puckett loves Freddie Benson.

The person has the example that Carly and Freddie obviously are attracted to one another but the story has blocked them. That is not a fact. How are they obviously attracted to each other? If Sam and Freddie don't qualify. Carly and Freddie don't qualify. It's that simple.

I have just as much evidence that Sam Puckett and Freddie Benson are obviously attracted to each other but the story blocks them from happening.

I have an argument against Carly and Freddie being attracted to one another. Here. How is it obvious Carly is attracted to Freddie? Only loving him because of hero worship does not mean she finds him attractive. So while we have no evidence Freddie finds Sam attractive. Mack doesnt have any where Carly finds Freddie attractive
Confession0791
12:54:22 AM Apr 18th 2011
There is no canon evidence that Carly is attracted to Freddie, other than the brief period after he saved her life. It is canon that Sam is in love with Freddie.
mack
01:04:04 AM Apr 18th 2011
They don't qualify.

You aren't reading the trope properly.

It doesn't matter if Sam is in love with Freddie. That's not what the UST trope is about.

Two people are obviously attracted to each other.

Freddie hasn't indicated any level of attraction towards Sam. That immediately cancels out any UST because it's not double sided.

Then you have the next part. Some element of the story is keeping them apart.

No part of the story is keeping them apart. It's been introduced only from the last episode, and since it's a Cliff Hanger there's no way to know what the story will become. If Sam and Freddie hooked up in iOMG part 2, it would be They Do with an Aversion of UST because they simply happen in the double part episode with no build up.

Again, right now, there is no basis for including Sam and Freddie in the UST trope.

As for Carly and Freddie, they qualify on both counts, they hooked up in iSaved Your Life signifying their obvious attraction to each other, but broke up because of an external story element (hero worship) which they said they'd go back on some day, and since it hasn't, there isn't any Ship Sinking either. It's a mild version due to Status Quo Is God, but it's clearly UST as the trope describes.
theschwab34
01:14:02 AM Apr 18th 2011
So? Doesnt say anywhere that Carly is attracted to Freddie.
mack
03:29:25 AM Apr 18th 2011
edited by mack
You are missing the point. Carly and Freddie spent an episode as a couple making it obvious they have an attraction for each other. They then broke up (without Ship Sinking), because the storyline blocked them staying together with of the 'hero worship' thing. Her attraction may have been as a result of the hero worship, but that doesn't matter because she was attracted to him, and have yet to resolve the reasons and if they will or will not still be attracted to each other after they resolve the issue.

They perfectly fit the trope description. If you have a problem with this, you should take it up on the trope itself, and not attempt to shoe-horn in a romantic pairing that doesn't fit and drag the page into an annoying and pointless Edit War.

I assume since you never replied to the points about Sam and Freddie, that you agree that they shouldn't be included, except to explain that why they don't count?
carla
07:08:24 AM Apr 18th 2011
actually, as per the definition mack keeps quoting, i would agree sam and freddie do not fit the trope. looking at it that way, it should definitely be reciprocal. we know sam loves freddie, but we don't know for sure otherwise. theirs is more of a Slap-Slap-Kiss dynamic IMO, or so it seems after iOMG (and that's just a whooooooole 'nother discussion).

that said, i would argue if sam and freddie don't fit this trope, neither do carly and freddie. yes, one could say they got together in one episode so they obviously find each other attractive on some level, and an element of the story did keep them apart (hero worship/gratitude confused for love, you name it). however, note the definition: some element of the story is keeping them apart. the element that split carly and freddie up is long gone, and now there's no longer anything keeping them apart— except the fact that they just don't get back together. they just don't have the inclination. hardly tension in that case.

it can't even be argued that they had UST in that one episode— because they were together in iSYL. that's called resolving the tension. so no UST there either.

regardless of my personal shipping preference, my vote goes to taking the trope off the page altogether.
mack
09:04:05 AM Apr 18th 2011
I'd agree with all that except Carly/Freddie is still a mild case of UST because despite the hero worship being gone, the actual implications (ie, going back after the hero worship is gone) still haven't been dealt with due to Status Quo Is God, leaving it unresolved and thus trope worthy.

However, if more people suggest to removed it completely, I'm perfectly fine with that just to get this edit war over with.
carla
10:42:46 AM Apr 18th 2011
"the actual implications (ie, going back after the hero worship is gone) still haven't been dealt with due to Status Quo Is God, leaving it unresolved and thus trope worthy."

i have to disagree on that one, mack. Status Quo Is God is not an "obstacle" to a relationship, which creates UST. UST is by definition (i quote again the "is keeping them" part) an overarching romantic conflict between two characters. from the trope definition, Status Quo Is God "usually happens in a series with no overarching conflict" and "any changes at all are resolved with a Snap Back or Reset Button."

in that sense, the mere fact that Status Quo Is God can apply to freddie & carly's post-iSYL relationship, but doesn't to other elements through which this show demonstrates it does have a sense of continuity (such as the whole plot of iTTK, mentions of melanie in that same episode, mentions of nora in iSAFW, etc) is enough to conclude that iSYL is not an overarching storyline, and from that, i would have to conclude it should not count as UST.
theschwab34
02:01:35 PM Apr 18th 2011
Carla, you make excellent points. What i have been getting at is if you can use Status Quo Is God to Creddie an iSYL you can legit argue to use it for OMG.
184.153.102.49
03:20:24 PM Apr 18th 2011
"You are missing the point. Carly and Freddie spent an episode as a couple making it obvious they have an attraction for each other."

Erm, IIRC, the entire basis for the Freddie/Carly split in iSYL was that Carly wasn't legitimately interested in him; therefore, how does this episode serve as proof that she's "obviously attracted" to him? That's some flimsy evidence.

One could just as easily argue that Freddie is "obviously attracted" to Sam since it was his idea to kiss her in iKiss. You might say, 'Oh, but it was just to get it over with, so it doesn't count' and, to that, I say, 'Oh, Carly only dated Freddie because he saved her life, so it doesn't count.' See where I'm going with this?

I don't think any two characters have more UST than Sam and Freddie but, if we're basing this on verifiable information within the show (as we should be) and not viewer interpretation, then I agree with Carla. Remove it completely. Neither pairing currently applies.
Confession0791
07:41:31 PM Apr 18th 2011
I'll agree to BST.
carla
09:02:19 AM Apr 20th 2011
BST would imply UST. it's a subtrope, isn't it? i'm thinking of that "If the UST is sustained over some time..." line in particular. if you ask me, in this case it's either both, or neither.
mack
04:34:32 AM Apr 21st 2011
It's neither because it's not reciprocal, at least until iOMG pt 2 airs.
69.245.84.20
03:04:08 PM Apr 23rd 2011
184.153.102.49, You are 100% correct.
Confession0791
topic
02:30:40 PM Apr 16th 2011
edited by Confession0791
There is a discussion about bias in the main page here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13029878760A63116100&page=1
mack
05:39:19 AM Apr 17th 2011
edited by mack
The only bias is people trying to shoe-horn their shipping preferences into tropes that simply don't fit the description. And to make it obvious considering what this issue is in regards to, Sam/Freddie only count as playing with the BST trope, and they simply do not qualify at all for UST:

Two people are obviously attracted to each other, but some element of the story is keeping them apart.

That's the central tenet. Not even the widest interpretation of this trope can qualify Freddie for the "obviously attracted" part therefore they don't qualify and the edits removing them from the trope is correct.

As for the other claim that I can't acknowledge anything, I've edited a lot of tropes into the article and their pages to update them based on iOMG.
theschwab34
12:28:25 AM Apr 18th 2011
Obviously attracted? How is it obvious Carly is attracted to Freddie? Only loving him because of hero worship does not mean she finds him attractive.
ninjadinosaurgirl
topic
10:20:31 PM Apr 13th 2011
Does anyone else think the Just Bugs Me page should have a separate folder just for complaints about iStart a Fanwar? Because there are TONS.
wuggles
topic
07:18:37 PM Jan 15th 2011
I think that now the page needs to be split up into subpages, or at the very least folderized(like Phineas and Ferb or Avatar: The Last Airbender ). The page is getting way too long even with a YMMV tab.
mack
02:49:02 AM Feb 9th 2011
edited by mack
Yep. I've been thinking along those lines, which is why I did folderised all the WMG's. I shall ponder the way in which to do it.

N Hmm. &The main page:
  • A new sub-page for the episode specific tropes, then split the rest in half?

YMMV
  • Split off the fandom trope section (something like iCarly/Fandom). Leave the fetish fuel until we see the results of the admin decision on that namespace.

WMG and JBG:
  • Split into 2 pages, one for the characters, and one for everything else.

About the only thing else I could see is split off into seasons for radar and funny. Then take the YMMV tab and split off it's fandom tropes, and
Cosmos666
topic
02:21:57 PM Sep 29th 2010
As the show progresses, the trope page will become longer and more tiring to read. I propose that we divide the tropes in two sections: one for the episode specific tropes and another for the show's general tropes, just like we did with the fandom tropes.
mack
09:36:40 AM Oct 6th 2010
edited by mack
Sounds pretty good.
  • edit - A to D done. I generally moved examples of a 'whole plot' or sub-plot, or anything that only occurred in one-episode. Feel free to continue doing the rest.
  • edit - everything to H done.
  • edit - everything up to and including M done. I also moved the fandom section to a new YMMV page, along with some of the subjective tropes that I've seen listed in other YMMV pages.
  • edit - Done.
74.64.15.17
topic
10:47:29 PM Aug 29th 2010
edited by 74.64.15.17
This first part is for the Getting Crap Past the Radar page but still..

Does anyone remember where this quote from, and the exact quote? Freddie and Spencer were spazzing over a Galaxy Wars car when Sam said something along the lines of "Geeks Gone Wild".

Also, is Seddie a Vocal Minority? I thought they were the most preferred pairing, by just a bit.

On another point, though not mentioned on this page, does Sam really have a Star Of David in her locker? I can't find it. Anyone have a screenshot pointing it out?
ninjadinosaurgirl
03:58:16 PM Mar 26th 2011
The episode is "iGive Away a Car."
mack
topic
08:08:53 AM Jul 15th 2010
We are horrible at putting the listed tropes in the trope article. I've just gone through from the start, and probably half or more simply aren't listed on the trope page. I've added everything from A to Brain Bleach (which is yet to be added).
MegaJ
10:34:45 AM Jul 15th 2010
I think the main trope page is Trope Overdosed, I need we need to separate the show tropes, the fandom tropes and move all character related tropes to the Characters page.
mack
11:08:34 AM Jul 15th 2010
Yeah, that might be needed. A sub-section for the fandom related stuff would probably work well, with perhaps moving to a sub-page if there's a decent amount of them.

I've now added iCarly examples to all the pages above Chekhov's Gun.

I think I might clean up the alternative character interpretation bit. That's huge.
mack
08:31:00 AM Jul 18th 2010
edited by mack
Cleaned up ACI a little, moved some to WMG.

I've added to the trope pages the examples from everything about Door Focus.
  • edit: 19th July - Everything above Executive Meddling.
  • edit: 20th July - finished all the F tropes.
  • edit: 23rd? July - finished all the G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O tropes.
  • edit: 24th July - Finished all the remaining tropes in the regular examples section. Fandom section done for the most part, some not due to it not really qualifying for a trope example page.
    • Now doing the Character Pages:
    • Carly: Done.
    • Sam: Done.
    • Freddie: Done.
    • Spencer: Done.
    • The rest: Done.
  • All done, including adding some tropes that were on their trope example pages, but not the main page. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD IF YOU EVER READ THIS PLEASE DO BOTH THE TROPE EXAMPLE PAGE AND THE iCarly PAGE WHEN YOU ADD A NEW TROPE.
97.104.25.52
topic
03:01:20 PM Jul 4th 2010
Not to get in the middle of the Shipping Wars, but from my neutral standpoint, there does seem to be a lot of "Seddie" bashing on the trope page. Not taking a side but the tone of the page makes it a very easy target for justifying editing.
99.9.168.242
03:20:24 AM Aug 1st 2010
Agreed.
BigT
topic
04:11:09 AM May 15th 2010
iCarly really needs to be moved to a ptitle, though I'm not up for all the companion pages. I mean, if Eddie's idea to keep track of the proper capitalization/punctuation of regular titles doesn't come through soon...
BigT
01:55:30 AM May 24th 2010
Okay, I did it, but there's no way to redirect to this page. So I guess I'll just put a big link at the top.
piearty
topic
01:37:08 PM May 4th 2010
How are Freddy and Carly ambiguously Asian?! How?! It doesn't explain or anything, it's just there!
tricksterson
08:03:41 AM May 5th 2010
I think because both of them, especially Carly have a slightly Asian cast to their features. As far as I know neither actor is part Asian so feel free to get rid of it..
mack
05:44:51 AM May 9th 2010
They both had a bit of an Asian look to their facial features especially in the early Season 1 eps. I still don't think it works really for that trope, I'd get rid of it.
mack
topic
11:15:05 PM Mar 13th 2010
Fan-Preferred Couple: If fanfiction.net is any indication, Seddie is more than twice as popular as Creddie and Cam combined.
  • I don't think it quite applies here. Seddie isn't 'twice as popular', it's 'twice as vocal'. Creddie fans don't need to be vocal because they get development on the show. Cam is only ever going to be a subtext ship, and Dan already knows it. In a way, I'd liken them to the Harmonians.
Yannick
07:31:05 AM Mar 15th 2010
So would that make them a Vocal Minority?
mack
11:50:48 PM Mar 16th 2010
They aren't really a minority, but not so big to be a 'fan preferred couple'. I think I'd be right in saying some of the most vocal shippers are the ones who aren't going to be/don't look like becoming canon, and this is the case here.
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