Discussion Main / OrcusOnHisThrone

Previous Trope Repair Shop thread: Misused, started by LoreDeluxe on Dec 1st 2018 at 6:09:13 AM

I thought this trope was called "Ganon in his castle"?

Is there a non villain version of this trope that allows real life examples?

I'm not sure about the Inspector Gadget examples. While Dr Claw does spend a number of episodes in his castle, his car is armed with missiles and torpedoes, and he's proven willing to make use of them.

He's also talked to Gadget at least once through the window of said car (to tell him an hypnotic Trigger Phrase).

Arthur Petrelli does not belong here I understand not liking the character but you still have to be accurate. Arthur is easily the most active villain outside of Sylar, I mean does this sound like doing nothing to you?

He traps Angela in her own mind to prevent her from revealing what she knows. When Peter shows up Arthur takes his power personally. He then convinces Mohinder to join him and then manipulates Sylar to his side. He kills Usutu and clears Hiro's mind of what he saw and was fully ready to kill them had Hiro not teleported away. He plants Daphne as a pawn to get close to Parkman since he's the only one who can free Angela and when Parkman enters her mind Arthur is waiting and almost kills him it's his own limited humanity that betrays him. Finally he goes back in time discovers the location of the catalyst and takes it before throwing Hiro off a building, he then completes the formula.

Arthur did everything himself the only thing he didn't do himself was capture Claire and the only reason he didn't take care of that himself was because he was either powerless or very busy and the moment he could take care of it he did. Simply put Arthur is not and I repeat not an orcus on his throat he was probably aside from Sylar the most active villain in the show the moment he had the power to get things done he got things done and he did almost all of it himself. He does not belong here in no way does he fit the trope.

May I suggest a much more fitting (and literal) illustration?

[1]◊

[Fixed link - @Septimus]

• In Star Trek Nero appears to spend about twenty-five years doing absolutely nothing so Kirk can be old enough to stop him when he finally continues his plan. A deleted scene shows that he was held captive by the Klingons during this time.
  • To be fair, he didn't have the red matter until much later. Once he did get it, he started his rampage very quickly. His ship was damaged by by the U.S.S. Kelvin as well, so it would have taken some time to repair.

The second half is essentially disproving this.

On top of this, his plan was to wait for Spock Prime and let him SEE Vulcan get destroyed after Romulus was consumed by the interstellar black hole thing. Plus, didn't he retrieve the red matter from Spock Prime's ship once it came through? It admittedly could wipe out a fleet almost single-handedly without it, but so far as I can tell, had no access to anything planet busting until Spock Prime came through, and so could do nothing to the actual worlds of the Federation, even if the Narada could cause significant losses to their ships alone. In fact, Nero would have destroyed the Enterprise near Vulcan there and then, if he didn't recongise it as Ambassador Spock's ship, and in doing so, inflicted revenge on that universe's Spock as well. He attacked Vulcan and emotionally compromised both Spocks. I think that that's not hands-off villainy.

Where it says "Villainous counterpart to Take Your Time" should say "Villainous reason to Take Your Time".

Removed this:

• World of Warcraft has a lot of these. The Final Bosses of most of the game's dungeons (and, indeed, most of the bosses period) seem to do nothing within the game itself to justify all the time and trouble players spend trying to kill them. Sure, the quest NPCs like to talk about how evil they are, were, or are going to be, but you can bet that if you come back in a week or a month, they'll have yet to carry out their nefarious plans.
  • Arthas used to be one of these. For the entirety of the original game and the Burning Crusade, he sat on his Frozen Throne, clutching his terrible sword, but not actually doing much of anything. He put in a brief, voice-only appearance in the original Naxxramas and that was it. However, this is soundly averted in the Wrath of the Lich King expansion, where he shows up in several key quest lines—with some of these specifically intended to unhinge your own character. During one of these, he personally kills you, partly to show just how easily he can do it, and partly to demonstrate his genre-savviness in knowing you'll simply come right back. It's quite clear that he's actively opposing the attempts of the Alliance and Horde to defeat him, though it's heavily implied in the end that he was also employing most of his willpower to prevent the Scourge from destroying all life on Azeroth outright. After he's defeated, the new Lich King also proceeds to sit on the throne and just do nothing. This is an aversion, however, as doing nothing was the exact reason why Bolvar took the job. The term he uses is 'jailer of the damned'.
    • If only this applied to the last ten years since Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne ended. He did NOTHING. Quite literally, too: at the end of the final cinematic in Frozen Throne, he sits upon said throne. At the start of the trailer for Wrath of the Lich King, ten years later, he's still sitting there. You can tell he hasn't moved because he's been completely iced over. He had some justification for sitting around, though. In the Expanded Universe novel, Arthas: The Rise of the Lich King, it is revealed that the entire five years there was a mental battle between Arthas and Ner'zhul going on inside that sitting body's brain, which Arthas ultimately wins, bringing himself up from coma and once again taking control of the Scourge after the years of inaction. That brings up some other problems, though. Didn't the devs say they were one being now, neither Arthas nor Nerzhul? Plus, his lich, DK and some other minions had free will. What, do they have no initiative?

      • It's implied, based on everything that the two merged but Arthas became dominant. Meaning Ner'zhul is still in there. Just... not out moving the body so to speak. Either way, they took something that was stupid confusing and made it more so instead of explaining it.

      • But there is also the fact that Icecrown Glacier is his place of power and he doesn't need to leave it to control the undead: he only needs to leave when his power is personally needed somewhere.
        • While he was sitting there he went from completely controlling the entirety of Northrend to Fighting natives in every part and feeling like a side villain in his own game.
  • The problem of this approach was shown when he finally stepped out of his fortress.. right into a three-army ambush.
    • In the Halls of Reflection instance it is also revealed that the human side of Arthas still exists, albeit it is very weak, and is holding the Lich King back from simply zerg-rushing the rest of the world with his vast undead army.
      • Though, then again, Ner'Zuhl tried Zerg Rushing the world and managed to... take out three kingdoms in Lordaeron? Before getting his ass kicked all the way back to The Frozen Throne itself?
    • One way this is averted (or played straight?) is that you can play as a Death Knight character, which starts out a member of the Scourge loyal to Arthas. You get to see a lot more of what he's doing up close and personal... of course, a lot of what he's doing is sitting in Archerus and sending you to do his errands for him.
    • This is partially explained during the final part of the Death Knight starting area when Arthas does finally show up on the battlefield. Not only was he supposedly using the players as cannon fodder to draw out Tirion Fordring, but even before the Ashbringer finds itself in Fordring's hands, it's implied that there's something about Light's Hope Chapel that still gives him pause. The combination of the power of the restored Ashbringer and the mysterious hallowed nature of the very ground around the chapel is apparently why the Lich King had to beat a hasty retreat back to his throne soon after showing up to kick everyone's ass...
    • The fact that the Knights were only meant to be cannon fodder means not only did they end up more poorly-trained and -equipped than the death knights from, say, Naxxramas or Icecrown (demonstrated in-game by starting a level 58 with worse equipment than can be found at level 80), they also were only given the bare minimum attention by the Lich King in that he would give them the orders for larger initiatives in his campaign in the Eastern Plaguelands and sometimes pat them on the back or toss them some pity gear. Didn't do a whole lot mostly because they were dead men walking (again) so no point impressing the cut-rate death knights so long as they remained effective.
    • It should be mentioned that having the players try to defeat the Lich King was all part of a Xanatos Gambit in the first place...
  • Illidan deserves a particular mention here. He was billed as the Big Bad of the Burning Crusade expansion, but was virtually absent from the story except for a couple of minor appearances. It was made even more pronounced when the game pulled a bait and switch and made Kil'jaeden the real Final Boss in the last content patch before Wrath of the Lich King. Word of God says that the lessons learned from this mistake were a driving force in making Arthas so active in Northrend.
    • Illidan's personal inactivity is somewhat explained as self-preservation. He made a deal for power with Kil'jaeden and failed to deliver his end of the bargain. Twice. He doesn't want to leave his stronghold in the Black Temple for fear of being assassinated by one of The Deciever's other, more powerful, and more effective servants. He also turns up personally at the end of the Ally of the Netherwing questline, and personally orders your death.
    • If anything, Illidan shows why this trope works. Illidan waiting for the players in Black Temple may have made no sense, but Illidan didn't end up looking like a wuss in the process. Every time the Lich King has been seen in-game, he has been decisively beaten back by the players/NPC's.
      • Not only that, but even when Arthas shows up it's rare that he actually does anything; he basically pops in, says a menacing line or two, and then leaves without having any real effect on the situation.
      • And one of the few times where he actually does do anything is when he personally shows up to kill Drakuru, his very capable lieutenant who managed to conquer the entirety of Zul'Drak and 'almost' transformed the player into his undead Dragon. What An Idiot.
  • Arthas plays this again when his citadel is invaded at the climax of Wrath of the Lich King. Rather than ganging up on the raiders with any one of the other bosses waiting within, he casually sits on his throne and waits for them to reach him. Then, when you finally reach him, he one-shots the entire raid and explains that he did all this so he could resurrect you all under his control.
    • During one Alliance quest in Howling Fjord, it's possible for the player to encounter Arthas in the spirit world. Arthas immediately incapacitates you and tells you, "It is not yet your time to serve the Lich King. Yes, a greater destiny awaits you. Power... You must become more powerful before you are to serve me." before sending you to the nearest graveyard. Other encounters during leveling in Northrend with similar themes turn from Fridge Logic ("Why does he keep saying that?") into Fridge Brilliance when it's revealed that's exactly what you've done by the time you are able face him directly in Icecrown Citadel. By the time the player is strong enough to personally confront Arthas, it's clear that he wasn't sitting on his throne doing nothing but in fact sitting on his throne waiting for you to become powerful enough to be worthy of killing and raising you under his control as one of his most powerful Death Knights. He didn't keep popping in just for the one liners, he kept popping in to keep an eye on your progress.
  • There's also a notable aversion in the dragon Onyxia, who was busily subverting the leadership of Stormwind in her guise as Lady Katrana Prestor before players umasked her in the quest line that gave access to her lair.
    • In a rare example of the game plot actually advancing, the entire quest line was removed in Wrath of the Lich King to make way for Varian Wrynn to return as King of Stormwind. Of course, this relegates Onyxia right back to the page trope: since she's canonically dead, her lair only exists to allow players to go back and kill her for loot.
  • Loken is another excellent aversion from Wrath of the Lich King. If you don't want to go into Halls of Lightning and make him suffer after completing the Storm Peaks quest lines, you are either heartless or don't bother reading quest dialog.
  • Averted greatly thus far by Deathwing in Cataclysm, who tears apart Azeroth upon his re-emergence.
    • Of course, Deathwing has been this for quite a while, hiding in the Elemental Planes regaining his strength after getting his ass kicked by the other Dragon Aspects.
    • And, unlike both Illidan and Lich King, he doesn't disappear after his reemergence, not limits himself to one-liners. He will be seen flying around the world, throwing around Badass Boasts and killing everything in random zones.
    • Deathwing also appears in a quest in the Twilight Highlands, in which he duels Alexstrasza. Alexstrasza ends up severely wounded. One of her sons gets rather upset, and manages to convince Deathwing to... be somewhere else. Preferably somewhere lacking in scores of incredibly angry red dragons.
• WarCraft's spiritual cousin Starcraft ends with Kerrigan in a similar position to Arthas: entrenched in her headquarters orbiting the last Zerg-controlled planet, waiting...
  • The publicity for the sequel has said that after basically wiping out all the major militaries in the sector, the Zerg more or less disappeared, and nothing has been heard from them in four years. Of course, that's bound to change when the sequel actually comes out.
    • The lore releases have implied that Kerrigan's getting ready to fight the Xel'Naga or the Hybrids, and has been spending those four years building up her forces and refining the existing Zerg units into more-effective versions of themselves (case in point: Banelings). Which is actually quite sensible and makes this a bit of a subversion, as the Zerg WOULD be out there massacring and causing chaos if not for the fact that they're gearing up for an even bigger and more important conflict altogether.
      • Actually confirmed lore in the novels that will be retconned, instead of the vague implications we have from Wings of Liberty, says she spent most of the time trying and failing to make other Infested Terrans like her. Most of them guys.
    • At the very least, it's a Lampshade Hanging: whatever Kerrigan's actual reasons for holding back are (does she even know about the Hybrids yet? She's not exactly sharing intel with Zeratul), the lack of Zerg activity is treated as ominous. Almost a case of It's Quiet… Too Quiet.
    • Also, it's been stated that since the end of Brood War, Kerrigan has been busy destroying all the remaining cerebrates, bringing the whole of the Zerg under her personal control.
    • The sequel reveals that Kerrigan has become somewhat fatalistic and is content to wait for the prophecy of destruction to come to pass. She and the Swarm become active again once the Raiders start gathering the Xel'Naga artifacts because they are a powerful and upredictable factor that worry Kerrigan.

Can someone more familiar with these works please shrink these Walls of Text down to size?

Here's a proposal for a new name for the trope: "No Quest for the Wicked".

Concerning th Real Life example, It should be noted that most of Tiberius crimes and depravities were only mentioned by historians writing several generations later. Recent historians usually think that he suffered a very bad Real Life case of Historical Villain Upgrade.