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09:01:22 PM Jul 3rd 2011
This article is waaaay too negative. And i don't see why Nu metal has to be called "YMMV" when being listed as metal, just because some metalheads don't like it.
10:20:53 PM Aug 1st 2011
Yeah. I'm with you on this one, how is it not metal, exactly?
03:03:09 AM Dec 1st 2011
Most nu metal songs lack riffs that are traditionally considered metal, and most of the other elements, like the drums, turntables and vocals, are not often considered metal either. The drums sound much more like funk played by a very angry animal (trust me, I've been playing drums 8 years), turntables are plainly not metal, and the vocals don't fit any of the established styles (Power Metal has the signature falsetto wail, Death Metal has its growls and gurgles, Black Metal has its shrieks, Thrash Metal has its shouts and barks...).

Take Freak On A Leash by Korn. The main riff is pretty much a dark-as-night hip-hop background riff, the drums are heavily syncopated but not very fast, and there's the bizarre rap/growl section. The chorus is much more hard rock than metal, as well, where most metal choruses typically have a new riff of fairly high complexity (see: Master of Puppets), hard rock choruses are often identified by simply repeatedly strumming the main chords of the chorus (not that this is a bad thing, see Highway To Hell).

If you wanted to make Freak On A Leash, let's say, Thrash Metal, you'd double the tempo, change the riff to have the same notes for the same amount of time, but alternate strummed at a high speed, replace the drums with tons of double bass and skank beats (look up the latter), and throw in a high number of new riffs. You'd also have to make the vocals aggressive throughout, instead of just in the choruses (in Freak On A Leash, the verses are quiet and frightened, while the choruses are more typical Nu Metal anger).
09:18:50 PM Dec 4th 2011
Nu Metal is a style of alternative metal though, it evolved differently than those kinds of metal, all of which came from Speed Metal. Nu Metal is more rooted in the sort of Grungy Metal that AIC gave us Also, look at other Nu Metal Bands like Disturbed or Slipknot, they don't really have a hip hop sound at all. Then again, one could argue nu metal isn't really a genre at all, considering almost none of the bands that are called that sound alike in any meaningful way. (Compare Linkin Park to, say, System of a Down.)
08:34:43 AM May 6th 2011
I'm thinking of making a Laconic entry. How does this sound?

"Very polarizing subgenre of metal stereotypically associated with Wangsty bands that try to sound tough but fail. Acclaimed bands will frequently be described as not actually belonging to the genre."
07:32:15 AM Aug 10th 2011
Sounds about right.
04:26:28 AM Aug 21st 2011
Oh, crap, sorry, I accidentally made the laconic one for Nu Metal instead of Nu-Metal. Do redirects work for laconic pages too?
01:35:32 AM Jul 19th 2010
edited by DJMarred
I was listening to a recorded interview with Fred Durst, and after being cut for dropping his trademark F bomb, the radio hosts were discussing which came first, the chicken or the egg. I was wondering whether it was his band, Limp Bizkit, that came first, making Nu Metal popular, or were the fans already there, ready for him to exploit? What do you guys make of it?
04:22:56 AM Aug 12th 2010
This sounds like an interesting piece of speculation, but I have to ask, what trope could we associate with this question to incorporate it into the article?

We do have a nu-metal topic in the forums, but it hasn't been touched in months.

Me, I think that with the audiences for Jane's Addiction, Helmet, Living Colour, Alice In Chains and Faith No More, nu-metal could have easily taken off with or without Limp Bizkit. In fact, the genre might have been better without them (more guitar solos, emotional depth and pancultural experimentalism).
04:51:42 PM Apr 19th 2011
It's not as if other metal genres didn't already have retarded bands. At least Limp Bizkit falls into the same line of fun retarded music as Mötley Crüe (Hair Metal) and Red Hot Chili Peppers (Funk Metal).
01:45:38 PM Jun 9th 2010
edited by Juggalotus
Re: Brutal Legend

The soundtrack had a track by Marilyn Manson and a track by Static-X, so why would Kabbage Boy be a pisstake on nu metal?
02:00:10 PM Jun 9th 2010
edited by Lordnecronus
Marilyn Manson are not a nu-metal band, though they've often been lumped in with the genre. Static-X are a bit of a grey area when it comes to their status as nu-metal. Both bands qualify as Industrial Metal, so it's possible that they were included on the soundtrack as representatives of that genre as opposed to nu-metal.

I feel weird actually debating about Kabbage Boy's genre, not only because of my distaste for genre wars but because they're a fictional band; however, there are several pointers to their genre, such as the opening Korn-esque riff of the song, the hip-hop influences, the turntable scratching  *, the "Metal is dead" comment brought up in the scene while they're playing, the band referring to themselves as metal right before they start playing, the actual name of the band (a vegetable that begins with C, turned into the band's name by replacing the "C" with a "K")... those are the reasons I can think of off the top of my head.
05:46:45 PM Jun 11th 2010
edited by Juggalotus
The whole joke was that they were a pop band that refers to itself as a metal band even though they're clearly not. The opening riff of their song doesn't sound anything like Korn. Not all nu metal bands have hip hop influences or turntables, and a lot of bands with turntables and hip hop influences are not nu metal, and misspelled names are not a typical trait of nu metal bands, even though some famous bands have misspelled names.

Even if Kabbage Boy is solely a mockery of Linkin Park, that band isn't really nu metal or metal at all. They're basically a boy band with guitars, turntables and a rapper; there's a book that calls them a "nu metal boy band". That might be kind of a controversial statement, but most metal fans tend to agree that actual nu metal bands have at least some metal influences, even if the bands are not solely metal. I'm not going to press this issue, though, since I don't care if Linkin Park is listed.

The main thing, though, is that Kabbage Boy is a fictional band, so there's really no point to having it mixed in with real bands. That wasn't even the joke in the first place.

The whole term 'nu metal' is kind of a grey area, actually, but Marilyn Manson and Static-X have been called nu metal.
06:11:32 PM Jun 11th 2010
Does Kabbage Boy have a real song? If it does, then it doesn't matter if it's fictional. Fictional bands that produce real music can be placed into genres just like everyone else.

And I think the other band Lordnecrosis was thinking of was Korn. That band is not pop, whatever it is.
04:07:05 AM Jun 12th 2010
Kabbage Boy have one real song that appears, at least partially, in the opening scene of Brutal Legend. One song may not be a good justification for them being here, but it's a real song nevertheless.

Linkin Park do seem to be the main target of the parody (eg. boy band with guitars and rapping), with Korn being the target of the name "Kabbage Boy". Both are fairly uncontroversial entries in the genre (though, honestly, Linkin Park aren't as nu-metal as people say, so I kind-of agree with you there), so that's why I see Kabbage Boy as a parody of nu-metal.

Final note, not actually related to the discussion:
Not all nu metal bands have hip hop influences

It's probably different for everyone, but the way I see it, bands have to either be influenced by hip-hop or other nu-metal bands (an indirect hip-hop influence) in order to qualify as part of the genre. Of course, as you said, having hip-hop influences doesn't make you nu-metal either (Rage Against the Machine being the most prominent example of this).
01:18:45 PM Jun 12th 2010
edited by Alucard
Here's the song. Feel free to judge.

It has bad rapping, turn-tabling, repetitive riffs and angsty, awkward lyrics. Again, take from that what you will.
07:30:17 PM May 13th 2010
Deftones is clearly a nu metal band.
07:30:50 PM May 13th 2010
Also, Linkin Park never "gained" critical approval. They were never liked by critics.
02:32:26 AM May 14th 2010
You're wrong about Linkin Park  *; and if you want to discuss Deftones' status as a nu metal band, then head here and debate it on the talk page.
01:40:24 PM May 15th 2010
When have Linkin Park ever received any critical approval, ever? Their reviews are worse than Limp Bizkit's.
01:59:34 PM May 15th 2010
Linkin Park has performed at the Grammys. And won at least one. Not quite critical approval, given the kinds of things the Grammys have approved, but not chopped liver either.
05:01:12 PM May 15th 2010
So, if Deftones are considered a nu-metal band because of their earlier material, then can I put Disturbed back on the list?
08:23:38 AM May 16th 2010
edited by Lordnecronus
EDIT: I just noticed Disturbed were on the list, So Yeah.

Overall, I have nothing against either band being on the list; I first removed them because they were "controversial" additions. I'd have no objection to the anon adding either band back to the list if the anon wasn't doing it in such an obnoxious way, ie vandalising the page to fit their own POV.
03:00:05 PM May 16th 2010
Then what about System of a Down? Can I put them on the list or should I just keep my fire extinguisher ready?
03:05:46 PM May 16th 2010
System of a Down are... tricky. While Disturbed and Deftones have material that is pretty unambiguously nu-metal, SOAD are a lot harder to classify. I feel it's best if we leave them off the list for now.
04:31:56 PM May 23rd 2010
SOAD were never nu metal.
04:35:29 PM May 23rd 2010
edited by Lordnecronus
@Juggalotus: I personally agree with you, but it's hard to deny the amount of times they've been lumped in with the genre. Doesn't make them part of the genre, of course - just look at how many times Slayer have been called death metal. Anyway, no need to worry - SOAD aren't going back on the list anytime soon.
07:27:43 PM May 13th 2010
Restored accurate claims and removed inaccuracies.
02:30:52 AM May 14th 2010
edited by Lordnecronus
Stop vandalising the page.

Also, what specific "inaccuracies" are you talking about? Have you got a good argument for whether they count as such?
02:46:05 PM May 14th 2010
edited by
I'm not the above editor, but I should state that the current description of nu metal doesn't apply all points of view.

We shouldn't treat metalheads' perception of a genre as fact. They're not particularly on the ball in regards to anything. And Deftones is nu-metal.

Judging from your edits, Lordnecronus, you're clearly vandalizing the page here.
03:17:28 PM May 14th 2010
edited by Lordnecronus
So, me creating the page in the first place was vandalism?

When I first created the page, Deftones were on the list with "Your Mileage May Vary" by their name. I later removed them, along with System of a Down and Disturbed (who also had "YMMV" by their names), because they were controversial additions to the list; As You Know, the page specifically states that you should only add bands to the list if they're uncontroversially nu-metal.

Anyway, judging from your edits, it seems you have an issue with Kittie and Mushroomhead being on the list. What is your own argument for their removal? I'll consider it as long as you don't try and accuse me of vandalism.

EDIT: As a side note, I'd like to ask: why are you using different IP addresses? Do your old ones keep getting blocked?
01:25:47 PM May 15th 2010
I'm not, and it's ridiculously insulting for you to accuse everyone who edits differently from you of being the same person.
08:21:24 AM May 16th 2010
edited by Lordnecronus
Of course you'd say that. Now, back up your argument and stop repeating your ad hominem attacks.
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