Main Not His Sled Discussion

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09:23:26 AM Apr 1st 2013
edited by DonaldthePotholer
To Old Man Ho-Oh regarding the Pokemon example you deleted 3 months ago:

My thoughts on reason for Pokémon Black and White being listed was that the previous generations had certain "quirks" (e.g. game always ends with the Champion, with the Evil Teasm being nothing more than a Broken Bridge at the end of the day, Third Version being an Updated Re-release, etc.) that Gen V threw on their respective ears.

EDIT: Granted, these were intentional design decisions, but[/edit] All that makes it, however, is an aversion of Strictly Formula (albeit a notable one.) Therefore, I see the removal as justified due to Square Peg, Round Trope.
10:53:14 AM Feb 27th 2014
edited by
Upon further review, the Pokémon Black and White example is actually an example of Meta Twist. Unfortunately, I doubt that it had survived the history wipe, so... (EDIT: It did, so I'll put it in there.)

Will also be removing the following examples:

Moving to Meta Twist, after I clean it up a bit:

  • In The Amazing Spider-Man, Spider-Man's archnemesis, the Green Goblin, tossed Spidey's first love off a bridge in one of comics' most iconic moments. It was a huge twist when the comic was published (never before had a superhero let someone die, except in an origin story) and shocked many readers. Since then, however, whenever Gwen Stacy is present, it's become more shocking not have the Green Goblin kill Gwen Stacy.
    • The most straight example of this is in the mini-series Powerless, which re-imagines, among others, Peter Parker becoming a cripple due to the spider-bite, rather than getting superpowers. When Norman Osborn kidnaps Gwen Stacy, they both fall off a balcony, but Peter manages to catch Gwen Stacy, saving her.
    • In Spider-Man: TAS, the writers didn't want to include a character explicitly so they could die, and so Gwen Stacy was only present in the show as part of an Alternate Universe.
      • It also really splits the difference when recreating the scene with Mary Jane: she's saved by a portal opening under her, but this just leaves her trapped in limbo. She later inexplicably appears again, but it turns out this is just a clone. Then the show was cancelled before we could see any closure to the storyline, though the final episode does feature the promise that rescuing Mary Jane is Spider-Man's next stop.
    • There were explicitly no plans to have Gwen die in The Spectacular Spider Man.
    • In Ultimate Spider-Man, instead of throwing Gwen Stacy off a bridge, the Green Goblin throws Mary Jane, and she ends up surviving.
      • In the same continuity, Gwen Stacy is killed by Carnage instead of being killed by the Green Goblin.
        • It's get better in the end Gwen's memories and personality were absorbed by Carnage which wasn't sentient before, resulting in Carnage essentialy becomming Gwen, making her technicaly alive.
    • Played straight or averted in Marvel 1602, depending whether or not you consider the spin-off, Spider-Man: 1602, canon. Virginia Dare is said to fill the role of Gwen Stacy, and she survives in the original mini-series, and it's heavily implied she and Peter end up together. In the spin-off, however, not only is she killed by Osborne, but Peter very quickly gets over her to get together with Marian Jane Watsonne, effectively restoring the status quo that the original mini-series worked to avoid.
    • Also played straight with Marvel Adventures, in which Gwen Stacy is present, but her death is never explored.
    • The trailer for the "Spideyology" marathon of the 90s animated series really made you hold your breath with this even though the series had been over for years and everyone knew Gwen Stacy wasn't even in it except for one minute of the series finale in a parallel universe. We see images of the Green Goblin as we hear a voice say "The measure of a man is how he handles defeat. Let's see how you handle yours!" and we see a blonde woman falling. Later in the trailer, he catches her. (As for what was really going on: the line comes from the Hobgoblin as he attacks the Kingpin's Mooks. The falling woman is Felicia Hardy, who doesn't have white hair in this series until she is augmented to become the Black Cat.)

Not Significant Enough:

Also removed the following pending a discussion of the significance of the first adaptation's twist:
  • The remake of Planet of the Apes changed the original movie's twist into a more subtle variant of the same premise (the ending is closer to the book).
    • Amazingly enough, the original Planet of the Apes movie also did this to the source book, turning it into a less subtle variant.
  • One production of RENT changed the ending so that Mimi actually does die, as in La Bohème.
    • The fact that RENT had originally changed the ending of La Bohème to have Mimi survive is also an example of this trope.
07:13:39 AM Mar 17th 2013
"The remake of Miracle on 34th St" ... which of the approximately four million remakes/adaptations/bastardizations does this refer to?
12:54:22 PM Feb 26th 2011
Regarding The Spectacular Spider Man, I'm not sure if Tombstone ever refers to himself as the Big Man (I think he does), but even if he doesn't, Hammerhead refers to Tombstone as the Big Man and Green Goblin has a dialogue with Tombstone where he says that he's taking over his (Tombstone's) position as Big Man.

Thus, I think the earlier line by Foswell was just fauxshadowing, and Tombstone is the Big Man.
11:47:13 AM Jan 3rd 2011
So the Stepford Wives example was full of Natter. I'm pasting it below so that any editor who wants can try to rewrite it into a factually accurate and non-arguing-with-yourself entry.

  • The Stepford Wives remake, to the annoyance of pretty much everybody who is familiar with the original. Instead of having the wives murdered and replaced by robot copies, the ending reveals they were simply subjected to technological mind control, and returned to normal when it was disabled. Unfortunately, the film was littered with evidence that the Stepford Wives were robots, culminating with the rather explicit scene of the protagonist meeting her robot copy, so the subsequent twist ending that none of the wives were replaced by robots made no sense.
    • Wasn't it made perfectly clear that the Stepford Wives in this version were full-body cyborgs with the original brains implanted into artificial bodies, and "improved" with mind control? This troper finds it remarkable that people keep failing to get this, assuming that the only options available are "robot" and "brainwashing." It's even shown how the protagonist's robot body-double is hollow, clearly intended to contain her brain, and perhaps other biological components!
      • Except it never stated anything remotely like that in the film. The movie explicitly states in the end that it was just chip implants and a good make over. It never said anything about robot bodies or brains being placed inside them.
      • Not to mention the scene where Christopher Walken is having a demonstration of how great the Stepford Wives are and uses one as an ATM (swipe the card, money comes out). If that isn't a robot body, that's some pretty nasty squick I don't really want to think about.
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