Main Nintendo Hard Discussion

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11:47:14 AM Feb 15th 2018
I'm proposing to rename this trope to "Just Like Dark Souls" lul
03:29:24 PM Dec 16th 2017
edited by Vinderzlow
Fuck these games.

All of them.
08:02:48 PM May 14th 2016
04:15:20 AM Feb 6th 2014
edited by
May I remind fellow editors that this trope is when the game as a whole is hard. If the difficulty is concentrated in only a select few stages or bosses, it is not an example.
01:15:40 AM Jul 16th 2013
The trope name is practically an oxymoron in current gaming, and the trope goes far beyond Nintendo games. Wouldn't a name like "Retro Hard" be far more fitting?
04:17:08 PM Oct 26th 2013
I think it's supposed to be "NES Hard". "Nintendo Hard" irritated me, too.
07:59:51 AM Apr 13th 2013
This trope is now scientifically proven.

After More Than 20 Years, 1980s Video Games Officially Hard by Jay London on March 22, 2012

A research team that includes Professor Erik Demaine and doctoral candidate Alan Guo analyzed the computational complexity of classic Nintendo video games, including the first three Super Mario Bros., Donkey Kong, and the Legend of Zelda franchise. Their math-heavy study, “Classic Nintendo Games are (NP-) Hard,” discovered that many games fall into a category of mathematical problems called “NP-hard,” or equivalent to the most difficult solvable mathematical theory.

“Basically, the researchers mapped out every hazard, every bottomless pit, every flying enemy, every bullet bill, as a ‘city’ and discovered that, while there is a mathematical way to solve the most efficient route, it is pretty darn difficult.”

03:36:21 PM Mar 19th 2015
If we're going to mention NP-Hard on the page, should we at least give the definition or link to wikipedia or something? What NP stands for isn't even listed on the linked pages. I googled it, and there's no way anyone who doesn't know that NP-Hard stands for "Non-deterministic Polynomial-time hard" is going to figure that out.

I don't know if there's some policy I missed on this sorta thing so thought I'd ask before adding anything.
02:14:33 PM Nov 30th 2012
Shouldn't this be a YMMV trope?
07:29:55 AM Apr 3rd 2017
I agree. Difficulty tropes in general seem to all be YMMV. A game that is Nintendo Hard for some might be easy for others. For example, SMB 1 and SMB 3 both seem relatively easy to me. N is mostly easy and only has a select few Ninteno Hard levels, with That One Level being a user-designed level.

The same goes for YIDS. It is mostly not too hard except for a few potential Brutal Bonus Levels.

In general, this trope is very subjective.
10:32:57 PM Aug 3rd 2012
Gotta clean up this page. Too many examples of either a game being hard on the hard difficulty or a single level being hard.
02:19:42 PM Jul 20th 2012
edited by InsertHandleHere2
"Stiff, clunky, and perhaps somewhat unresponsive controls (but only when applied to the original 8-bit, 16-bit, and (to a small extent) 32-bit generations: in more modern games, it ceases to be expected and veers right into Fake Difficulty.)"

Wait, what? Why is it somehow not fake difficulty when an older game has stiff, clunky, and/or unresponsive controls? I thought fake difficulty referred to how certain factors could result in a game being unfair, not the intentions on the part of those who designed the challenges, anticipation of unfairness, nor the time at which the game came out.

Unfair is unfair. Older games do not deserve a free pass on this simply because of the standard back in the day.
10:34:11 AM Mar 9th 2012
Should this be included as an amusing "proof" of Nintendo-hardness?
03:04:11 PM Jan 14th 2012
Do you think Capcom should have its own category? A lot of their games seem to be awfully difficult.
06:35:33 PM May 7th 2011
This page is being split due to length. It has reached a size where it is in danger of causing server performance issues. See this thread for details.

To alleviate this, I split off the current content along the lines of the current folder structure. New examples should be placed in the appropriate media sub-pages.

05:03:35 PM May 27th 2011
Can we either get a page for RTS or change the turn based strategy sub-page into a catch all 'strategy games' page ?
11:55:40 AM Aug 16th 2011
I'd like an RTS page too, but I think that a lot of the potential examples could also be summed up by The Computer is a Cheating Bastard
05:37:47 PM Jan 16th 2011
Why is Order Of Ecclesia listed as an example in this page? The only games Order Of Ecclesia is harder than are the easier than easy Castlevania games in DS before it...
05:01:29 PM Jan 5th 2011
Would game shows notorious for the difficulty of their questions fit this trope, either competitive or 'team against the show'?
10:00:21 PM Sep 29th 2010
Shmup guy here. Just going to passively note that a lot of the examples in the shmup section seems to be almost arguing over which is the hardest. This does not conform to this trope; a game being hard does not necessarily equal Nintendo Hard.

-Touhou is not Nintendo Hard. Most other shmups, including Dodonpachi and Mushihimesama, are also not Nintendo Hard. Gradius, however, is.

-Touhou fans need to stop putting Touhou into every trope they can think of. More of a general query rather than trope-specific, but it's getting kind of annoying seeing Touhou slandered over pages upon pages essentially all saying the same thing; this being said as a dedicated Touhou fan.

-Just because Touhou is super-prevalent in TV Tropes does not mean you are being superior by saying *insert shmup* is better/harder than it. Quote, "Touhou has NOTHING on many other Shoot Em Ups". Don't do this.

-Trope folders are not dickwaving contests meant to express what shmup is the hardest and how hardcore you are if you beat it. This also has nothing to do with being Nintendo Hard.

I'm not here to edit the crap out of pages or anything, but really some of this is getting far too ridiculous. Manage your damn pages to keep discussion relevant and sort out your facts and opinions.
10:49:54 AM Dec 9th 2010
Yeah... Halo is not this Trope. If you have trouble playing it on Legendary then you are purposefully upping the difficulty to a point where the game is hard for you. Some parts of Halo 2 are kind of like this on legendary, as well as various parts of the other games, but the game itself is not designed to be an unnecessary burden to those that want to complete it.
05:01:43 PM May 27th 2011
I guess it depends on how extreme the difficulty setting are. These days there really aren't any games that are unrealistically difficult on all settings, primarily because they have much better game design and need to appeal to casual gamers in order to really fly.

I would agree that Halo doesn't really belong here, nor does anything that is only very very hard on its very very hard setting. On the other hand, games that escalate from challenging at normal to near (or actually) impossible on 'regular hard' deserve a mention, because it is expected that a lot of people will play that setting.

Hard is basically the standard if you are experianced in the genre (in fact many games tell you that exact thing when picking difficulty) and so while it is kinda duh that they are challenging, ones that go into the realms of impossible without prior knowledge or blatantly too hard even for highly skilled players belong here.
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