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Main Neutral Good Discussion
Does anyone have a good idea for an image for the page? I think this is the only character alignment page without a picture.
I really liked having Harry Potter as the picture. I mean, at least I ever gave a crap about Harry Potter, as opposed to Sailor Moon.
Does anyone have a problem with how the alignments are described in the 'if you're trying to find out whether the character is lawful neutral or chaotic good, try this?
I had placed an example of chaotic good for Elan from Order Of The Stick. This was the example:
"* While Elan from Order Of The Stick has been classified (by himself) as Chaotic Good, his actions seem to drift towards Neutral Good. He follows the law as best he could, even when dealing with major villains, who can probably weasel their way out of punishment, yet he's perfectly willing to break out of prison to save his friends, and (apologetically) steal some new clothes, all while leaving behind a note. Compared the Haley, who is as close to Chaotic Good you can get without being stupid, you can see the difference."
It was removed by K Sonik, with this reasoning:
"No, Elan is canonically chaotyic Good as he acts based on his whims. He wasn't sorry about stealing the clothes because it was illegal, but because he thought it was evil as the shop keeper needed the money."
Good reasoning, but I still think his actions as neutral good. For example, he followed what the paladins said to the word, even capturing a villian who hurt him personally, rather than kill him, which is what he wanted to do (and would have been wiser, as said villian boasted about getting out easily). When Vaarsuvius killed said villian outright, he was very upset, as he was against killing the villan and wanted to turn him in legally.
And even if he was he left a note because he did an evil act, the fact that he regretted it shows he might not be as chaotic as he seems.
Compared to Haley, a complete case of Chaotic Good, who does things to help people out of the goodness of her heart, but would not hesitate to kill in cold blood, like when she executed her rival. While Elan would try to follow the law, breaking it when necessary, Haley would break it without second thought. Just because he commited a chaotic act doesn't make him chaotic, just as him wanting to legally turn in the villain rather than execute him outright doesn't make him lawful. He seems in between.
I'm hoping to get some insight on this topic, as it would help draw the line between chaotic and neutral as a subject at large, rather than just with these characters. If this goes uncontested, then I'll add my example back in, but I'm hoping for some feedback.
True, but it isn't the first time a character has been assigned a trope that is the opposite of what is canon, simply because his behaviour may suggest otherwise. While he may be Chaotic by canon, his actions may say otherwise, or at least enough to warrent a spot on this trope. The author can say one thing, yet the actions of their character may say another.
I am not confused as to whether or not his chaotic actions are evil, that wasn't the point. However, there has been plenty of times where Elan would do the legal thing, and not want to break the law. From comic 594
to 599, he was completely willing to arrest Kubotoa trough legal means, clearly feeling uncomfortable with lying to the paladin.
Just because he is willing to break the law alone doesn't make him chaotic. Spiderman, for example, breaks the law constantly, yet he respects it, and tries to uphold it, breaking it when neccesary. Robin Hood also breaks the law, yet he is chaotic. The difference here is that Robin feels the laws have no value, and will do good in spite of it. Haley's actions on OOTS clearly place her as chaotic. Durkon's actions place him squarley on Lawful, you can see a difference. Roy is barley Lawful, getting by on the skin of his teeth (canonically, mind you, according to the author's views), while V is on True Neutral, although that is up to debate. Out of all of them, Elan is the most middling, though soley on good.
He may as well be chaotic. I am not saying he isn't. As you said, canonically, he is Chaotic Good, so we must out that down. However, his actions may say something else, and there are some examples. And of course, the stealing is *not* the only factor in this. As I have said, his action on the Migrate Fleet is what greys this up a bit.
to 599, he was completely willing to arrest Kubotoa trough legal means, clearly feeling uncomfortable with lying to the paladin.
Just because he is willing to break the law alone doesn't make him chaotic. Spiderman, for example, breaks the law constantly, yet he respects it, and tries to uphold it, breaking it when neccesary. Robin Hood also breaks the law, yet he is chaotic. The difference here is that Robin feels the laws have no value, and will do good in spite of it. Haley's actions on OOTS clearly place her as chaotic. Durkon's actions place him squarley on Lawful, you can see a difference. Roy is barley Lawful, getting by on the skin of his teeth (canonically, mind you, according to the author's views), while V is on True Neutral, although that is up to debate. Out of all of them, Elan is the most middling, though soley on good.
He may as well be chaotic. I am not saying he isn't. As you said, canonically, he is Chaotic Good, so we must out that down. However, his actions may say something else, and there are some examples. And of course, the stealing is *not* the only factor in this. As I have said, his action on the Migrate Fleet is what greys this up a bit.
Seeing as they haven't done the specific crime they are accused of(and that is even if you believe Lawful=Legal) these characters can be of any Good alignment