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Ctrooper2011
topic
02:21:04 PM Sep 17th 2013
edited by 174.251.113.74
Would a Cloud Cuckoolander count as Moe? Such girls are to me.

Of course, not always.
Ctrooper2011
08:56:56 AM Oct 2nd 2013
edited by 216.7.225.162
Just looked at the Four Laws; the forth basically requires it.
Oecchi
topic
05:10:12 PM Dec 15th 2012
edited by Oecchi
I'm honestly not sure how most of the series for Western Animation in the "entire series that are moe" section even qualify. Fairly OddParents? Really?
lu127
moderator
02:09:28 AM Dec 16th 2012
Yeah, that's really bad. We'll have to do a bit of chainsawing.
TroperOnAStickV2
topic
07:27:35 AM Oct 9th 2012
A thought: Should we have an image links section for this trope?
Infectedglory
09:10:18 PM Nov 13th 2012
Yes, definitely. I still don't know why the page image changes so much without image links like most fast image pages have. Since 2011 theres been at least 15 image changes for me and I trope very very infrequently.
TroperOnAStickV2
02:45:08 PM Dec 5th 2012
Geat! Now. how do I make an image links page.
Telcontar
moderator
01:18:28 AM Dec 6th 2012
Go here and start editing. To get more images, you could try digging through the archived IP thread.
TroperOnAStickV2
02:48:09 PM Jul 17th 2013
Page started.
AnthonyAlexander
topic
03:26:54 PM Jul 8th 2012
Why are we not supposed to list examples on a work's own page?
SeptimusHeap
01:08:09 AM Jul 9th 2012
Because it goes on the YMMV tab.
Pavlov
topic
04:25:59 PM Jun 7th 2012
HyperShadow
topic
01:44:53 PM Oct 28th 2011
Why was the picture replaced with moe/mo from Simpsons, but clicking on it still takes you to Haruhi Suzumiya? Was it a troll than changed the picture?
VeryMelon
11:58:12 AM Dec 6th 2011
Yes.
Scardoll
01:50:19 AM Jun 20th 2012
Apparently, trolls have a sense of humor. Who knew?
Stoogebie
topic
04:09:10 PM Jul 1st 2011
Why does this trope get so much flack? A character can be a total moe-blob and still be able to hold their own when they need to (Badass Adorable is a good example). Doesn't it just mean that a character gives off this sense of being innocent, cute and so lovable that you just want to scoop them up and keep them? Why does that automatically equal "bad role model" for girls? Sure, vulnerability is a factor, but how many of us can say we've never felt vulnerable in our lives?
TheMalignancy
11:33:02 PM Oct 4th 2011
Because it still holds the implication that women are there only for vaguely cute eye candy and to depend on men. An emotional dependence is just as sexist as a physical dependence.
emeriin
05:07:43 AM Oct 5th 2011
But there's plenty of guys on here.
youfeelingluckypunk27
04:15:28 AM Feb 4th 2013
The definition of "Moe" has definitely changed over time. Nowadays it's used to define a sort of sexual fascination with cuteness, whereas in the past "Moe" was definitely more of a Big Brother Instinct feeling. I get the feeling that we should divide the two definitions. There are plenty of male examples on here, but they don't seem to fit the modern definition of "Moe" as much as girls do, more the classic example of giving the reaction that you want to protect them.
gfrequency
09:07:13 AM Jul 22nd 2013
Because it's a weird, broad-yet-specific concept that's really hard to put into words, especially where western audiences are concerned, and therefore there are a ton of misconceptions, such as moe characters only ever being female, or being totally dependent, presumably on a man. It's easier to react with righteous indignation to a weird foreign idea than it is to figure out what the hell it means.
azul120
topic
01:06:51 AM Mar 21st 2011
Ok, now what's with most of the real life examples getting moved over to Troper Tales?
Scardoll
08:44:35 PM Mar 22nd 2011
Because they're fucking creepy.
azul120
02:56:27 PM Mar 25th 2011
The celebrity examples, you mean (i. e. Felicia Day)? That can't be right. Especially since there are still some left over on the main page.
StephanReiken
topic
08:50:02 AM Feb 15th 2011
edited by StephanReiken
EDIT: Fixing up my misguided view

This definition of Moe seems to fail to realize that 'cute' is not a defining characteristic of all Moe. Its certainly the most common, but a brutalized, scarred little girl can easily invoke the Big Brother instinct which pretty much defines Moe.
Cliche
06:20:14 PM Feb 15th 2011
Do the examples have any clear pattern other than "female character someone happens to find cute"? This is a good example I pulled from the main page that illustrates my problem with how the trope is currently set up:

Highlighted an interesting point.
TroperOnAStickV2
02:50:03 PM Jul 17th 2013
Isn't moe more of an Audience Reaction trope though? Ergo, the author's intent doesn't make or break moeness.
Timstuff
topic
12:03:58 AM Nov 29th 2010
Is there a trope to describe the opposite of a moe character? Not so much the "weakness turns her on" trope. Think more along these lines— if Moe characters are meant to be attractive because they are cute and helpless, thus instilling in the viewer a desire to be protective of said character, the opposite as far as "fanservice characters" go would be a female who is meant to be someone more nurturing and take charge, who makes the male feel like the character is someone who will take care of them rather than the other way around?
azul120
05:32:57 PM Dec 23rd 2010
Someone sort of like Mama Bear?
SomeGuy
07:33:53 PM Dec 23rd 2010
Or Hot Amazon. Maybe they could make a daughter trope if anyone could think of an example.
azul120
01:45:00 PM Dec 24th 2010
They wouldn't have to be physically stronger. Heck, they could be a Barrier Maiden or a Magical Girl you could count on for protection. Or, they could simply provide emotional support like a mother figure. Am I on the right track here?
MizuTakishima
01:13:56 AM Apr 8th 2012
edited by MizuTakishima
I think the Mama Bear and Hot Amazon tropes are on the right track, though maybe No Guy Wants an Amazon truly is the opposite of moe. (strong, dominating females aren't considered moe unless they have a ridiculously girly side- like maybe she can fight your battles for you and even be a total brute, but maybe she blushes easily and cleans up nicely)
TroperOnAStickV2
08:14:43 PM Jul 17th 2012
edited by TroperOnAStickV2
Or Yamato Nadeshiko. I'd expound on that, but I'm too tired to think right now. Get back to y'all tomorrow.

EDIT: Okay, so much for tomorrow-tomorrow. The 'female character who you'd want to take care of you' bit immediately brought to mind Lilly from Katawa Shoujo.
azul120
topic
08:03:35 PM Oct 18th 2010
How about a less exploitative scene for the pic, Unfortunate Implications and all? Not all Moe characters are (reduced to) moeblobs.
Kwanzor
06:53:28 AM Feb 13th 2011
edited by Kwanzor
That seems like a good idea. And, am I the only one who's getting a really weird creepy vibe from the pic caption? It sounds exactly like the kind of thing a weird otaku Gonk villain might say regarding the situation.
azul120
01:13:15 AM Feb 20th 2011
Or Aizen, perhaps, haha.

Something that's outwardly more adorable without the exploitation vibe there.
Kwanzor
06:18:22 PM Dec 27th 2011
"Our documentary now focuses on the Moeblob... treat with care, they cry easily."

Welp.

The caption is still super creepy.
Scardoll
01:57:36 AM Jun 20th 2012
I think that's intentional.
71.38.181.228
topic
07:43:06 PM Oct 1st 2010
"Also, despite general belief that moe females are more tolerated, often the "bad traits" that make moe girls "offensive", "sexist" and "bad role models" are somehow seen as "cute, squishy and adorable" in boys."

This sentence bugs me. The people that like moe boys are usually too busy fangirling to care one bit about whether moe girls are bad role models. It's not really a double standard if the two different standards are held by two different groups.
Kwanzor
07:04:15 AM Feb 13th 2011
Also, the sentence structure is awful.
Stoogebie
09:44:18 AM May 20th 2011
Yes, I kind of got confused with that sentence, especially where the beginning of the article said something about how moe traits are accepted/typical in girls, but unacceptable/immature in boys. Contradiction, anyone?
129.119.25.37
topic
12:31:21 PM Sep 15th 2010
Are we in danger of a Just a Face and a Caption issue? I have no idea what that caption is talking about. It just looks like any anime girl with glasses.
snowbull
08:07:11 PM Sep 26th 2010
Considering this is about visual appearance, having just a face seems fairly harmless here. Whether or not the picture is an example of this trope is another matter, but it seems like it to me.
Kwanzor
07:03:04 AM Feb 13th 2011
Could just change the caption to "THIS CHARACTER HAS TRAITS THAT ARE PARTICULAR TO MOE"
Irothtin
topic
12:45:08 AM Mar 16th 2010
edited by Irothtin
Irothtin: This article attempts to give Moe a fairly concrete definition. Thoughts?
Anoniguy
07:08:31 AM Mar 26th 2010
Ugh.

Yeah, that seems to sum it up. Makes you wonder if manga writers have that same set of features on their character design cop-out checklist.
Stoogebie
09:42:23 AM May 20th 2011
Thanks for posting that (Irothtin). I was wondering what constitutes a moe, and just happened to find this. So basically: Cute, Innocent, Young, Quirky. Got it.
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