Main Moe Discussion

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03:12:35 AM May 2nd 2017
There used be a section here talking about how some characters of 19th century literature can fit this. Like Tiny Tim.

Why is it gone?
06:27:55 PM Aug 20th 2015
edited by MacronNotes

I don't know if it's just me but this page has several with misuse especially from the Western examples (The Fairly OddParents! and Kim Possible are Moe series.... Really?) . Also, The trope is mostly seen as "a series or character this person finds cute". I know it's a YMMV trope and everything but still... I also think that it might benefit the page to be limited to Japanese media and works that are influenced by it.

I'm not trying to bypass TRS or anything. I'm just voicing my concerns to make sure they are not unfounded so I can sometime in the future make a clean up thread for it.... Hopefully, I'm not using the wrong place for this...
05:02:08 AM Jun 8th 2016
02:21:04 PM Sep 17th 2013
edited by
Would a Cloud Cuckoolander count as Moe? Such girls are to me.

Of course, not always.
08:56:56 AM Oct 2nd 2013
edited by
Just looked at the Four Laws; the forth basically requires it.
05:10:12 PM Dec 15th 2012
edited by Oecchi
I'm honestly not sure how most of the series for Western Animation in the "entire series that are moe" section even qualify. Fairly OddParents? Really?
02:09:28 AM Dec 16th 2012
Yeah, that's really bad. We'll have to do a bit of chainsawing.
07:27:35 AM Oct 9th 2012
A thought: Should we have an image links section for this trope?
09:10:18 PM Nov 13th 2012
Yes, definitely. I still don't know why the page image changes so much without image links like most fast image pages have. Since 2011 theres been at least 15 image changes for me and I trope very very infrequently.
02:45:08 PM Dec 5th 2012
Geat! Now. how do I make an image links page.
01:18:28 AM Dec 6th 2012
Go here and start editing. To get more images, you could try digging through the archived IP thread.
02:48:09 PM Jul 17th 2013
Page started.
03:26:54 PM Jul 8th 2012
Why are we not supposed to list examples on a work's own page?
01:08:09 AM Jul 9th 2012
Because it goes on the YMMV tab.
04:25:59 PM Jun 7th 2012
01:44:53 PM Oct 28th 2011
Why was the picture replaced with moe/mo from Simpsons, but clicking on it still takes you to Haruhi Suzumiya? Was it a troll than changed the picture?
11:58:12 AM Dec 6th 2011
01:50:19 AM Jun 20th 2012
Apparently, trolls have a sense of humor. Who knew?
04:09:10 PM Jul 1st 2011
Why does this trope get so much flack? A character can be a total moe-blob and still be able to hold their own when they need to (Badass Adorable is a good example). Doesn't it just mean that a character gives off this sense of being innocent, cute and so lovable that you just want to scoop them up and keep them? Why does that automatically equal "bad role model" for girls? Sure, vulnerability is a factor, but how many of us can say we've never felt vulnerable in our lives?
11:33:02 PM Oct 4th 2011
Because it still holds the implication that women are there only for vaguely cute eye candy and to depend on men. An emotional dependence is just as sexist as a physical dependence.
05:07:43 AM Oct 5th 2011
But there's plenty of guys on here.
04:15:28 AM Feb 4th 2013
The definition of "Moe" has definitely changed over time. Nowadays it's used to define a sort of sexual fascination with cuteness, whereas in the past "Moe" was definitely more of a Big Brother Instinct feeling. I get the feeling that we should divide the two definitions. There are plenty of male examples on here, but they don't seem to fit the modern definition of "Moe" as much as girls do, more the classic example of giving the reaction that you want to protect them.
09:07:13 AM Jul 22nd 2013
Because it's a weird, broad-yet-specific concept that's really hard to put into words, especially where western audiences are concerned, and therefore there are a ton of misconceptions, such as moe characters only ever being female, or being totally dependent, presumably on a man. It's easier to react with righteous indignation to a weird foreign idea than it is to figure out what the hell it means.
01:06:51 AM Mar 21st 2011
Ok, now what's with most of the real life examples getting moved over to Troper Tales?
08:44:35 PM Mar 22nd 2011
Because they're fucking creepy.
02:56:27 PM Mar 25th 2011
The celebrity examples, you mean (i. e. Felicia Day)? That can't be right. Especially since there are still some left over on the main page.
08:50:02 AM Feb 15th 2011
edited by StephanReiken
EDIT: Fixing up my misguided view

This definition of Moe seems to fail to realize that 'cute' is not a defining characteristic of all Moe. Its certainly the most common, but a brutalized, scarred little girl can easily invoke the Big Brother instinct which pretty much defines Moe.
06:20:14 PM Feb 15th 2011
Do the examples have any clear pattern other than "female character someone happens to find cute"? This is a good example I pulled from the main page that illustrates my problem with how the trope is currently set up:

Highlighted an interesting point.
02:50:03 PM Jul 17th 2013
Isn't moe more of an Audience Reaction trope though? Ergo, the author's intent doesn't make or break moeness.
12:03:58 AM Nov 29th 2010
Is there a trope to describe the opposite of a moe character? Not so much the "weakness turns her on" trope. Think more along these lines— if Moe characters are meant to be attractive because they are cute and helpless, thus instilling in the viewer a desire to be protective of said character, the opposite as far as "fanservice characters" go would be a female who is meant to be someone more nurturing and take charge, who makes the male feel like the character is someone who will take care of them rather than the other way around?
05:32:57 PM Dec 23rd 2010
Someone sort of like Mama Bear?
07:33:53 PM Dec 23rd 2010
Or Hot Amazon. Maybe they could make a daughter trope if anyone could think of an example.
01:45:00 PM Dec 24th 2010
They wouldn't have to be physically stronger. Heck, they could be a Barrier Maiden or a Magical Girl you could count on for protection. Or, they could simply provide emotional support like a mother figure. Am I on the right track here?
01:13:56 AM Apr 8th 2012
edited by MizuTakishima
I think the Mama Bear and Hot Amazon tropes are on the right track, though maybe No Guy Wants an Amazon truly is the opposite of moe. (strong, dominating females aren't considered moe unless they have a ridiculously girly side- like maybe she can fight your battles for you and even be a total brute, but maybe she blushes easily and cleans up nicely)
08:14:43 PM Jul 17th 2012
edited by TroperOnAStickV2
Or Yamato Nadeshiko. I'd expound on that, but I'm too tired to think right now. Get back to y'all tomorrow.

EDIT: Okay, so much for tomorrow-tomorrow. The 'female character who you'd want to take care of you' bit immediately brought to mind Lilly from Katawa Shoujo.
08:03:35 PM Oct 18th 2010
How about a less exploitative scene for the pic, Unfortunate Implications and all? Not all Moe characters are (reduced to) moeblobs.
06:53:28 AM Feb 13th 2011
edited by Kwanzor
That seems like a good idea. And, am I the only one who's getting a really weird creepy vibe from the pic caption? It sounds exactly like the kind of thing a weird otaku Gonk villain might say regarding the situation.
01:13:15 AM Feb 20th 2011
Or Aizen, perhaps, haha.

Something that's outwardly more adorable without the exploitation vibe there.
06:18:22 PM Dec 27th 2011
"Our documentary now focuses on the Moeblob... treat with care, they cry easily."


The caption is still super creepy.
01:57:36 AM Jun 20th 2012
I think that's intentional.
07:43:06 PM Oct 1st 2010
"Also, despite general belief that moe females are more tolerated, often the "bad traits" that make moe girls "offensive", "sexist" and "bad role models" are somehow seen as "cute, squishy and adorable" in boys."

This sentence bugs me. The people that like moe boys are usually too busy fangirling to care one bit about whether moe girls are bad role models. It's not really a double standard if the two different standards are held by two different groups.
07:04:15 AM Feb 13th 2011
Also, the sentence structure is awful.
09:44:18 AM May 20th 2011
Yes, I kind of got confused with that sentence, especially where the beginning of the article said something about how moe traits are accepted/typical in girls, but unacceptable/immature in boys. Contradiction, anyone?
12:31:21 PM Sep 15th 2010
Are we in danger of a Just a Face and a Caption issue? I have no idea what that caption is talking about. It just looks like any anime girl with glasses.
08:07:11 PM Sep 26th 2010
Considering this is about visual appearance, having just a face seems fairly harmless here. Whether or not the picture is an example of this trope is another matter, but it seems like it to me.
07:03:04 AM Feb 13th 2011
12:45:08 AM Mar 16th 2010
edited by Irothtin
Irothtin: This article attempts to give Moe a fairly concrete definition. Thoughts?
07:08:31 AM Mar 26th 2010

Yeah, that seems to sum it up. Makes you wonder if manga writers have that same set of features on their character design cop-out checklist.
09:42:23 AM May 20th 2011
Thanks for posting that (Irothtin). I was wondering what constitutes a moe, and just happened to find this. So basically: Cute, Innocent, Young, Quirky. Got it.
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