Discussion Main / Moe

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Just looked at the Four Laws; the forth basically requires it.

Because it still holds the implication that women are there only for vaguely cute eye candy and to depend on men. An emotional dependence is just as sexist as a physical dependence.

But there's plenty of guys on here.

The definition of "Moe" has definitely changed over time. Nowadays it's used to define a sort of sexual fascination with cuteness, whereas in the past "Moe" was definitely more of a Big Brother Instinct feeling. I get the feeling that we should divide the two definitions. There are plenty of male examples on here, but they don't seem to fit the modern definition of "Moe" as much as girls do, more the classic example of giving the reaction that you want to protect them.

Because it's a weird, broad-yet-specific concept that's really hard to put into words, especially where western audiences are concerned, and therefore there are a ton of misconceptions, such as moe characters only ever being female, or being totally dependent, presumably on a man. It's easier to react with righteous indignation to a weird foreign idea than it is to figure out what the hell it means.

Do the examples have any clear pattern other than "female character someone happens to find cute"? This is a good example I pulled from the main page that illustrates my problem with how the trope is currently set up:

• Chihiro/Sen in Hayao Miyazaki's Spirited Away.
  • While on the topic of Miyazaki, Markl in Howls Moving Castle is kind of moey.
    • Um, no. Miyazaki is actually strongly opposed to moe. Simply having endearing characters in one's works does NOT necessarily make them moe.
    • Miyazaki may be well-known for his opposition to the sexual elements of moe, but that doesn't mean his characters don't sometimes come off looking that way. Call it Author Appeal if you want. Or Only Six Faces.

Highlighted an interesting point.

Isn't moe more of an Audience Reaction trope though? Ergo, the author's intent doesn't make or break moeness.

Yes, definitely. I still don't know why the page image changes so much without image links like most fast image pages have. Since 2011 theres been at least 15 image changes for me and I trope very very infrequently.

Geat! Now. how do I make an image links page.

Go here and start editing. To get more images, you could try digging through the archived IP thread.

Page started.

Yeah, that's really bad. We'll have to do a bit of chainsawing.

Someone sort of like Mama Bear?

Or Hot Amazon. Maybe they could make a daughter trope if anyone could think of an example.

They wouldn't have to be physically stronger. Heck, they could be a Barrier Maiden or a Magical Girl you could count on for protection. Or, they could simply provide emotional support like a mother figure. Am I on the right track here?

I think the Mama Bear and Hot Amazon tropes are on the right track, though maybe No Guy Wants an Amazon truly is the opposite of moe. (strong, dominating females aren't considered moe unless they have a ridiculously girly side- like maybe she can fight your battles for you and even be a total brute, but maybe she blushes easily and cleans up nicely)

Or Yamato Nadeshiko. I'd expound on that, but I'm too tired to think right now. Get back to y'all tomorrow.

EDIT: Okay, so much for tomorrow-tomorrow. The 'female character who you'd want to take care of you' bit immediately brought to mind Lilly from Katawa Shoujo.

Because it goes on the YMMV tab.

That seems like a good idea. And, am I the only one who's getting a really weird creepy vibe from the pic caption? It sounds exactly like the kind of thing a weird otaku Gonk villain might say regarding the situation.

Or Aizen, perhaps, haha.

Something that's outwardly more adorable without the exploitation vibe there.

"Our documentary now focuses on the Moeblob... treat with care, they cry easily."

Welp.

The caption is still super creepy.

I think that's intentional.

Yes.

Apparently, trolls have a sense of humor. Who knew?

Also, the sentence structure is awful.

Yes, I kind of got confused with that sentence, especially where the beginning of the article said something about how moe traits are accepted/typical in girls, but unacceptable/immature in boys. Contradiction, anyone?

Ugh.

Yeah, that seems to sum it up. Makes you wonder if manga writers have that same set of features on their character design cop-out checklist.

Thanks for posting that (Irothtin). I was wondering what constitutes a moe, and just happened to find this. So basically: Cute, Innocent, Young, Quirky. Got it.

Because they're fucking creepy.

The celebrity examples, you mean (i. e. Felicia Day)? That can't be right. Especially since there are still some left over on the main page.

Considering this is about visual appearance, having just a face seems fairly harmless here. Whether or not the picture is an example of this trope is another matter, but it seems like it to me.

Could just change the caption to "THIS CHARACTER HAS TRAITS THAT ARE PARTICULAR TO MOE"