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Jhonny Since: Jan, 2016
Aug 13th 2017 at 10:41:09 AM •••

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  • When countries in Europe first considered building High Speed Rail lines note  there were debates on whether to build the new lines passenger only or for both freight and passengers. Passenger only lines can be steeper (Frankfurt-Cologne has a 4% incline in its steepest parts) because high speed trains are by their very nature powerful and lightweight, meaning they have no major problems climbing mountains. Freight trains on the other hand have no major problems with curves, as they don't reach high speeds anyway, but due to their immense weight they need a flat line. In France the high speed lines were designed passenger only (if you exclude the Postal TGV which is basically a passenger train carrying letters instead of people) and thus much cheaper. In Germany the longest trunk line - Hannover Würzburg - was built for both passengers and freight though it is only used for freight during the night due to capacity constraints. This lead to higher maintenance costs and higher construction costs as about half of the Hannover-Würzburg line is either in tunnels or on bridges.

The edit summary reads "It's more expensive, but nothing is said about its actual effectiveness in both areas."

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Jhonny Since: Jan, 2016
Aug 13th 2017 at 10:42:21 AM •••

I shall try and address this.

In very simple terms, mixing slow and fast trains on the same line drastically reduces the capacity. Hence you get a more expensive line that has lower capacity - unless perhaps you use it for freight only at night...

AnotherDuck Since: Jul, 2012
Aug 13th 2017 at 11:48:24 AM •••

The example does state it uses it for freight at night. You also need to consider what the alternatives would cost, which in this case would be two separate lines, or an alternate route.

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Jhonny Since: Jan, 2016
Aug 14th 2017 at 12:54:15 PM •••

They'd be cheaper and able to carry both more freight and more passengers.

Compare the costs of French and German HSL, especially the likes of Hannover-Würzburg (built for freight)

AnotherDuck Since: Jul, 2012
Aug 15th 2017 at 1:42:05 PM •••

Demonstrating those costs and capacities is up to you if you rewrite the example. If you compare other lines, it also has to include why they're better at doing the same job. Not just each individual job, but everything the example can do. Essentially, you have to demonstrate why it's not an advantage that it can take both types of cargo, and that both of those jobs can be done better for a lower cost even if combined.

As for the capacity, that has to be judged against the requirement for the line. If the requirement isn't higher than what the current line can handle, then a higher capacity doesn't matter.

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Jhonny Since: Jan, 2016
Aug 16th 2017 at 10:43:24 AM •••

Rail lines exist for centuries and almost all of them cannot be easily built for more tracks than currently exist - you have to build for growth always.

Jhonny Since: Jan, 2016
Aug 16th 2017 at 10:56:21 AM •••

Also, a railway line with mixed traffic is not only "full" faster, it is also able to handle less trains than a line with only trains at the same speed. Plus heavy freight trains do stuff to tracks that fast trains really don't like.

AnotherDuck Since: Jul, 2012
Aug 16th 2017 at 12:13:27 PM •••

If you can't build more tracks, then you can't have one line for each type, unless you build two full and completely separate lines. Is two lines cheaper than one combined?

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Jhonny Since: Jan, 2016
Aug 19th 2017 at 11:07:26 AM •••

Land values obviously make such comparisons difficult, but a freight only line can avoid expensive parcels of land by going around them - HSR has to go through or under it.

Same with mountains. Freight has to go around them or build a tunnel. HSR can absorb up to 4% inclines without problems.

So unless you have one line where land values are crazy cheap, it is often less expensive to build separate lines for freight and passenger travel.

And those lines are then vastly more efficient at doing what they're supposed to do.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011
Jan 12th 2014 at 11:01:38 PM •••

I deleted Yukari Takeba from Persona 3 because she's specialized in healing and wind damage. The point of this trope is that a character is so varied that they end up mediocre compared to other, more specialized characters. The character she replaced in the entry, Ken Amada, is a better example because he specializes in Light insta-kill magic, electricity damage magic, healing magic, and physical damage. That's 2 more things than the more focused Yukari.

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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011
Jul 8th 2015 at 10:38:17 PM •••

Last year I deleted Yukari and replace her with Ken. A few months later I find this reversed with the following edit reason:

Nope. His hama spells (when combined with hama boost) serve well and he gains Mediarahan. His lightning magic is useful as a knockdown option like Junpei's agi spells and he gains massive healing which helps as he's not weak to lightning magic.

Going through this and the now deleted Yukari entry point-by-point:

1. No party member that can heal gets Amrita, especially Ken. That's not a point for Yukari being this trope, especially if you're trying to paint Ken as better at healing overall.

2. Ken doesn't get Zio Boost or Amp without equipment either, and his magic stat is lower than Yukari's. Magic damage wise Yukari is superior.

3. In relation to 2, what suddenly precludes Yukari's wind spells from knockdown use? Especially when her higher magic stat means she set's up for more punishing All-Out Attacks that way?

4. Ken has a window from level 37 to level 42 where he's better, because he learns Mediarama at level 37 to Yukari's level 43. Aside from that, Yukari is better because she learns her healing skills faster than Ken.

5. Koromaru has Mudo Boost and Mamudoon, giving him superiority to Ken in Insta-kills outside of Light-weakness shadows.

6. Yukari can equip a 400 base damage bow that gives her Wind Boost(the only weapon better than that is one that raises all her stats by +10 and has 450 base damage) and Thor's Gloves to block her weakness. Ken can't block his weakness and boost his lightning damage at the same time with equipment.

In conclusion: Yukari can out damage Ken in magic any day of the week, she gets her best healing skill earlier than Ken, and Ken isn't even better with insta-kills than another party member outside hitting a specific weaknesses.

Please consider reading my argument before you decide if Yukari is worth re-adding to the page.

Edited by VeryMelon
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010
Jul 9th 2015 at 6:20:52 AM •••

Yes, Ken's a better example.

Now, I don't think there being a better example necessarily precludes someone from counting, but Yukari doesn't count given the fact she is the best healer in the game, and a good magic-user.

Ken, on the other hand, is outclassed by Koro in terms of OHKO, Akihiko in terms of melee and Zio, Yukari in terms of healing and magic.

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BoulderSmolder Since: Dec, 2011
Dec 30th 2011 at 5:16:14 PM •••

I changed the Team Fortress 2 entry to say "Pyro is one of the easiest classes," since most players agree he is more difficult to use than the Heavy (LO Lpoint-and-click), and many think he is as difficult as the Medic or Soldier at higher levels of play. I probably should have changed the "Spy is the most difficult" part too, but that would be much more controversial (I personally think Scout and Sniper are more difficult because they require more reflex skills, but some people who have better execution probably find Spy harder because of the one-the-spot planning involved).

I also changed the point on the video; it is irrelevant to the Pyro's status, but not because of its intention to show the Pyro as easy (The video maker is an experienced FPS player, and since aiming and clicking fundamentals are fairly similar for all classes outside of the Soldier/Demoman, it's obvious you get better at all classes by playing with other classes). Rather, it's irrelevant because most of the impressive stuff in the video is impractical for a competitive environment.

I'm considering scrapping the entry as a whole; the Pyro's not quite as unpopular in competitive TF 2 as some would imagine. He's still used on several maps, especially Badlands, and he's probably the best character in the game once he gets onto a point due to his airblast. He's still more situational than the other classes, but he's hardly as bad as many people used to think.

Just don't put him up against a Heavy.

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