I know nothing of editing or discussing cause i dont normally edit wiki's so pardon if i step on any feet here. I came to the mary sue page actually looking for a trope that I thought would be there, which in my own head I call emo-sue. basically I characterize it as the fact that there are a lot of the "I'm dark, I love coffins and death, and I ooze angst" type characters around. I dont know if I just looked over it, but if there is not such a page as this would someone please be kind enough to creat one (not funny enough or literate enough in what ever sort of formatting you guys use here to do it myself.)

I have a feeling a sufficient number of mary sues are Creators Pet for there to be a link to each others pages (i would do this myself, but i don't the clearance to edit a locked page)

Is it possible to totally subvert this a la Broken Ace in that she's a character who's beautiful, multi-talented, and friggin insane? Not just kinda off insane, like Loony Fan armed with a meat cleaver insane.

The entry for Jerk Sue uses some pretty sexist language. Could somebody change "bitch" to "asshole" and "I have constant PMS" to "I rage over the littlest things," or something like that?

Gendered insults aren't classy at all, and blaming a girl's shitty personality on her uterus is a sexist as it gets.

The Entry for Marty Stu and Mary Sue says to list examples on their respective subpages. Each subpage, however, states not to add examples. Why is this?

I think everyone who edits this page needs to take a look at this essay with an open mind: http://adventuresofcomicbookgirl.tumblr.com/post/13913540194/mary-sue-what-are-you-or-why-the-concept-of-sue-is

Can someone add Republic Of Mary Sue to the list of Mary Sue types on this page?

...so basically a Mary Sue is every single fictional character that has more depth than a cardboard cutout?

Regarding the deluge of different definitions... I was always under the impression that a Mary Sue, essentially, was a thinly-veiled wish fulfilment character. That's a broad thing, so it could mean ridiculous superpowers, it could mean the rest of the characters treat them differently, could refer to any of the ideas flagged up as "disparate," and while it's rarely all of above it's always some.

I'm kind of surprised not to see the phrase "wish fulfilment" in the article, is effectively what I'm saying, as it's a fairly neat and tidy way of more or less explaining a concept that's been skirted around but not once nailed on the head. People argue that Mary Sues take many forms because wish fulfilment takes many forms - nothing to do with a lack of consensus.

Or maybe that's just me presenting another conflicting argument! Who knows? Just thought I'd throw it out there.

There is a reference to Wil Wheaton who has a page on tvtropes.org but it isn't linkified as it isn't written as Wil Wheaton - can this be fixed?

This article seems written as its real aim was not to explain a concept to the reader, but to cautiously reflect a political consensus among disagreeing tropers. It may be just an impression, but atm the article strikes me as rather unhelpful to a reader who hasn't read about Mary Sue and just wants to find out. Way too many words wasted on disclaimers for the information actually conveyed, and I wonder if a major rewrite is in order.

No consensus on definition? Well, Laconic Wiki managed just fine...

What do they call OBJECTS such as weapons and armor that fit under the same catagory as Mary Sues?

I think the question of whether or not a well written and realistic Author Avatar qualifies as a Mary Sue is rather stupid and causes unnecessary confusion.

One of the main traits of a Mary Sue is that it's a self-insert character/Author Avatar who exists for sake of wish-fulfillment. I think the wish-fulfillment part is the most important part here. If the Author Avatar is realistically written then there's no way it can be a Mary Sue.

In short: Just because a Mary Sue is usually a self-insert character does NOT mean that every self-insert character is a Mary Sue.

I've been thinking about the Mary Sue thing for a while, and I think I came up with a good summarization; If the character in question can basically be summed up as "They're sort of like Jesus, except..." then it's most likely a Mary Sue. Just to clarify, I mean that they are treated by other characters as if they were Jesus, and anyone who dislikes them is treated like a pharisee.

Can some one add the line "Has nothing to doing with a certain founder's wife"?

Request for an edit to the page: Could an admin change the line:

• Can you have a male Sue? On this one, at least, there's agreement in theory — few people would actually say all Sues are female — but female characters still tend to face more scrutiny.

to

• Can you have a male Sue? On this one, at least, there's agreement in theory — few people would actually say all Sues are female — but female characters still tend to face more scrutiny, due to the fact that Most Fanfic Writers Are Girls.

(In other words, add "due to the fact that Most Fanfic Writers Are Girls." to the line in question)

Thanks
Luc "Explain your reasoning" French

I have a gripe with the phrase "TV Tropes Wiki doesn't get to set what the term means." It sounds like a direct confrontation to the editors here. I understand that's probably why the page is locked in the first place, but you could say "There is no single definition of what a Mary Sue is exactly," which would get the same point across without sounding so standoffish

If I could, I'd add an additional definition that seems to get used implicitly a lot on this very wiki. (I haven't formulated it exactly in my mind yet, but it's roughly "Mary Sue as a character whom the story treats in a biased way," which shares elements of the many existing definitions but is identical with none of them.)

It is this troper's opinion that "exceptionally talented in an implausibly wide variety of areas" or a smaller portion of that should be potholed to Universal Drivers License, but the article's editing is locked. :<