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irishladdie727
topic
11:13:10 PM Aug 29th 2011
This needs to be called "The Mario" again.
Twentydragon
06:10:45 PM Sep 9th 2011
I disagree. While I am a great fan of Mario, this new title is just as clever and interesting. It also does a better job at capturing the essence of the trope than the old name.
blueflame724
01:19:49 AM Sep 10th 2011
I would have to agree with Twenty Dragon; trope names are meant to be universal and intuitive, not simply based upon an iconic character. Besides, "the Mario" is still one of the alternate names.
DelShiftB
11:00:07 AM Oct 4th 2011
edited by DelShiftB
"The Mario", as described, doesn't imply a character that's more powerful then the rest of the team, such as when you look at games like Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door. It also doesn't imply a non-average character, like Mario in Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour, where he has better range but worse control (Yoshi would fit this better). If a character subverts his own trope like that, then it's not a good trope name.

If you want it renamed to something else, why not call it "The Human"? Games like D&D and others based off of it generally referred to the average character as human, giving them no special bonuses or penalties beyond being average.
MetalKing1417
07:59:03 PM Oct 7th 2011
We already have a trope for humans being the Jack of all stats. It's called Humans Are Average.
NeonBlue27
11:38:38 PM Oct 15th 2011
Jack of All Stats doesn't roll off the tongue very well. It's so bad. Who even suggested it?

The Mario was a good name. Mario is well known, and in many games he IS the most balanced, average character. Luigi is taller and jumps higher, as well as getting to throw lightning balls and use the negative zone, the Princess can float, Bowser's the powerhouse of the series. What does Mario have? He gets to be the main character, which means his stats are normally absolutely average and his ability is purely reliant on the story. In Paper Mario, all of his abilities come from items he finds, characters he befriends, or badges he equips - he truly is The Mario.
Trismegustis
07:34:30 AM Nov 1st 2011
Not to mention that if one doesn't understand the way the trope is being used here on TV Tropes, they can read the page. We constantly give up some of our best trope names under the theory that "some people may not have heard of this character!" when what we should be doing is encouraging people to learn about them. It's obvious what kind of character we're talking about in the first paragraph, so why does the name matter so much? Everyone knows what we mean when they finish reading the page.

Even if we don't go back to The Mario, this trope name is absolutely no better. "Jack of all Stats" has just as much potential to be confusing to anyone who doesn't know, for example, the phrase "Jack of all Trades." How many people can you name who use "Jack" as anything but a proper name and a part you use to change a car tire? Just taking the character name out of the trope does not necessarily create a less confusing or more indicative name.
blueflame724
02:51:55 AM Nov 2nd 2011
Jack, Joe, whatever you want to call it. It's meant to evoke a sense of an average person. The name matters because it is supposed to indicate the essence of the trope. What is Mario most well known for? I'd say being a good jumper(his original was Jumpman after all). Generally, you want a trope to feel applicable to all kinds of works. It would feel odd calling Sonic a "mario". Plus it's somewhat contradictory; if people don't know the trope, they can look it up yet changing the name would make it worse?
Trismegustis
11:39:34 AM Nov 2nd 2011
edited by Trismegustis
Not worse, just not better. What I'm driving at is that the new name is more generic, but doesn't really do anything to make it clearer. If there was a name that was clear, intuitive, and catchy, I'd be all for a rename, but I oppose renaming this page when, really, the Mario fit about as well.

And yeah, Jack or Joe or Jim or Bill or Whoever all elicit the sense of an average person. To a native English speaker. Because it's derived from a term used in 1592 to insult Shakespeare, Johannes Factotum. But that's highly idiomatic. I'm not saying a trope name should only be changed if there's a perfect, widely-comprehended better name for it, I'm just sayin' that this change doesn't really seem to meet our standards.
MrDeath
12:27:39 PM Nov 2nd 2011
It's a snoclone from Jack-of-All-Trades, people. More fitting when you consider that, since the existing phrase has the existing connotation of "Master of None," which is exactly what this trope is about: A character whose skills let him do everything passably, but not exceptionally.
Trismegustis
11:26:59 PM Nov 2nd 2011
That's funny, I thought we didn't like snowclones anymore.
MrDeath
01:52:49 PM Nov 3rd 2011
If it fits, it fits.
aaeyero
08:50:22 PM Jan 8th 2012
So this finally got renamed? Finally! I've been away for awhile, and I guess it was just a matter of time.
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