Why shouldn't this page have examples? There's plenty of tropes with a warning saying the examples are full of spoilers; wouldn't that work just as well here?
Linking to a past Trope Repair Shop thread that dealt with this page: Re do for the namer only
, started by nuclearneo577 on Feb 5th 2011 at 2:53:58 AM
Previous Trope Repair Shop thread: Needs Help, started by Magestad on Nov 19th 2015 at 4:49:49 AM
Giraffe Choreographer
I think examples ARE needed, you just don't WANT examples, TV Tropes.
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That's nice.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
They were cut because they were effectively a list of spoilers. And because people were complaining about being spoiled.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Image suggestions can be made on the image suggestion thread: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1452266899092104700&page=115#2858
I feel like this trope really needs a new name, or else to just be folded in with All There Is to Know About "The Crying Game". Because, at least for this troper, Rosebud being the sled is all I know about Citizen Kane, while I have zero clue what "The Crying Game" even is.
Pop-Cultural Osmosis Failure already leaves open the possibility that All There Is To Know will eventually become a Non-Indicative Name as fewer and fewer people remember "The Crying Game". So instead of having a treadmill of trope names where the well-known example becomes all there is to know become forgotten, why not just merge the two and call it a day?
Yes.
Is the Trope Namer really the best-known example, as the page claims? I think the reveal at the end of The Empire Strikes Back blows it completely out of the water. I wouldn't expect a little kid to know what Rosebud is, but everyone knows that Darth Vader is Luke's father.
I'm a Troper!!! Hide / Show Replies
There's already a trope called Luke, I Am Your Father.
The answer to life and everything is in this place As are the numbers most favored by Two-Face
Dr. Zeppo
Are there specific criteria that must be met for a work to qualify for having an It Was His Sled moment?
The answer to life and everything is in this place As are the numbers most favored by Two-Face
NO PLACE TO HIDE
Didn't there used to be a picture of said burning sled on this page? Like, recently?
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Not as far as I know.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Should have a comparison link to All You Need To Know About The Crying Game, which is when the It Was His Sled moment becomes the only thing most people know about a work.
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You can ask here.
41314
All There Is To Know About The Crying Game should probably be referenced (in slight contrast to this trope, of course) and linked from here, but this article is locked from editing. Could someone with the authority to edit it take care of that?
the world is so complicated Hide / Show Replies
I second the above. I would pothole ATITKATCG from the text "central fact known even to those only noddingly familiar with the work".
Was coming here to say exactly that. Just see another comment on here saying that knowing it's the sled doesn't even tell you much about the Trope Namer.
Can we mention the fact that anyone who's actually seen Citizen Kane should realize that knowing Rosebud is his sled pretty much spoils nothing. In fact the entire point of the movie is that Kane's last words don't matter at all because a man's life can't be summed up by a measly phrase. This is directly stated in the conclusion.
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It might be worth pointing out that it may spoil for person who would be one of lucky 10,000 (source: http://xkcd.com/1053/).
Dammit, I did not know the ending to Citizen Kane or anything else about the movie and had it on my list of movies to watch some day. Then I started browsing tvtropes. Bad move.
I think that the page should actually list examples, like it did before.
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According to the lockout page:
"Examples lockout to prevent accidental spoilerage when people add spoilers that don't qualify for the trope."
It's not. Because when it did have examples, people were adding things from the latest chapters of the series.
The reveals that were here weren't as well-known as people thought. The page was rife with Fan Myopia which really spoiled the page.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
Everyone knows Marx and his evil act, right? Everyone does know him! There. That's an example!
Jonah Falcon
A more famous example is in Peanuts, in which Linus tells Lucy he's watching Citizen Kane for the first time. Lucy tells him, "Rosebud was the name of his sled", causing Linus to scream in anguish.
Jonah Falcon Hide / Show Replies
How about Batman Beyond's ending, "Epilogue"? It's been over 5 years since the episode aired and now with the DCU launching a Batman Beyond mini-series, the fact that Terry is Bruce's son is really well known.
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Mr. Initial Man
Can I ask that Pop-Cultural Osmosis Failure (or its redirect W Hat Was Whose Sled) be linked as well?
Not That Doctor
Please remind me in detail as to why there are no examples.
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Inquisitor
Would it be possible to just purge the entire page?
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I actually just meant purging the examples. Sorry, I should be more specific next time.
Probably because of Fan Myopia. A lot of entries on the page amounted to "My specific fandom knows this, ergo everyone must know it," instead of the trope's definition, which is, "Even people who've never seen it and have no intention of ever seeing it know the twist."
I'm unsure if this can be added. Thoughts?
- Avatar The Last Airbender: Aang defeats the Fire Lord.
I think there's quite a bit about Avatar that at this point has become common knowledge to anyone interested in Western Animation. Among them would be that Azula conquers the earth kingdom from within, that Zuko does a Heel–Face Turn (though not until season 3), that Azula has a Villainous Breakdown at the end of the series, and, yes, that Aang defeats the Fire Lord. Exactly how Aang does this (Energybending) seems less well known, and I'm not sure if it should be included or not.
Edited by batfan I'll just stand here... and... pose.
Santa Claus darn it batfan, I didn't realize the first and the third until you wrote them down just now! And I know without even looking at your stupid spoiler that it says energybending.
Edited by SomeGuy See you in the discussion pages.
OK, Some Guy, I'm sorry, although you're hardly the first person spoiled by something on this page. The first one can get taken out, but I'm quite surprised that you didn't know about the third one, considering that just about everywhere on this wiki that I've seen that it's been unmarked, plus the fact that Azula is THE PAGE PICTURE for Villainous Breakdown. And there's no way you could have guessed what the spoiler says if you didn't already know.
Edited by batfan I'll just stand here... and... pose.
Oh, it's OK. It's probably just dumb luck that up until now I had only seen spoilers for those two.
Incidentally, I've removed the Azula page picture, since a spoiler like that has no business being a page picture, particularly one that only people who have seen the show will get.
See you in the discussion pages.
Yes, we can add that Zuko does a Heel–Face Turn (though not until Season 3; this is important, because Zuko not doing a Heel–Face Turn at the end of season 2 was probably the biggest twist in the series) and the fact that Aang beats the Fire Lord at the end.
I'll just stand here... and... pose.
It probably shouldn't be mentioned when exactly Zuko does the Heel–Face Turn because, like you said, it was a major twist that he didn't do the Heel–Face Turn in Season 2. And that one definitely wouldn't count for this trope.
It was a major twist, and as such, it got out pretty quickly. After all, that's the point of this trope: major plot twists that stop surprising people because of so much word-of-mouth. Being the biggest twist of the show, and also something that's pretty much common knowledge, I think it belongs here, but if you want to get rid of it, that's fine. The fact that he does do a Heel–Face Turn should deffinitely stay, though, because everybody knows that, even people who aren't fans of the show or Western Animation.
I'll just stand here... and... pose.
Aang defeats the Fire Lord? I, for one, didn't know that yet. But it's kind of obvious seeing as that has to happen. It would be like a spoiler saying "Harry defeats Voldemort". It's well known due to, I think it would be called genre savyyness, wouldn't you say? So does it really belong in this category?
Never mind the Family Guy example - I have a Peanuts collection book that dates from at LEAST the seventies with a strip that does almost exactly the same thing (except without profanity or boob references, though much the same emotion). Who knows, the FG line may even be an homage to that.
Would it be worth putting as a title image if I can find it and scan it?
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12-9 '73
◊.
I can't think right now of how that would be made into a page image, but anyone who wants to try is welcome.
she her hers hOI!!! i'm tempe
Page image or not, that Peanuts strip should be mentioned in the article. Not necessarily in place of the Family Guy example, but on par with it. Schulz is largely responsible for making Rosebud the open secret it is; without a doubt, he spoiled way more people than MacFarlane did. It was uncharacteristically nasty of him.
Edited by Zeke FiveMinute.net: because stuff is long and life is short
Uuuhm, no examples?
EDIT: Gee, Fast Eddie, what a big surprise, /sarcasm.
"This defines a fanspeak term, no need for any examples" THAT WOULD INCLUDE HALF THE PAGES ON THIS DAMN SITE!
Edited by SquigPie Hide / Show Replies
Yeah, how come no examples? I know it has to be specifically mainstream, but is it really so hard to keep under control that we have no say no examples at all?
Yes, because every fandom seems to think its big plot twists are "mainstream" and already well known.
Fan Myopia. Check the Trope Repair Shop discussion. It wasn't just Fast Eddie, it was many other tropers.
You got some dirt on you. Here's some more!
Origin 9
Many of the examples on this discussion really don't belong here, because they aren't well known enough. Therefore I've decided to make a list of the one's that I believe belong on this list (I'm quite sure that none of these will really spoil anything, because they're so well known):
Star Wars: "Luke, I am your father" Citizen Kane: The Trope Namer Soylent Green: It's people! Final Fantasy VII: Aerith is killed The Bible: Jesus comes back to life! (shocker!)
I really should be outside right now... Hide / Show Replies
Those are, respectively, two of the most well known films ever, one of the most well-known memes, one of the biggest video games ever, and the most printed and sold book in the history of the printed word.
In what world are any of them "not well known enough"?
Edit: Oh, seems I misread. Did you mean those are ones that do belong?
Edited by MrDeath
Role Model
I think that the Penny Arcade quote should be finished. It ends with "...Have you seen The Passion yet? Here's a spoiler for you. Jesus dies."
Also, it could include a link to the comic itself, here: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/12/5/
The old page image is a shirt, right? ...Where can I buy that shirt?
Cesare Impersonator
I wanted to pothole the line about the twist becoming the central thing people know about the work to All There Is To Know About The Crying Game, but I can't do that because it's locked. I'd appreciate it if some mod-type person could either put that in for me or unlock it. (It seems unlikely that people would try to add examples back in now that they've all been purged and replaced with an explicit statement that there's not going to be any examples.)
I think this page needs a serious purge. Honestly, I think this trope should only apply to things that actually are apart of popular culture. So the vast majority of Anime examples. comic book examples, western animation examples, all of the internet examples a decent handful of the literature examples and a few of the film examples should be moved to You Should Know This Already.
Obviously this is a big move and I am reluctant to do it without a large consensus alongside me.
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I agree fully. "Mainstream" has a much narrower definition than what fans would like to admit.
Agree 100%. Just because fans of the work/medium are well aware of the twist doesn't mean Pop Culture (i.e. the World at Large) is. The video game section is just one sick mess of spoilers, some for games that aren't even that big a part of popular culture. Don't even get me started on the entries for every single freaking Final Fantasy game.
Agree. How many people have even heard of Oldboy? Seriously? Did The Simpsons or Family Guy ever have an episode parodying Trigun?
I cut Release=euthanasia for "The Giver." I'm an English teacher and have taught this book to quite a few students over the past few years. Although a few were able to guess it from Lowry's clues, NONE of them knew it coming in. This one doesn't count.
How about Twin Peaks, where Laura Palmer was murdered by her own father? That is consistent with my experience. I rented the entire series on VHS in the early 1990s because I had only ever seen bits of it. Two different people told me the ending before I had even watched the first episode all the way through. I wasn't too happy about this, but then I overheard somebody else discussing the ending in a completely different situation. So the ending of Twin Peaks to me at least does seem like a genuine example of It Was His Sled.
The current image does not belong here, because many of those movies/stories are NOT that old or based on historical events.
Removed:
- John (the Revelator) "dies" at the end.
- As in, he is no longer on this earth, but rather in the Heavenly plane.
- What we mean to say is, he is an ex-prophet.
- I don't know how else to put this, he has joined the bleedin' choir invisible.
- What we mean to say is, he is an ex-prophet.
- As in, he is no longer on this earth, but rather in the Heavenly plane.
OK, serious question. Would Tex's gender in Red Vs Blue count as one of these? Initially they tried to keep it mysterious, but on the DVD it gets spoiled in the opening credits—'Kathleen' isn't really a Gender-Blender Name.
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I think these don't belong here:
- Zanafar Armor's Power Source is a near invincible deamon beast called Zanafar.
- You might as well be wearing a wet paper bag, since spoiler: as soon as there is a cut or crack in the armor, it releases the Zanafar, a nigh unbeatable demon, that was contained inside.
- Pokota is really the prince of Taforussia.
- Valgaav lives, but is turned into a baby
- He also spoiler: does a Heel–Face Turn after being raised properly by Sylphiel
SoYeah
Some questionable examples I grabbed:
- Fullmetal Alchemist. Envy kills Hughes. King Bradley is a homunculus.
- The Other Yugi's real name is Atem/Atemu. He was a pharaoh in ancient Egypt. And he dies at the end.
- Itachi dies.
- Spike dies.
- One Piece: Portgas D. Ace is the son of Gold D. Roger.
- He is also dead.
- Batman Begins: Rachel gets much less annoying, via The Other Darrin, in the next movie. Then she gets blown up. Mother. Fucker.
- Also, Harvey Dent becomes Two-Face in TDK, as opposed to saving him for a later movie, like the previous Batman film series did.
- The main features of the nine year long conspiracy plotline of The X Files have become common knowledge. "Purity Control" is a secret government project to save human beings from prearranged enslavement by aliens (who propagate via a black oil called "Purity") by engineering a new human race with D.N.A. from aliens (who have toxic green blood and an unclear relation to the black oil aliens) who will be immune to Purity. Mulder's sister was abducted to be a test subject for this project, and Mulder's father, his partner Agent Krycek, his Deep Throat contact, and the man who's always hanging around A.D. Skinner's office smoking cigarettes, were all once involved in the project.
- And let's not forget the huge reveal at the end of Season 8: Mulder is William's father. Which, to fans of the show, wasn't that big of a reveal. It was more of a given. Even people who didn't watch The X-Files knew this.
- Exception: The ending of the long-running play The Mousetrap is the most infamous open secret in theater history - the audience is sworn to secrecy at the conclusion of each performance, and the terms of the original contract prevent the story from being published or filmed until after the show has closed. Everyone who has seen the play has done a fairly good job over the years of keeping mum, and the text of the play has never been published in the UK. (There is, however, an urban legend regarding a cab driver who dropped a number of playgoers off at the theater in question, was stiffed on the tip, and shouted as he drove away, "—— did it, you cheap gits!"). Indeed, when the play The Real Inspector Hound parodied The Mousetrap, its producers refused to sue on the basis that doing so would publicly reveal the ending.
- However, the partwork The Agatha Christie Collection did publish the text of The Mousetrap. Regarding the cab-driver anecdote, in some versions of the story he's said to have shouted "The butler did it!", which is said to be the origin of this phrase. (There is no butler in The Mousetrap.)
- I don't understand why it is such a big surprise at who the murderer is. Not even here.
Dalek Alert!
Snape kills Trinity with Rosebud? ...I just won Clue with that.
Of all the posts I've made, this is one of them.
Can we please elaborate on It was his sled. I don't get the name orgin at all. Never saw Citizan kane. Looked it up on wikipedia but its so confusing so can someone just tell it here. thanks
I'm gone from this site. Takes up too much time Hide / Show Replies
The beginning of "Citizen Kane" has the main character (Charles Kane) dying, his last words being "Rosebud..." When those who knew Kane are informed of this, they are baffled as to what it could be and eventually deduce that it is an enigma, that "Rosebud" must have been something Kane (who had achieved nearly everything he ever wanted in life) had never gotten. At the end of the film, it's revealed that "Rosebud" is, in fact, just the name of his childhood sled from the only period in his life where he was genuinely happy at all.
Edited by SuperFlash101
Can we add the Megaman X4 big reveal, that: 1. Megaman's helper is a bad guy, and the final miniboss. 2. Silvia (or whatever her name is) turns into a boss and DIES. plx
And I'm a DC
I've considered putting the Watchmen example on this page for a while, but I never did, because everwhere that I've seen it on this wiki, it's come with the spoiler tag, although it has been admitted several times that the spoiler tag is kind of pointless, because the secret is so out. Still, the identity of the Watchmen Big Bad, AKA He-Who-Did-It-35-Minutes-Ago, is actually very carefully guarded on this wiki. Literally, the only times I have ever seen Adrain Veidt's name unspoilered on the entire wiki has been on the WMG and It Just Bugs Me! pages for Watchmen, and both of those come with spoiler disclaimers. That's really not something that can be said for most twists on this wiki. So Yeah, I'm taking the example down, for now, but I'm open to discussion if anyone really thinks it belongs here.
Edited by batfan I'll just stand here... and... pose.
Per TRS, the following changes have been made:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1641397409021796600
You can't always get what you want.