Main Instant Death Bullet Discussion

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TuefelHundenIV
Topic
07:40:44 PM Sep 15th 2014
edited by 208.77.174.14
While this example is rather generic to be listed on a trope or work page this looks like it would be a good fit for an author/creator page as a trope they are known to use and its aversion/subversions. The Para bombing needs to go but other then that it looks like an over all viable example.

I do not know Agatha Christie's works well enough to know if it would work as described so someone who knows should give it a look over.

  • In Agatha Christie's novels, victims of shootings (or stabbings) often die instantly, without making a sound or a mess. (At other times, they live long enough to give a Dying Clue).
TuefelHundenIV
Topic
07:06:35 AM Aug 2nd 2014
edited by 208.77.174.14
I am noticing a bit of a trend with entries. Namely it is fairly common for Subversions and played straight to be present abundantly sometimes in the same scene if not the same work. This stood out a lot when I was going over scenes from the Godfather movies. It was fairly common to see single shot deaths, multi-shot deaths, and surviving being shot.

This seems to show up in works that have a realistic or semi-realistic use of fire arms.

While not the only example it is the one that stood out to me because of recent clean up and maintenance work.

I was thinking maybe adding a small bit in the blurb at both it being played straight and subverted in the same being both possible and reasonably common.
SeptimusHeap
07:19:51 AM Aug 2nd 2014
You know, even in Real Life some instances of bullet shots are going to be one-hit kills. That makes me wonder whether a work using all kind of outcomes (one hit kill here, multi hit kill there...) counts for this trope at all.
TuefelHundenIV
07:38:44 PM Sep 15th 2014
I am starting to think if it is reasonably presented in a fashion that would be considered realistic if it would count. The only way I could think of that would make it notable is if it used to further the plot or is used to knock off Mook or Red Shirt characters. Instant Death Bullet becomes a tool for driving the plot in that case or dealing with numbers of enemies in a quick fashion which is common in many "realistic" fictional portrayals such as war films.
TuefelHundenIV
Topic
04:01:56 PM Jul 15th 2014
edited by 208.77.174.14
While the scene is pretty specific what about the rest of the game? Do you kill any mooks in one shot? Do any of the other games set up some sort of expectation for there to be instant death bullets from anything?

If Instant Death Bullets occur elsewhere it sounds like it is a subversion.

  • Averted gruesomely in the new Tomb Raider (2013). Lara's first kill with a gun is during a struggle where she shoots her aggressor in the head at point-blank range (averting Pretty Little Headshots into the bargain) leaving him gurgling on the ground for almost half a minute before finally expiring. Lara is understandably freaked out about it.
TuefelHundenIV
Topic
06:56:39 PM Jul 14th 2014
edited by 208.77.174.14
For the character dying is he shot three time ins a row before dying or is he shot once the robber realizes he wasn 't dead and then shoots him some more causing him to die? What makes it averted, as in is there anything that sets the expectation for there to be IDB moments?

  • Averted in Sword Art Online: When Sinon grabbed a gun from a robber, it took three point-blank shots before he finally died. Each of those shots was implied to be individually lethal, but it does take at least a couple of minutes to bleed out from a gunshot. In the game Gun Gale Online it works this way sometimes, but that's another trope.
SeptimusHeap
02:00:31 AM Jul 15th 2014
From the example writeup, I am inferring that it says it's averted because the bullet didn't kill him on the spot. Personally, I consider this a trope misuse and I am inclined to remove it.
TuefelHundenIV
03:57:39 PM Jul 15th 2014
Sounds good.
TuefelHundenIV
Topic
06:47:16 PM Jul 14th 2014
edited by 208.77.174.14
This was added to definition blurb.

The problem with "how it is employed" is that is extremely variable. It can just as easily be used to cause mood whiplash as avoid it. It entirely depends on the work in question and if any reason beyond common depiction is used like it is in many action films. A nasty mook or villain dying a slow painful death with a character watching would not necessarily mean the character is less sympathetic or not a hero. It really depends on the depiction in the work.

Mortally wounded enemies and allies alike are frequently shown despite plenty of IDB being present. Often used as a dramatic moment or as a big reveal as a dying minion or mook gives away their bosses plan or a trusted ally perishes.

As for Aeon Flux that scene in particular is in the first episode. No dialogue is exchanged and the character is simply shot as Aeon is running through the sewers fighting everyone who crosses her path. The character is simply shot and takes a several seconds to die crying. That character and a dying fellow soldier are shown to be already dying of a plague spread by a small beetle.

Even if Aeon had done that it would not make her a villain. Less sympathetic maybe but it takes a bit more to be a villain character.
It is often employed to avoid Mood Whiplash. It becomes harder to root for a hero if we see a recently shot mook crying and moaning and begging for a doctor while the hero ignores his or her pleas in favor of a wisecrack as the mook bleeds out. An example this can be found in one of the early episodes of AEONFLUX when the narrative switches from the heroine to focus on a nameless female mook Flux shoots. Instead of dying instantly, we see her suffering terribly until she finally expires, which turns Flux into a villain, not a hero. To avoid this effect, unless there is a story-related reason for doing so (or the person being shot is a major character, whether a big bad or a hero), it's generally considered more expeditious to have the person instantly die.

TuefelHundenIV
Topic
04:32:39 PM Jun 25th 2014
This example is at best questionable. Is there any reason to expect instant death bullet to show up as a trope? If so in what context? Proper examples need to stand on their own without relying on a link that may change, expire, or be taken down.

TuefelHundenIV
Topic
07:31:56 PM Oct 1st 2013
For Breaking Bad is Instant Death Bullet ever shown or mentioned or does it just not happen?

  • Averted in the finale of Breaking Bad. Walter White is mortally wounded when he takes a single gunshot, but has enough time to kill Jack, tell Lydia she's been poisoned, and say goodbye to Jessenote .

johnnye
07:20:24 PM Oct 10th 2013
edited by 85.210.114.238
There are a few instant death gunshots (or implied to be instant) but usually only when they're up close and/or by trained killers and/or headshots. At least one other major character survives a bullet wound with serious long-term complications. Make of that what you will; I don't understand what makes something count as this trope or not.
TuefelHundenIV
Topic
08:17:59 AM Sep 14th 2013
edited by 208.77.174.14
Various examples that I am not all that sure of what to do with and could use some extra help.
  • In the non-fiction book Gommorah about the Camorra clan wars the journalist author comes across the aftermath of a shooting where a woman was shot in the face as she opened the door. A child talks to him in great detail on why being shot in the face is better than being shot in the chest, as it takes longer to die and is vastly more painful.~
  • The Gun Seller: Averted — the protagonist of Hugh Laurie's novel gets shot while tackling a man and at first thinks that someone shot the person he is tackling.~deathisdramtic only if the guys actually dies, needs checking
  • Averted in S.E. Hinton's novel Tex, in which the title character is shot, but the circumstances have left him in such a state of shock, anguish and adrenaline that he doesn't actually realize it until the following chapter.~Deathisdramatic if he dies
  • The Dresden Files: In Changes Harry is shot in the heart and is still alive for a few seconds after falling into freezing water. It was previously mentioned that this was a good way to kill a wizard since they wouldn't have time to use a death curse. In this case he had time to use a death curse but didn't care enough to and didn't have a target in mind.
    • Plus the fact that Harry orchestrated this himself.

Not sure if we are counting Scifi examples where they tend to use some form of Ray Gun/Laser/Energy weapons rather then a bullet firing gun.

•Averted in Star Wars, as you would not expect. When Jedi are being killed during Order 66, the Clones keep on shooting even after the Jedi are dead and they often keep on moving after the first shot hits them. Aayla Secura's death is the most clear about this. Stormtroopers, battle droids, and other Mooks die in one hit though.~starwars should have plenty of specific uses.

  • Shadows of the Empire averts this, albeit with blaster bolts instead of bullets. When Luke Skywalker is in a room full of Bothan spies working on Death Star data and some bounty hunters come in, one of the Bothans is shot but stays alive and conscious. All of the other Bothans grab the data and run, but Luke, idiot Luke, refuses to leave him - and the Bothan dies just before the bounty hunters capture Luke.

  • Lampshaded in Babylon 5 (though they're talking about a poison, which the seller promised was "almost instantaneous".)
    Londo: "Almost? How long is almost? Long enough for him to stagger back into the court room and shout 'Londo killed me!'?... or maybe just long enough to say Londo killed...urgh!"

  • On Farscape's first season, Gillina is fatally shot by Scorpius, but manages to hang on long enough to be brought up to Moya, where she dies.
    • In "Prayer," the Aeryn/Chiana hybrid is shot in the stomach by (once again) Scorpius; it takes her several minutes for her to finally die.
    • In the Peacekeeper Wars miniseries, Ahkna is fatally shot in the back of the head by Aeryn, and has long enough to be told off by Aeryn before collapsing. In the same scene, D'Argo is fatally wounded as well, but lasts long enough to cover their retreat.

TuefelHundenIV
Topic
04:07:41 PM Sep 10th 2013
Neither of these examples are examples of guns in fiction. The trope is specifically about the often unrealistic portrayl of death by gunshot seen in a lot of fiction works.

The Legolas example would also be the high lethality being from Legolas's extraordinary shooting ability.

The Half Life 2 Entry is about a crossbow firing abnormal ammo. Namely a piece of heated rebar that acts as a generic ranged insta kill weapon.

  • Legolas' arrows in The Lord of the Rings films fit this trope since every shot he takes almost invariably results in the immediate death of whatever he happened to be aiming at.
    • Boromir averts this trope since he was still alive — temporarily — even after taking three arrows to the torso.

  • Half-Life 2 has a crossbow that fires red-hot pieces of rebar. Not only does it kill modified humans with one shot, it has a sniping scope and it often pins bodies to the wall.

TuefelHundenIV
Topic
04:28:19 PM Jun 19th 2013
edited by 216.99.32.44
I am not entirely sure if this a proper example of an aversion.

From the page on use of averted tropes.
Remember — just because a trope does not come into play doesn't make it averted. It is when you would very much expect the trope in a work but despite there being plenty of opportunity for it, it is never used. Many tropes have an inverse of themselves — if the inverse is applicable instead, then it's just a different trope being used.

Here is the example in question. Anyone have a bit more context for this one?

  • Averted in I Did Not Want To Die by Kalash93, with heartbreaking results. The story follows a soldier who is shot near the beginning, and slowly bleeds to death over the course of the story in one hell of a massive tear jerker.

REV6Pilot
05:00:27 AM Oct 24th 2013
Honestly, that's more of a shoehorn than anything. Pretty much none of Kalash93's fanfics feature the trope, so the trope not happening doesn't avert an expected trend.
TuefelHundenIV
Topic
06:10:13 AM May 25th 2013
For Higurashi no Naku Koro ni

  • A horror series with a lot of scary scenes. The murders often have alot of suspense and buildup which strangely makes this trope absolutely terrifying. The best case of this is Minagoroshi-hen where the main cast are talking with the murderer, Takano, and seconds after everyone is dead.

There are already two examples which give the specifics vs this one. The question is how many of them die from an instant death bullet?

The examples divide into manga and anime with clear definitions already.

TuefelHundenIV
Topic
04:15:42 PM May 13th 2013
edited by 216.99.32.45
Ok for the person placing this example can we have a bit more context then a general statement? For example is this from a particle work in a particular setting or game?

As is this too vague to be a proper example and generally not accurate as various video games treat sniper rifles in different ways.

  • The sniper rifle or its equivalent often acts as an instant death weapon provided the player aims for the head. Sometimes aiming for the head isn't even necessary.

TuefelHundenIV
Topic
03:50:44 PM Nov 21st 2012
edited by TuefelHundenIV
Finally. As per this TRS thread The Description has been cleaned up and rewritten in general. The new description will be going up soon.

Next step is to clean up the aversions as per this trs thread. Tropes that need more context or other help will be brought to to the discussion page.
TuefelHundenIV
Topic
06:34:06 AM Oct 27th 2012
edited by TuefelHundenIV
After consulting with a mod, the first TRS and most recent TRS decisions need to be implimented.

The first TRS was to remove the Useful Notes type info and shift it over to a YKTTW page for making a Lethal Wounds Useful Note Page. The definition may need to be tweaked to make more sense after the Useful Notes cruft is removed. After that is done any help on reworking the definition would be appreciated.

The second TRS is to remove all the aversions and general clean up of the page.

Any input, help, or questions can be asked here or pmed.

TuefelHundenIV
Topic
06:27:57 PM Mar 16th 2012
Looking at the trope at large this whole thing likely needs to be rewritten and possibly renamed. I was thinking breaking it into two parts. One part describing instant death wounds when applied to various characters other then mooks and extras. The other would be someone who has received lethal injuries but keeps carrying on. Cut part of the info dump out and clean out anything that doesn't fit in either category.

Thoughts/Opinions.
Hybrid
Topic
11:15:01 PM Mar 29th 2011
edited by Hybrid
Everything is an aversion! Maybe we should cut out all straight examples.
Lots42
Topic
01:44:06 AM Jan 12th 2011
Re: Hitman. No surprise a bullet to the foot puts someone in the hospital. I ended up with surgery after some sort of nasty -scratch- to the leg got infected.
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