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MithrandirOlorin
topic
08:22:30 AM Oct 17th 2012
edited by MithrandirOlorin
There have been cases of real life Satanists performing Human Sacrifices (Some Christian sources do exaggerated the number of provable cases). But it is true it's not a part of any legally recognized Satanic church.

To me the difference between Hollywood Satanism and Real Satanism isn't so much how many actions you can label evil their depicted engaging in, it's the oversimplification of what they believe. They don't simply believe the Bible and side with the Enemy For The Evuls, they simply use Satan as a symbol of Rebellion or as a stand in for a Pre-Christian deity.
MithrandirOlorin
01:51:13 AM Nov 22nd 2012
edited by MithrandirOlorin
Hollywood Satanism is typically either Chaotic Evil or Neutral Evil, but the Satanists in fiction I write might rarely qualify as those, but usually their either Lawful Evil or Chaotic Neutral, or occasionally even Chaotic Good.
MithrandirOlorin
02:10:19 AM Oct 20th 2013
There are allot of Satanic groups other then the 2 or 3 that are legally recognized religions, you can even find their websites online. And minus the Human Sacrifice part they can look surprisingly like "Hollywood Satanism" sometimes.
Tomwithnonumbers
topic
04:35:18 AM Jan 23rd 2011
This page needs a rewrite. Whilst it's true in cases, even the most cursory browsing of the other wiki, shows that there are satanist sects which "includes a belief in magic, which is manipulated through various rituals." (Theistic Satanism)

And evil is tricky, but if you want to dig into that nest mainstream satanic sects believe in "self-indulgence and an eye-for-an-eye" which is viewed as evil by a lot of mainstream religions.

What's more still looking at the Other Wiki, the non-hollywood forms of Satanism are relatively new in creation and in medieval times the hollywood form seems to have been dominant.

Other satanic sects include the "Order of Nine Angles" who promote neo-nazi philosophy, meet in "sinister tribes" as they proclaim and whose leader has been arrested twice for calling for the death of all non aryans. They describe their own path as "The specific path, or 'Left Hand Path', is a dark, sinister one, "

Several other ones base their takings on a book called "Satanism and Witchcraft" which does it exactly what it says on the tin.

So yeah. Whilst this page is correct in that those forms of Satanism exist it implies that Hollywood Satanism doesn't exist despite many historical and present examples. Needs rewriting to reflect that.

Unless we're arguing that magic doesn't work, which devalues several Satanist traditions beliefs
jasonwill2
10:11:42 PM Aug 8th 2011
actually it needs re-written to reflect the opposite. There are no more satanists that have said those things than other religions who have done horrendous things. The Hollywood version didn't ever exist really. there were some far out western occult traditions, but nothing like what you see on tv. I am a satanist myself and know a few other satanists, and in my research all of that was unsupported wives' tales and silliness the catholic church said to scare people into being Christians in the middle ages. If anyone wants a serious rewrite of this, I know some Satanists I can talk to, and it can have in there a list of some of the major sects of Satanism, past and present, to compare to the Hollywood idea of it.

The thing you have to remember is while there are *some* crazy neo-nazis in satanism, there are A LOT more you never hear about that are part of chrisitan white power movements. The reason you don't hear about them is BECUASE of the hollywood satanism trope, which like all "hollywood" tropes, are false.
Zenelithia
02:25:41 AM Oct 3rd 2011
edited by Zenelithia
I too am a Satanist, and I'm agreeing with Jason here. Although rewriting it to be true Satanism would not fit the trope.

No TRUE Satanist is "dark" or "evil," or sacrificing chickens to please some "dark master."

All of that is a load of nonsense made up by the opposing religions to keep them away from us.

Some of our Demons, who were the original gods, are one-in-the same... Isis? Astaroth. Odin? Beelzebub.

Don't claim to know us, when anything you have learned is from our enemies who wish us destroyed.
jasonwill2
05:15:16 AM Oct 9th 2011
er, seems actually what i said was supposed to be meant that a useful notes page should be started.

this page seems to be fine as it is, but the thing about the Order of Nine Angels and such... there is no proof they exist their stuff reads more like fiction than anything else
MangaManiac
10:22:48 AM Nov 27th 2011
I'd approve a Useful Notes page on Satanism, and we have Useful Notes pages on most other religions. Here's a link if you want to make it. Just remember to keep it all objective, especially since I imagine it would be a bit of a hot topic* .

I'd help, but I literally know nothing about Satanism other than Satan is somehow involved in some way. I imagine it's a diverse faith.
DarkPhallus
09:06:41 PM Oct 17th 2012
edited by DarkPhallus
Oxford University Press just published a book entirely on Satanism. You can find it here: http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/ReligionTheology/Mysticism/?view=usa&sf=toc&ci=9780199779246

5 or 6 chapters are about the Church of Satan and Anton La Vey the founder of the Church of Satan and author of The Satanic Bible. The last chapter (12) is entirely dedicated to the Order of Nine Angles.

It is a misconception that the Order of Nine Angles is a structured or hierarchical Order or Organization like the Ordo Templi Orientis is. The ONA has no leader, no priesthood, central administration, no membership application. So there is some half-truth to the notion that ONA does not exist - as an "order." If by "order" we mean an organized sectarian body, with a central administration, or a church, or membership cards, etc. The ONA is a Sinister Tradition, just named the "Order of Nine Angles."

ONA is a Tradition much like Traditional Wicca [British Traditional Witchcraft] have Traditions like the Gardnerian or Alexandrian Tradition. Any person who resonates with the aura and teachings of the "Sinister Tradition" (ONA) can initiate themselves into the Tradition. The kind of Satanism ONA practices is Traditional Satanism, which is a term it coined, but which has now been taken and used by Theistic Satanists.

The ONA Book Naos has the Initiation system of the ONA which is called the Sevenfold Way. The Initiation system of the ONA consists of 7 "degrees" or Grades. It takes about 30 years to get from the first degree of Novice to the 6th degree. The 7th degree is earned at death. The entire Initiation system is Self-Initiatic. No central organization oversees the initiation process. Anyone who initiates themselves thru the Sevenfold Way and lives the Sinister Way of ONA is an initiate of the Order. There is no such thing as "membership." Initiates are called "ONA Associates."

All ONA Associates are independent associates of the ONA. In the same sense that Amway or Marry Kay does not have "employees" (members), but instead they have "Independent Representatives" (which would correspond to an ONA Associate).

Besides independent Initiates, there exists subsidiary groups of ONA called "Nexions." A Nexion aka Temple corresponds to what are called "Covens" in Traditional Witchcraft. Each Coven is autonomous and independent with their own leaders and way of doing things. All they share is the overall ONA Tradition and Mythos. Another type of subgroup of ONA are "Sinister Tribes." These are urban street gangs that do not usually practice or care for the Satanism, but do employ the ONA's Sinister Way on the streets.

Regarding "membership," the founder Anton Long stated way back in 1990:

"To be more explicit - an 'aura' was created around the ONA (quite deliberately) by using certain methods, magickal forms, and by publishing certain material. This aura, existing, becomes transformed - and serves a very useful purpose on the acausal level. (In simple terms and on an elementary level, it provides a certain impetus to seek out and try the 'new' techniques, the 'new' way - on the level of individuals.) Thus, as the new techniques (and hence the new forms deriving from them) become more widely distributed, via books such as Naos, the Deofel Quartet and the Black Book of Satan (these last two due for publication this Winter Solstice) then the methods used hitherto are no longer needed, and are abandoned - they have served their purpose. It is the same with the ONA: once the techniques and the essence are more widely available then 'membership' as such is irrelevant, since everything is available and accessible (and this includes past methods and teachings) - the individual taking responsibility for their own development ultimately rests with individual desire, just as each individual must make their own assessment of what is valuable and what is 'ethical/just' from their own experience, it being the aim of the techniques of the seven-fold sinister way to provide the character-building, evolutionary, experiences. There is no pre-judgement by me or anyone, no set rules." - Anton Long to Dr. Aquino, Satanic Letters of Steven Brown, Oct 7th 1990

For further information on the ONA, there is a University textbook coming out in 2013 with an entire chapter dedicated to the Order of Nine Angles. The university is Al Akhawayan University in Morocco. The Author is Dr. Monette. Dr. Monette gave the ONA the chapter in his book to circulate a year before publication. This chapter can be read here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/89347245/Mysticism-in-the-21st-Century

For anyone looking for writings by the ONA, there is an 8000 page PDF collection of some of the ONA's writings covering a span of 40 years. This collection can be found here: https://archive.org/details/TheBigAssOnaCollection

Their main site can be found here: http://www.o9a.org/

Their main blog can be found here: https://onanxs.wordpress.com/

Another academic paper on ONA can be found here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/84425931/Angular-Momentum

Jasonwill2 is partially correct. The ONA does not exist as an actual organized Order, with IRS papers, leaders, priesthoods, and a membership roll. ONA is a Tradition, which you initiate yourself on your own terms into. For a more in-depth explanation on how ONA is not an Order like the OTO and how you don't "join" it, go here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/82754301/Joining-the-ONA

For a youtube video on ONA watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzb837d-SyI
MithrandirOlorin
12:27:09 PM Jun 13th 2014
Actually even Levey believed in Magick in-spite of his Atheism. His Satanic Bible included three Magick rituals, all of which he could could make things happen.
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