Main Hatedumb Discussion

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01:09:08 AM Sep 9th 2015
edited by Alexsi
So... this trope merely existing seems to be kind of a jerk move on the part of the site. It's basically become this sprawling mass of so many potential sources of dislike that it's not particularly meaningful as a distinct concept, more a mishmash of several different ideas and responses. It seems like the only purpose of this page is for every guy and their dog to link it on the YMMV page of works they like to denounce those who don't share that opinion. I mean, "Hating and insisting on the removal of The Scrappy," is basically the entire reason that trope exists. But now doing that is apparently Hate Dumb behavior?

Showing up and saying stupid or disingenuous stuff to annoy fans is near enough the core of trolling. Actually hating a work for whatever reason and forming a behavior around it is Hatedom. I don't think we need a way to combine, much less EQUATE, the two. The fact that this page is much, much longer than Hatedom and is mostly consumed by a list of reasons why "YOU ARE STUPID AND SHOULD FEEL STUPID" is a little alarming.
01:12:14 AM Sep 10th 2015
Please do not make "the site" responsible for the existence of particular non-tropes, thanks.

This trope is supposed to be exampleless because of these points. That one page is longer than the other means absolutely nothing.
06:53:54 PM May 19th 2015
I wonder which one does this fall, Hate Dumb or Fan Dumb:

The Mad Protector

A breed of the Hate Monger and probably crossed with the Mad Bride/Groom. This fan likes a character, who could be something of The Woobie, or probably not. Then they saw a character doing mean things to their favorite character, with or without remorse. They won't take it, how DARE that character be mean to my favorite, who has been suffering all along! Or how DARE they take a differing opinion that doesn't please our favorite! And cue demonizing or giving those 'meanies' Ron the Death Eater, citing how HORRIBLE and UNLIKABLE they are because they're so mean to their favorites or did horrible things to them. Other justifications will fly past these fans, they are mean to the favorite and thus must be hated and demonized!

Any comments on this?
10:58:50 PM May 19th 2015
Fan Dumb. The triggering event is a character-love thing.
12:58:15 AM May 21st 2015
Thank you, that has been put in Fan Dumb.

There's one more I'd like to discuss, whether it's Fan Dumb or Hate Dumb or it needs to be put on YKTTW:

The Expectation Fanatic

A type of fan/hater that is caused because of seeing expectations he/she has set upon the characters based on his/her own standards. Fulfill the expectations, and the character will be praised like hell, considered the ultimate standard that everyone should follow. Fail to fulfill the expectation, and the character will be bashed like hell and considered stupid and not deserving any fans.

The simplest example is, for instance, a fan that doesn't believe in Gray Morality, and is in support of the White Morality, the good guys. And so, those who are siding with the good guys, regardless of morality scale, will be given good praises and can be given Draco in Leather Pants treatment, even if they're severe Anti-Hero. Likewise, if they side with the bad guys, it doesn't matter if the character has a good and tragic reason for doing so or being a most sympathetic Anti-Villain, that character is considered utterly stupid, undeserving of sympathy and should be bashed to hell and back.

This fan is like putting themselves as the 'parent' of the characters, and expecting they move like the fans will, and those who deviates are unworthy children that deserves no love. They will also show severe case of Fourth Wall Myopia, thus more likely to praise those who is Genre Savvy, while bashing those who are Wrong Genre Savvy.

Tl;dr: "Follow our expectations, or get hated!"

12:36:10 PM Dec 29th 2014
edited by
Do any of these describe the hater (or Broken Base fan) that will complain about things on or about the show that are objectively not true (ie "it's just Alternative Character Interpretation to say this character sucks for doing something they didn't actually do!")? You know, the kind that puts the show itself through the Ron the Death Eater process.
07:40:02 AM Oct 14th 2014
Has anyone else noticed that a certain type of Hate Dumb that loudly proclaims that any competent character is a Mary Sue? It's more common with superhero movies, obviously because the concept of a super hero would lend it's self to the concept. This is a really common complaint about anything relating to Superman. I think I'll call these haters Sueweety Birds.
11:05:59 PM Apr 20th 2014
edited by
I will never forget one extreme case of both Fan Dumb and Hate Dumb I ran into on a Nickelodeon forum. I made one mention about how I'm not a fan of post-Dil Rugrats, and this one Willfully Blind diehard Rugrats fan became both a Crusader and a Fan Hater and embarked on a Holy War to get a show I liked off the air, creating online petitions and derailing discussions on other petitions promoting his own. He derailed every sub-forum on the forum site promoting his "Get rid of Rocket Power!" cause, as well as trolling RP fansites promoting his cause, and he even stated that he was mainly doing it to "teach that Rugrat-hating loser not to say anything bad about Rugrats."
05:17:44 AM Apr 18th 2014
What version of Hate Dumb involves people mentioning how much they hate the show even if it adds absolutely nothing to the discussion or just doesn't belong in the first place?

Because I've seen people say how much they hate Show X even if the discussion is about Show Y. Or if Show X happens to be brought in a discussion, someone will mention how much they hate Show X.
10:44:44 PM Apr 20th 2014
Sounds like a Crusader to me.
10:42:18 AM Sep 15th 2013
edited by
Reading the main article reminded me of the Gravity Falls haters, that despise the show because of its "satanic" symbols, instead of realizing that they are intentionally hidden in plain sight.
12:58:18 AM Sep 8th 2012
edited by MagcargoMan
I'm a bit confused. I just read the strip where the page image is from. Was the Hate Dumb the guy with black hair or the guy with the Fantastic Four shirt?
10:45:49 PM Nov 11th 2012
Here's the strip for anyone who's curious.
02:04:44 PM Apr 3rd 2013
It's both of them.
01:22:23 PM Apr 27th 2013
On the topic: this. so much.
04:07:54 AM May 15th 2012
The Anti-Romantic: The bizarro version of The Mad Bride/Groom, any hint of shipping or romance in the fandom will send them into a frothing rage instead of a squee of fangirl glee. You can see these species endlessly lambasting a fandom upon catching a whiff of fan-made pairings, blaming tween girls and other scapegoats for their departure from fandom/why they refuse to associate with fans. Often just as stupid as rabid shippers themselves. They infest all works, regardless of whether or not the actual work itself has romance or otherwise.

I consider myself to be this (minus the "frothing rage", although my haters will certainly describe me as this) simply because I'm tired of the "everybody should be shipped with everything; to hell with canon and what the author and haters of my kink think" mindset that a lot of shippers have nowadays in fandom, not to mention that they can be downright obnoxious about it. Not that I do shipping myself, but only VERY rarely, and the ships that I do/support are either canon or too unpopular. Should I be called Hate Dumb simply because this is how I honestly feel about the whole thing?
02:46:25 PM Aug 3rd 2012
No, of course not - it's not Hate Dumb if you're sensible about it. And if you don't seem to have a problem with the author adding some Ship Tease (or what the fans claim to be Ship Tease), it doesn't count. You're just Hate Dom, which is like this trope only with common sense.
11:25:01 PM Oct 14th 2012
On the other hand, needless 'omg u fukin shippers YOU GUYS SUCK FOR DOING STUFF WITH CHARACTERS THAT I DO NOT AGREE WITH' shit that goes and on and on and on and on and idiotic demonizing of shippers is Hate Dumb.
03:45:22 PM Dec 15th 2012
I would say that your reaction is perfectly reasonable. While I don't necessarily hate romance, when I come across over a million stories that are all about a certain ship with little plot when I'm looking for a story that seems interesting enough to follow, it really irks me.
02:49:04 PM Dec 4th 2011
There is no entry for They Changed It, Now It Sucks.
07:18:41 PM Dec 4th 2011
And one yourself, though they're also in Fan Dumb.
01:30:04 PM Dec 7th 2011
edited by Trotzky
I had a cursory look at Fan Dumb and saw no reference to They Changed It, Now It Sucks. Therefore TCINIS is proven to be NOT dumb at all; TCINIS is logical, Captain
11:47:17 PM Oct 17th 2011
Surely we should make mention of the Metal fandom's Hate Dumb.
12:01:28 PM Dec 31st 2010
I've seen quite a few people who hate something just because someone they have a personal grudge against (for reasons that have nothing to do with the fandom) happens to be a fan. Is there a word for this?
04:44:56 AM Dec 23rd 2010
Maybe it's just me, maybe it's because I'm seeing that one panel completely out of contrast and know absolutely nothing about the comic it's from, but it seems like a bit of a Strawman Has a Point to me. I mean, I can understand hating a movie but still disagreeing with other people's criticisms of it.
01:25:51 PM Jul 31st 2012
Same. I never liked Teen Titans much, but I still argued with some dude whose main criticism was that the girls didn't have big enough chests.

That's... a dumb reason not to like a cartoon.
03:12:48 AM May 18th 2013
I've actually twice came across someone who vividly hated a mediocre movie with such vitriol that it really surprised me, and then I couldn't find any sense to any of the points they made on why they hated it.

The first time round, I went through point by point and said why I thought each point didn't make sense. I wasn't really angry in but I just couldn't reconcile this person's point of view with my own, and I said so (I didn't have a problem with them hating it, just that I couldn't understand their point of view, especially considering it was referring to RL). By the end, I was so totally confused that I made some stupid comment about the person's age (it was totally idiotic of me, but I thought that the only reason why someone whose view was so skewed from what I understood was that they had very little experience with what they were talking about).

Anyway, I got lambasted for it immediately, and I apologised and learnt my lesson (it was on this site in a review somewhere).

The second time round, I just didn't say anything for fear of saying something stupid again.

My point for telling this story is twofold:

1) I think that if you discuss the reasons why someone doesn't like something, and even that you think they are stupid or nonsensical, then that's fine. If someone is giving their opinion out loud or on the net, they probably want to be heard, and hence discussing their reasons for critiquing or praising something shouldn't be an issue. Just be careful not to draw conclusions about someone from their opinions.

2) Always check that you can edit or delete a comment before you post. Seriously.
02:47:13 PM Dec 1st 2010
As a Superman fan, I bump into all sorts of Hate Dumb. I, myself, fell into it when Superman Returns came out turning me into a crusader, in that I wanted to destroy a sequel's chances of .

Anyway, I've noticed a new kind of Hate Dumb. People who claim to be fans, but carp and complain about everything that a normal hater does claiming that it's creating problems for marketing. We've all heard the lines before, "he's too powerful, so you can't challenge him (false)," "so-and-so is better because he's more relatable (because nobody's ever written Superman as angered or written Clark as a slacker)," and, "how can he fool people with just a pair of glasses (as in, @#$% suspension of disbelief)," but with these @$$holes, they blame a certain section of the character's history (usually the Silver Age) as where it all went to @#$% and maybe either acknowledge or even glorify a point where "it got better," but insist that the movies (or the sequels with the first and maybe second films as possible exceptions) missed the boat and they need to "modernize" the next one. Anyone who disagrees is an old fuddy-duddy. Anyone who doesn't think the character's popularity is that low is living in an ivory castle. And it is a necessity for them to either do a scorched-earth thing or make the films more like this-or-that graphic novel or else he'll be forgotten or hated forever.

I don't imagine this is unique to Superman, so is there a name for this kind of stealth hater?
09:52:59 AM Dec 2nd 2010
If you don't see this brand of Hate Dumb listed on the page, then there probably isn't yet. You Could Always Edit It Yourself. Just try to be a little more objective in writing an actual wiki page description.
01:31:22 PM Aug 18th 2011
Huh, I've been seeing this a lot as well, but in The Elder Scrolls fandom. I think there's actually a subset of Fan Dumb that sounds a lot like this, or maybe overlaps a little, but it's definitely familiar.
09:39:53 PM Nov 9th 2010
edited by Struggs
This page would be actually informative if it wasn't so whiny. I'm not even sure what to cut out, since it's difficult to separate the whining from the meat of the page.
10:35:08 PM Sep 6th 2010
People need to stop calling "Criticism of X" Hate Dumb all the damn time. Baaaaaaaaaaaw! Talk about being butt hurt. You need someone to call the whambulance 'caus someone called something you like crappy?

Obnoxiously common about Bad Webcomics Wiki.
02:06:16 AM Nov 1st 2010
This tends to be quite a problem when it comes to this and Fan Dumb when it comes to Complaining about People Not Liking the Show and Complaining About Shows You Don't Like respectively in This Wiki with people seemingly wanting to add bad tropes to shows they don't like and such. I see one too many pages where Hate Dumb and Fan Dumb exists because "They just are" and heated debates on the matter. I added a Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement footnote on both this and Fan Dumb because of this.
01:03:58 PM Aug 5th 2011
I really wish people would stop abusing this trope. Some people just put "A lot of the hatedom is this" on a main page using the Hate Dumb article with no evidence to prove this statement or even say what category of Hate Dumb it is. Just not liking the show doesn't mean you're a rabid Fan Hater...
02:59:57 PM Aug 3rd 2012
edited by Stoogebie
Yes, this is true. CommandoDude: Right, just the fact that you don't like something (or even having a valid reason not to like it) isn't this trope. For instance, I don't like Justin Bieber because I'm just not into his style of music, and he doesn't really hold my interest. That isn't Hate Dumb. Hating Justin Bieber because he's become a Cash Cow Franchise unto himself and because he's a mainstream artist (or for added racism points, Canadian), then it would be this trope (specifically of the Bandwagon Hater variety).

As for Gundamforce and AgentDragonhunter, people do abuse this trope to refer to "people who hate things that I like, and that's just dumb!" And the reverse trope because you don't like it. That's why We Fight Crime...on This Very Wiki! know, like, editing?
03:33:05 AM May 18th 2013
edited by
I have a question regarding this that kind of fits here.

I do not like Twilight to the point that I would say I hate it. My reasons are that I read it and I hate the writing, lack of characterization etc. However, I don't go around saying that I hate it unless it is a major thread point or the discussion of a vlog - and even then I might ramble for a few paragraphs (I have issues when it comes to rambling) and discuss things with a few other people, but I don't spend very long on it before moving on (i.e. I wouldn't consider myself 'obsessed' by any means). And although all that 'Twilight' hype previously did annoy the hell out of me just because I was constantly exposed to it, I'm fine with other people liking it and bear them no ill will, and I would never go to a site devoted to Twilight fans and say anything to rile them up. I do think poorly of Stephanie Meyer for some of the underlying messages in her works - particularly to such young teenage girls, which strikes me as undoubtedly irresponsible - and I think she is a terrible writer, but I don't really bear her any ill will either (just wish she would take a course in creative writing and issue a public apology *ahem*).

This is the only thing I really 'hate', so that has me wondering: do I count as Hate Dumb?

I was looking down the list on the main page and I just had no idea if I should count myself in any of those categories? I know what people abusing the words "Fan Dumb" and "Hate Dumb" looks like, but I don't know if I could fairly be called part of Twilight's Hate Dumb?

Any help on this would be very appreciated!
09:41:57 AM Aug 29th 2010
edited by movie007
Hate Dumb = Fan Dumb Counterparts:

A few, for starters:

Foe Yay Fan = very similar to Vocal Loyalist - without the "claiming to like the show" part, but every bit as neurotic

Bandwagon Hater = Hipster Fan

Hate Monger = Mad Bride/Groom

Purist = Purist

Willfully Blind = Willfully Blind

Judge = Elitist

01:16:49 PM Jun 28th 2010
Re: cut:

Okay, so the basics of this trope can be found on five or six other sites. Still, having it as a clear taxonomy all in one place has an appeal.

Maybe we can move this to Just for Fun or the Darth Wiki, and make sure no specific examples get added. It's too beautiful as it is for it to be simply cut.
05:21:42 AM Jun 29th 2010
In general terms, it really just needs a cleanup to take out some of the underlying bitterness. Fan-Dumb's gotten pretty good at that, refraining from personal attacks and stuff, so I think Hate Dumb needs to follow suit. Also, some of the types are basically the same thing, phrased differently.
03:23:59 PM Jul 3rd 2010
edited by movie007
Since Anne Titlement is a kind of Fan Hater, it should probably be placed as a sub-group under Fan Haters.
09:55:22 AM Apr 30th 2010
I'm just wondering if it would be Flame Bait to post this:
  • The bulk of people who complain about the epilogue to the final Harry Potter book are really only upset because it invalidates their favourite ships. People who didn't ship any couples at all, or who only shipped couples who turned out canon, generally had no problem with it.
07:47:49 PM Jun 20th 2010
08:06:31 PM Jun 20th 2010
That is way too opinionated for its own good.
12:27:12 PM Jun 28th 2010
Oh yeah, I forgot fan haters. Fan Haters covers most of these attitudes in addition to fan dumb, hatedom, most topic on the It Sucks index and unpleasable fanbase.
01:54:10 AM Dec 12th 2011
I don't ship any couples, and I didn't like the epilogue.
02:50:04 PM Aug 3rd 2012
First Poster: Don't risk it. It's like saying "most X is Y because of Z Hate Dumb", which a lot of X (even if they don't happen to be the 'most' part) still find insulting. Or even if they don't like Y, like KahranZero42 said, it might not be for the reason you stated. Even if there is truth to's best not to chance whether it's Flame Bait.
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