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angelthread1w9
topic
12:37:28 PM Jun 27th 2014
Since their listed in both sections of this and Black and Grey, I think the works like Death Note, Dexter, and Assassin's Creed should be deleted.

Even Serial Killer Killers that are supposedly Anti-Villains should be considered Black even if their supposedly A Lighter Shade of Black.

Killing is still killing, and I wouldn't really that to be grey or neutral.
MagBas
03:53:46 PM Jun 27th 2014
This is the first paragraph of Grey and Grey Morality:"In an all-grey conflict, neither side is totally good or completely evil. Both sides have a strong, justifiable reason for fighting, and contain a mixture of people of all kinds, from admirable, upstanding individuals to vicious, slimy scumbags."
poi99
topic
11:28:25 AM Dec 28th 2013
"The film version of Let the Right One In - the two main characters are a murderous vampire and a kid who has strong and violent revenge fantasies. None of the other characters are more sympathetic than they are."

Deleting this. LTROI's characters are too morally diverse to categorize the story as a whole in any of the "X and Y Morality" tropes; for example, one of the central characters is a cop with no visible negative qualities, and then we've got a bully who has no redeeming qualities and even tries to gouge another boy's eye out.

Also, while having violent revenge fantasies is certainly dark, morality is about actions. The things a character fantasizes about don't really define where he falls morally.
EmmaWoodhouse18
topic
03:55:01 PM Dec 21st 2012
There are way too many people confusing this trope with Anti-Hero and Anti-Villain, and basically adding anything where the heroes aren't unambiguously good and the villains have some redeeming qualities, even if the good guys are still way more sympathetic and the bad guys clearly wrong.

I don't think we need to clarify this - not sure how the description could be MORE clear on what the trope actually means - but the page could use a good examples scrub for things that don't fit the trope.
Zomric
11:40:05 PM Jan 1st 2013
edited by Zomric
Quite. I mean how in heck does His Dark Materials qualify? The fact that that the entry raises the question of an ultimate evil ,even if it has multiple contenders, should be a sign that it doesn't belong in this trope.
elmobn
01:11:12 PM Apr 5th 2013
I can't agree with this enough. A large number of these listings seem more like "slightly obfuscated Black and White Morality". This page needs a huge scrub.
Craver357
topic
08:43:23 PM Nov 16th 2012
Why do tropes concerned with morality gets added to the list of No Real Life Examples, Please!?
elmobn
01:11:30 PM Apr 5th 2013
edited by elmobn
We don't want to piss anyone off or start edit wars.
angelthread1w9
12:35:03 PM Jun 27th 2014
Well, morality is considered rather subjective, isn't it? Even if some things should be clearly defined as beneficial or harmful, such as a doctor saving people's lives, a teacher giving students education, or a serial killer taking away people's lives.

Any good person could have ulterior motives outside their job though such as only doing it for the money and a serial killer could be doing it out of revenge against asshole victims that have wronged him/her.

Therefor, there isn't necessarily a case of this, although I have oddly seen it on the World War pages...

World War I was Grey and Gray Morality like this and World War II was Black and Gray Morality. Hmm...
tracer
topic
10:53:09 PM Jul 8th 2012
Is there a significance to the two different spellings ("grey" vs. "gray") in the trope name?
Telcontar
moderator
12:50:16 AM Jul 9th 2012
edited by Telcontar
I guess it indicates that there can be different shades of gray, though the only real difference between the words is American vs British. Some people (e.g. Madeline L'Engle), though, see "grey" as more silvery and "gray" as more sooty.
KSonik
topic
09:49:47 AM Dec 22nd 2010
Just to mention Lawful Evil isn't itself greyness anymore than Chaotic Evil is but a character of either alignment can be grey despite being by Dn D definition Evil.
Tarnizial
topic
02:37:38 PM Apr 26th 2010
Who says the gnomes are chaotic? In lore they spend hours and hours going overbudget as a matter of course getting their inventions to work, as opposed to the goblins who... well... don't really care about user safety.
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