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FoolsEditAccount
topic
03:10:25 AM Jun 20th 2011
edited by FoolsEditAccount
Did you people completely ignore my edit?

"Grammar Nazi" is a very offensive term with a specific meaning. It does not just mean "someone who cares about grammar", it means a snobbish and pretentious person who does nothing but snark about grammar and lords it over people for their own ego. The description for the trope also says that these members contribute nothing of real value, and only care about grammar. Saying that all members of Fig Hunter are like that is extremely offensive, and I would appreciate if people didn't fling around loaded terms if they don't know what they mean.
TTopHat
07:44:58 AM Jun 20th 2011
First off, I'd like to know your Fig Hunter username so I can yell at you there. For the most part, this does apply to most active members, and by active, I mean 'Goes into the chat frequently, as well as the forums'. As well, this does fit the website as a whole, as proper spelling and grammar is explicitly said to be a major rule, and not using it will get you low rated quite quickly. Moreover, Grammar Nazi is not offensive, unless you can point out a trope than represents our love of proper language and is less 'offensive'. Also, we are pretty pretentious.

I personally won't put it back up until you offer a counter argument, out of respect, but if you want it to stay down, you'd better have a good comeback!
FoolsEditAccount
08:22:34 AM Jun 20th 2011
edited by FoolsEditAccount
I don't have a Fig Hunter account, but I do frequent the site.

Have you actually read the Grammar Nazi page? "They don't actually add any new content except possibly passive-aggressive 'help' articles on proper usage of the semicolon." At the end, there are also potholes to Super OCD and Utopia Justifies the Means. That is not how Fig Hunter members act at all. And even regardless on that page, it is often flung around on the internet as an insult.

And no, there is not a trope that represents love of proper language, because such a thing would be People Sit on Chairs. You can mention the heavy focus on proper grammar in the main description, but please don't call people Grammar Nazis, because by doing so you are not validating their love of proper communication and grammar, you are trivializing it and saying they shouldn't do so.
TTopHat
08:43:43 AM Jun 20th 2011
If you don't have a Fig Hunter account, then you aren't really a part of the community, and you can't really say what we are or are not.. You really have no reason to say that we aren't. I'm putting the Trope back on the page. If you want to argue any further about this, then MAKE a Fig Hunter account, and argue with me in the chat.
FoolsEditAccount
08:55:16 AM Jun 20th 2011
edited by FoolsEditAccount
Actually, I used to have a Fig Hunter account, but my paranoid sister prevented me from using it, so I am physically unable to accept your request.

Why are you getting so worked up about this anyway? Please calm down, I'm just trying to defend the community. I didn't realize that was such a heinous crime. I doubt an individual can speak for the entire community, anyway. Talk to your friends on Fig Hunter and tell them to join the argument so we can get a more accurate opinion.

Edit: Oh, Aiur, you were the one who added Grammar Nazi back? If you didn't see my previous edit, I apologize for my irritated response, I thought someone passive-aggressively added it back after ignoring my edit reason for removing it.
TTopHat
09:28:01 AM Jun 20th 2011
First off, I am talking to the Fig Hunter community. Most of them don't really care. I'm not saying that we're a bunch of pretentious jerks who only care about grammar, but, considering that anyone who does not use proper grammar, spelling and punctuation is quite quickly rated down to Yellow (Poor), it seems that it does in fact point to this. Aside from that, there IS a description of this instance of the trope on the page, which clearly says exactly what is meant by Grammar Nazi, primarily being "Chatspeak and l33t will probably get you banned".
FoolsEditAccount
09:34:00 AM Jun 20th 2011
edited by FoolsEditAccount
That phrase is actually rather misleading. You aren't banned immediately just for chatspeak, you're frowned upon and given a chance to change your ways. If everyone was a Grammar Nazi, they would be giving chatspeakers reds instead of yellows and Pseudo would be banning chatspeakers left and right.

"I'm not saying that we're a bunch of pretentious jerks who only care about grammar"

By insisting on referring to the community by this offensive phrase, you literally are, actually.
SavageWolf
09:35:41 AM Jun 20th 2011
Yo!

I'm probably one of the people who you can make a case against, or something. I do not think of my self as a Grammar Nazi, if someone has the capability of using proper grammar, they should, to make things more understandable and neater. Putting capitals and full stops makes it look neater, at the drawback of, what? Half a second?

I don't fuss if people use "your" wrong, or spell some of the longer words wrong. I myself can't spell a lot of words... Hell, I don't even know what a semicolon does. And if they can't use grammar, as long as their post is legible and they make an effort, it's fine.
TTopHat
09:41:13 AM Jun 20th 2011
Ok, now it's over. I've moved it to the YMMV tab, which SHOULD satisfy everyone, considering that's what the YMMV tab is for in the first place.
FoolsEditAccount
09:59:09 AM Jun 20th 2011
edited by FoolsEditAccount
No, it doesn't, because it's an objective trope. Don't hide behind "well, it's just my opinion" and use that deflect all arguments, it's childish. And no, the YMMV tab isn't for putting things that people refuse to discuss in either. It's for subjective tropes only.

Though your rewording of the example was better, it doesn't fit the trope anymore, so it's pointless.

*sigh* This has really spiraled out of control, so maybe we should just put it on the main page and say "averted" or "people may think the community is this, but it actually isn't"?
TTopHat
10:11:31 AM Jun 20th 2011
"The article might call for a value judgement and your judgement call could be different from another troper's".

That is what YMMV is for. I and several other people agree that the trope should exist, you and Savage disagree. Savage is the one who put the new description of it in YMMV anyway.

More importantly, if we're arguing over it like this, it clearly is subjective. I'm trying to make a compromise here, and you're not making it easy. Besides that, we're not just saying "FIGHUNTER IS FULL OF GRAMMAR NAZIS!" We're quite clearly saying what we mean, in a way that is quite accurate, and not offensive.

I'm adding it back to YMMV. You disagree. You're then going to remove it again. The point of YMMV is for Tropes that not everyone agrees with. Some of us do though, and that's why it's in YMMV. Compromise, FEA.
FoolsEditAccount
10:16:43 AM Jun 20th 2011
edited by FoolsEditAccount
Ignoring my argument for the first two posts and then screaming at me about how DARE I try to speak for the community when I'm not one of the Enlightened Few and that I need to take my argument to the forums for it to see any validation is not 'compromise', and isn't really helping your image either. Neither is then backpedaling about how you're not saying that Fig Hunter is full of people who fit the objective definition of Grammar Nazis but that we should be labelled that anyway.

And while that may be the definition of YMMV, when to use it is actually quite objective. There are certain tropes that are labelled as "subjective", and only those get put on the tab. Besides, putting your own opinion there and then telling people they can't mess with it because it's just your opinion is not compromise either.

I have gone with my proposal for now and added a revised version on the main page saying that the trope is subverted. If you think it needs tweaking, you can comment on that.
TTopHat
10:18:43 AM Jun 20th 2011
I'll settle for that. And I wasn't ignoring your posts. I've already taken it off the YMMV tab again, so can we please stop this now?
FoolsEditAccount
10:20:00 AM Jun 20th 2011
Yes, I'm glad we finally reached a resolution.
FragmenteDreams
12:47:23 PM Jun 20th 2011
Dayumm. Talk 'bout tension.
FoolsEditAccount
01:46:12 PM Jun 20th 2011
Yes, I'm sorry we cluttered up the page like that, but it's important to maintain global definitions of terms, especially since this can potentially draw in new members. If they think we're straight Grammar Nazis, that could cause many to be off-put, but more will likely be attracted if the page is more accurate about what Fig Hunter is like.
BentusiAvatar
07:05:32 PM Jul 3rd 2011
edited by BentusiAvatar
Ah. Yes. I know what Fools Edit Account means, yeah... he's right, the way this site uses Grammar Nazi as a term is different from ours, slightly. Matter of fact, I think I may put in something to that effect.

EDIT: I'm Aiur, by the way. Just use a different name here.
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