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CosmosAndChaos
topic
03:30:17 AM Jun 29th 2014
In my fiction, the female heroes treat Female Misogynists with the same level of hostility as they do with their male counterparts. Cause they believe in ACTUAL gender equality. In their head, thinking Female Misogynists need help instead of hate is not equality.
FranceandEngland
topic
10:41:20 AM Sep 29th 2012
Anyone else find this trope hot?
Stoogebie
07:03:14 PM Nov 26th 2013
Um...how?
EmmaWoodhouse18
topic
11:31:41 PM Jul 11th 2012
Would adding the nonfiction book Female Chauvinist Pigs by Ariel Levy as an example (in the very title) fall into violating the No Real Life Examples, Please! policy? It would be discussing how she invokes the trope in the title and her arguments, not necessarily suggesting that the arguments are correct or not.
Dauq
topic
05:09:42 AM Oct 17th 2011
This page needs cleaned up badly.

More than half of the examples for this trope are in the Real Life section. Considering that's presented as an unambiguously bad thing and most of them are living people rather than historical figures, some not even particularly public ones i think that's pretty inappropriate.

EnchantedWild
08:44:49 AM Nov 11th 2011
This tends to be more of a sociological/political trope than something that is often consciously used as characterization in fiction, so it seems like it would be more common in real life.

Since nearly all of the examples cited involve public media figures, many of whom largely built their careers on making strange/inflammatory statements that are sexist against their own gender, they seem like appropriate examples. Also, I disagree with IRL examples having to be historical - for one, that would be difficult with this trope because women weren't even granted the right to speak in the public eye until feminism gave them the opportunity to have careers where they could be hypocritical anti-feminists if they so choose.

Feel free to actually list which ones you don't think belong here and the reasons why.

MercuryInRetrograde
08:07:17 PM Nov 11th 2011
The RL section for the strawfeminist trope got axed because, and I quote, 'people irl are not crafted for a specific purpose.'

The RL section on this trope needs to go for exactly the same reason.

"Also, I disagree with IRL examples having to be historical - for one, that would be difficult with this trope because women weren't even granted the right to speak in the public eye until feminism gave them the opportunity to have careers where they could be hypocritical anti-feminists if they so choose."

Women have worked and had opinions from the dawn of time.
genkracken
11:09:39 PM Nov 30th 2011
Perhaps just drop the "Real Life" section — there are enough examples as an actual trope (i.e. in other categories) not to need anything besides, "In real life, this is called internalized sexism."
MercuryInRetrograde
topic
12:44:24 PM Jul 19th 2011
EnchantedWild
09:17:10 AM Sep 18th 2011
edited by EnchantedWild
Ok, hopefully this helps clarify a few things about the "Ladies Aganist Feminism" entry:

There is a huge difference between not actively identifying as feminist or having qualms with the way the feminist movement does things, and advocating the control/limitation of women for political or religious reasons. LAF is the latter.

Obviously, not everyone who has a problem with the term "feminist" automatically wants all women back in the kitchen. But let's not kid ourselves - most people who actively identify as ANTI-feminist usually have seriously problematic beliefs about women and women's rights.

LAF's understanding of feminism is essentially that women have too much freedom and too many rights, which they are not meant to possess because they were created primarily for servitude and are defined by their relationships (motherhood, marriage, etc) rather than as individuals. Ergo feminism (read: women being in charge of their own lives) is bad for society and an affront to what they percieve as the natural order of things.

Also, in case this wasn't patently obvious, LAF is an organization that advocates the precepts of "Christian Patriarchy", a fundamentalist religious movement focused on "traditional family values" as they narrowly define it. A quick Google search on the topic will find you mountains of testimonies from survivors about the deeply misogynistic and destructive effects of their cult-like teachings. Throughout a woman's life, she absolutely must be under the control of a man, and women are treated as though they're incapable of being autonomous adults. In extreme cases, rape/incest is not unheard of, even widespread (the logical end of treating women as property). Here's a good summary from an insider.

I believe all of them are victims in some way and perhaps some don't know any better, especially since these women have been indoctrinated (sometimes since birth) into believing they are inferior and as a result suffer crippling paranoia over God's supposed wrath should they question it. But more insidiously, they have take that self-hatred and are projecting it onto other women - in my book that makes them de facto misogynists. They have an awful lot of contempt and judgment for women who don't conform to their rigid standard, bigotry towards non-religious women, and there is plenty of victim-blaming/rape apologia littering the site.

doomsday524
01:22:58 PM Mar 13th 2012
Spare me. Your accusation of them being female mysogonysts for daring to be opposed to feminism fits into Real Women Never Wear Dresses instead.
Scarab
04:52:02 AM Jul 21st 2013
Setting aside my personal feelings, I have to agree that I'm not sure Ladies Against Feminism fits in this trope, not least because it's a Real Life example, and this strikes me as a No Real Life examples please sort of trope, lest all hell break loose *thoughts, everyone?) But to all intents and purposes, what Ladies Against Feminism does is advocate female stereotypes, which seems to fit the laconic of this trope: "A female character who believes women should Stay in the Kitchen. Can be The Lad-ette or a Heteronormative Crusader"... I presume they fit in Heteronormative Crusader better, though.

I mean, in fairness we are talking about a group in which one of their advocates once implied that Rapunzel sent a terrible message to women because she dared to run away from an abusive household where she was imprisoned by someone who kidnapped her at birth.
MercuryInRetrograde
topic
10:22:10 AM May 22nd 2011
Where do women who think 'women are weaker then men and that's why men should serve them' fit in this?
agentk
01:58:51 PM Jun 8th 2011
That sounds more like a subtrope/inversion of chivalry or "stay in the kitchen" type tropes than outright female misogyny. It's a sexist attitude, yes, and sometimes they intersect - but it's possible for a woman to accept rigid gender roles without hating other women or hating being a woman. Thinking women are the "weaker sex" isn't necessarily the same as believing women are generally bad/stupid/evil/inferior what have you.
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