Main Faction Calculus Discussion

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09:20:56 PM Dec 25th 2016
edited by DrakeClawfang
I find the opening for this page rather confusing and badly written. Descriptions for the different factions change between the different types of balance but usually just to describe how the new faction is different. The page also makes constant comparisons to real life governments and organizations, which mean nothing — presuming the comparisons are being made because of how many games organize the faction types, the examples list will cover this fine. Stating these comparisons in the intro without context is just going to make a reader wonder what all these governments and races mean to defining the trope and factions. The various faction types can be described without having to draw these comparisons, and a reader can read them and draw their own parallels to games they've played to understand what is being said.

I made a sandbox showing a much simplified version of this layout, giving the faction profiles directly with much less reading and unnecessary comparisons to governments or fantasy factions.
04:23:15 PM Aug 28th 2015
How about tabletop games factions such as in Warhammer, Warmachine, Infinity etc
08:29:22 PM Aug 28th 2015
Eh, go for it.
12:16:11 PM Jul 20th 2015
So just recently, I've added the opposing factions from the Witcher books and video games, including the Nilfgaardian Empire (Powerhouse), the Northern Kingdoms (Balanced), the Scoia'tael (Cannon), and the monsters/Wild Hunt (Subversive). It's just that I thought that they should be added as examples, considering that the Witcher series is all about war and politics, despite its title referring to a simple-yet-mutated monster hunter named Geralt of Rivia.

That, and I found the factions far more interesting than Geralt. Geralt is just one man compared to all of those opposing factions that their respective members.
09:56:53 PM Mar 26th 2014
edited by
Truth in Television. Add or not?

NATO (Powerhouse/Elitist) vs. Warsaw Pact/USSR (Horde/Cannons).

Compare the M1 Abrams or Leopard II to the T80, it's clear that the NATO tanks are far more powerful, but at the same time more expensive. At the same time, Warsaw pact tactics focused on invading the West while NATO ones focused on defending Europe from the inevitable invasion.

Britain (Powerhouse) vs. America (Subversive)

The better-trained and better-armed British vs. the Pragmatic Americans who relied on knowing the lay of the land.

Nazi Germany (Elitist) Imperial Japan (Cannons) USSR (Horde) USA (Balanced/Economic) France (Subversive) Britain (Turtle) Italy and China (Pariah)

The Nazis had powerful tanks and better-trained infantry but lacked numbers, the Japanese did well on the firepower front, as well as speed, but never really got much armor on anything not named the Yamato, the USSR just had the most people other than China, whose sheer lack of armor-defeating weapons make it the Pariah, Italy was also rather Pariahish, America had the economic edge with it's massive Industry and overall good, reliable everything, Britain mostly relied on sitting behind Radar, France, being Partisans, were subversive by nature).

UN forces (Elitist) vs. China and North Korea (Spammer)

No matter how much you say human waves didn't happen, it was still a largely infantry army with minimal armor or air support relying on it's population against an elite force with offshore artillery, air support, and tanks but lacking in numbers in comparison.

08:27:11 PM Aug 28th 2015
kind of seems like a No Real Life Examples, Please! thing. Also unlike most in universe "factions" really complicated.
11:10:46 AM Jan 29th 2014
I find it funny that they consider the Scrin under "balanced". That's really not what half the multiplayer audience thinks. Half the matchmaking rooms are filled with "2v2 NO SCRIN"

09:26:41 PM Mar 26th 2014
Sadly true.
11:21:18 AM Jul 2nd 2013
Why are there so many examples where people don't specify which faction is each type? If you don't explain, than your example is meaningless.
06:04:37 AM Oct 6th 2012
edited by BlackTalons
This is from the three factions entry:

Command & Conquer: Red Alert 3: Allies (Balanced), Soviets (Subversives), and Empire of the Rising Sun (Powerhouse)

I was about to change it to Soviets (Powerhouse), Empire of the Rising Sun (Subversive) as it struck me as far more obvious that the other version but then I thought I may be looking at it wrong. Is anyone against this?
09:28:40 PM Mar 26th 2014
I think the person adding that played mostly naval campaigns, where it was true.

But yeah, who thought the Rising sun was the balanced compared to the Allies? I'd like to see them try their "King Oni Rush" on my Futuretanks.

Basically, X$ of Apocalypses will beat the them amount of Futuretanks will beat the same amount of King Onis.
09:04:47 AM Dec 16th 2010
edited by
Proginoskes: It's important to note that the Faction Calculus analysis of Magic: the Gathering is completely screwed when you expand your scope from Creatures to spells in general.
  • Red does direct damage, strength at the cost of durability, and Explosive Overclocking: very much Cannon-like.
  • Blue, aside from having the most inherently-elusive creatures, specialises in removing and barring opposition from the field and manipulating the terrain to make its creatures even more elusive, like a Subversive faction.
  • Green does have the most high-power, high-toughness, high-cost creatures, but it also has the most of best tools for Horde-making, and pretty much the only tools to surprise your opponent by turning your Horde of vanilla 1/1's into a Horde of 6/6 tramplers.
  • White remains fairly Hordelike, but is more defense-oriented than any other example on the page, frequently wanders into Powerhouse territory, and is the king of alt-win besides. Verdict: Balanced.
  • Black's creatures tend to be weak, yes, and have specialised abilities, yes, but those abilities and Black's other spells tend to focus on (a) bringing stuff back from the dead, (b) killing the other army with very little effort [deathtouch] and/or deader than dead, or (c) permanently weakening opposition, all of which promote Horde tactics.
06:28:07 AM Jul 28th 2010
Doesn't the entire Aliens Vs Predator setting fit into this?
01:55:27 PM Jan 15th 2013
I would think that any scifi, fantasy, or action adventure setting could apply to this actually. You could even set up individual characters along the same definitions.

Look at DC's JLA for instance: Superman is elitist, Batman guerrilla, Flash ranger, Aquaman unit specialist, Green Lantern technical and Wonder Woman is, like Superman, an elitist. Martian Manhunter is basicly an elitist with leanings towards technical and guerrilla, probably in that order.
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