Main Even Evilhas Standards Discussion

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03:08:02 PM Sep 17th 2015
Seeing the topic about "Even I wouldn't do that" being a suitable title for real-life examples, I am officially proposing that this trope be renamed to "Even I Wouldn't Do That".
12:40:52 AM Sep 18th 2015
We are not using a line of dialogue title, please.
08:41:21 PM Feb 5th 2015
Thought you guys might like this.

"ISIS is perhaps the cruelest, most barbaric group on earth today. It does many things that are far worse than denying vaccines to children. But that makes it all the more striking that even ISIS sees the value of immunizing children against contagious diseases."

They practically invoke the trope by name.
09:01:50 PM Feb 10th 2014
edited by
As weird as it may sound, I think Hitler himself counts as this. For all that he's gone down in history as one of the most evil human beings of all time, he almost died of mustard gas when he was a soldier in WWI, and thus he refused to allow his soldiers to use chemical weapons on the battle field during WWII.
01:07:51 AM Feb 11th 2014
That is likely true, but let's keep in mind that No Real Life Examples, Please! applies here.
02:55:58 PM Sep 3rd 2013
Another Real Life Example: Mid 2013, leaders of the NAACP and the KKK actually meet up because both parties acknowledge that just protesting isn't going to get much done in this case. Jimmy Simmons, the president of the NAACP, and John Abar, a KKK organizer, were present. While the KKK leaders openly admitted that they were against interracial marriage and wanted to secede from the Union, they condemned the violent attacks against African Americans that had been occurring in the area. John wound up signing up to join the NAACP by the end of the meeting.

Before this event, the KKK wound up condemning the Westboro Baptist Church's plans on protesting the funerals for the victims of the Newtown school shooting.

It seems that the modern KKK, while far from perfect (and even that is putting it mildly) has come a long way from it's openly violent past self.
07:19:25 PM Nov 15th 2015
In 1961, the Nation of Islam invited George Lincoln Rockwell, the leader of the American Nazi Party, to their national convention, at which Rockwell was even invited to speak. The upshot was that, despite other differences of opinion, both groups were united by a common interest in forming racially separate nations.
01:23:50 AM Aug 21st 2012
Is it just me or does Real Life examples should go to Pet the Dog instead?
09:25:21 PM Jul 26th 2012
That Image is completely out of The Joker's character, The Joker is the last villain to have standards.
07:57:20 AM Jul 27th 2012
No, he really isn't. His standards are just usually skewed.
07:02:45 AM Mar 20th 2013
The image is explained under Comic Books. Suffice to say it's an instance of Depending on the Writer: that version of the Joker was somewhat less malevolent than, say, the Nolanverse version.
09:47:54 AM Mar 11th 2012
One particular Real Life example might be permissible: the fact that child molesters and child killers don't do well in prison, both in fiction and real life.
09:45:53 AM Jun 3rd 2012
Agreed also why is How can cartman be on this AND complete monster thats An oxymoron
07:13:04 PM Jul 1st 2012
edited by StarSword
Never mind. I put that in under the new "General" heading.

@bigJoe: Complete Monster and Even Evil Has Standards aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. EEHS just means that the villain has something he won't stoop to. It doesn't make him any less of a villain.
10:18:42 PM Sep 26th 2011
edited by BigglesTh9
No real-life examples? Really? Calling real people evil couldn't be too problematic of itself: we have real-life examples for Affably Evil. And there are good real-life examples to illustrate this trope, such as prison inmates frequently being aghast at child molesters.
07:18:55 AM Sep 27th 2011
The problem with real life examples here is it will lead to people arguing about what causes/political stances are "more" evil than others. It's an edit/flame war waiting to happen.
08:16:00 AM Jun 11th 2012
What about dead people? They aren't "Real Life" anymore...are they?
02:49:33 AM Feb 15th 2013
The issue is that it doesn't really matter what's "more" evil.
06:15:20 AM Feb 22nd 2013
Bummer. I found a good one at where the freaking Klan protested the Westboro Baptist Church. Or is there an irony trope this should go under?
06:41:59 PM Sep 20th 2013
edited by
Well Fred Phelps did support the Civil Rights Movement in the '60s, and protested the KKK in the past, so that might have something to do with it.
03:30:49 PM Sep 23rd 2011
So...why was the Real-Life Examples removed?
09:23:16 AM Sep 4th 2011
07:09:43 PM Jul 1st 2012
Maybe put that under Web Original?
02:48:28 PM Aug 6th 2011
If this page was renamed into "Even I Won't Do That" or something which removed "evil" from the title, would real life examples be acceptable?
09:46:36 AM Jun 3rd 2012
I think so
10:50:17 AM Feb 21st 2011
This page is being split due to length. It has reached a size where it is in danger of causing server performance issues. See this thread for details.

To alleviate this, I split off the current content along the lines of the current folder structure. New examples should be placed in the appropriate media sub-pages.
08:24:22 AM Dec 12th 2010
Should this page be divided up into sub-pages?
04:29:09 AM Oct 21st 2010
On various Invert examples, which point out how evil character is Complete Monster. I think they are really Avert examples (avoid the trope), the inversion should be something like Utopia Justifies the Means or Well-Intentioned Extremist (Good has no Standard)
09:23:37 PM Oct 22nd 2010
No objection? Then I will remove them later.
12:59:59 AM Oct 25th 2010
edited by Kuruni
Ahh, my bad. Turn out that there is just one bad example calling Evil Person Act Evil an inversion.
09:00:37 AM Sep 14th 2010
Not sure if to add this: "Even evil has standards" was parodied in the Star Trek DS 9 episode "Body Parts". Brunt (FCA) rails against Quark for giving honest Ferengi businessmen a bad name, because he does things like: gives customers credit, only takes a 30% kickback from employees tips, sold food and medicine to Bajoran refugees "AT COST!" (well, just above cost), and gave his employees vacations. As Brunt puts it "You DISGUST me!!"

05:23:59 PM Oct 11th 2010
02:50:43 AM Feb 15th 2013
That sounds more of a Minion with an F in Evil.
04:59:37 PM Jul 13th 2010
edited by ThinksTooMuch
Removed a couple of examples, which I'm preserving here in case anyone wants to argue the point. Namely:

The Zuko example, because using Zuko as an example for a trope about evil is like using a Chihuahua as an example in the Big, Badass Wolf trope.

  • Frequently appears with Zuko of Avatar the Last Airbender, to one extreme case where he, a firebender, tries to free an Earth Kindgom village from a group of thuggish Earth Kingdom soldiers.
    • At the time he wasn't bound to the Fire Nation, he was outcast, and was attempting to payback the kindness a family gave him by giving him a place to rest.
    • At the beginning of "Zuko Alone," Zuko, traveling through the desert by himself, comes across a small campsite. Starving, he rests his hand on his sword in preparation to attack, but he sees that a man is cooking food for a pregnant woman and decides to leave them in peace.

The Nazi-related examples due to a combination of Godwin's Law and the Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement. The length of the following makes me feel a bit justified.

  • The Nazi Germany had the most advanced and humane animal protection laws in Europe and they were the forerunners of the Environmentalist movement.
    • Not entirely accurate. There are strong indications that the real purpose behind these laws was in part as an excuse to persecute Jewish scientists and butchers early in the Nazi regime. While it's true these laws were on the books, many modern people opposed to environmentalism point out this connection and completely ignore the whole story. Another thing of note is that some theorize that at least part of the impetus behind these decisions was to emphasize the Nazi party at harmony with nature. That might sound odd initially; but if you think about how like species tend to congregate with each other, and remember the Nazi views on race, it becomes a lot clearer; and a lot nastier. To top this off, several environmentalist organizations that pre-dated the Nazi rise to power were disbanded after said rise to power. - If you want a real predecessor to the modern environmental movement you need to look to a certain Bad Ass Moustache US President - none other than Teddy Roosevelt.
      • In all due honesty, while they were not the predecessors of most modern environmentalist groups, attempts to ignore or explain away any connection whatsoever between the NSDAP and sincere environmentalism as we would understand it (to a degree) simply does not jive with the facts. More specifically, it ONLY really works if one factors out the fact that large segments of the Nazi chain of command were very, VERY open and by all accounts genuine regarding their enviornmental agitation (not only the obvious about Hitler and many of his compatriots being Vegetarians, but also about the Third Reich having amongst the strictest and most savagely enforced animal cruelty laws ever enacted). The other environmentalist groups that were disbanded were usually disbanded for things like their LESS radical take on the issue, their tendency to go international or at least act internationally (which was a threat to the whole "Aryan supremacy" issue), annd in other words pretty much everything BUT their actual environmentalism.
  • Adolf Hitler could not stand cruelty to animals.
    • And then he ordered his dog Blondi be put to sleep near the end of the war, in a fit of insanity and paranoia.
      • He also drew the line at gas warfare, and never once ordered its usage on the battlefield.
        • But it was fine to be used on innocent civilians? ugh...
      • Probably more a case of Pragmatic Villainy and a bit of personal knowledge. He fought on the Western front and saw the effects of mustard gas firsthand. In fact, he was at one point hospitalized by it. It was notoriously difficult to control.
        • Time for a bit of clarification, Hitler killed Blondi to make sure that the suicide pills he had were genuine and to prevent her being taken by the Soviets and after her death was inconsolable. Gas warfare during WW2 was seen a lot like nuclear warfare is now and both sides had an unspoken agreement not to use it on each other.

Also removed the Natter about the Khmer Rouge, because it was, well, natter, and didn't actually have anything to do with standards.
09:47:35 AM Jun 3rd 2012
Also he thought the people he was killing was less Thrn human makeing it okay in his eyes
07:24:47 PM Nov 15th 2015
edited by KeithTyler
Al-Tawhid, an Islamist militant group which pledged allegiance to al-Qaeda in 2004, and was one of many resistance groups in post-Saddam Iraq; by 2013, having changed its name to ISIS, the group was completely disowned by al-Qaeda, which cited ISIS's recklessness and "notorious intransigence." You have to know that you've gone way too far when even AQ is against you, right?
05:18:37 PM May 28th 2010
In the One Piece section, it seems that Rob Lucci was disgusted with what Spandam did. Are there any episodes/chapters that show that Lucci is visibly disgusted, or am I just looking into it too much?
05:42:37 PM May 16th 2010
I'm a bit skeptical about Spike having standards for the purposes of ending the world. He's not opposed to it on any moral grounds, he's opposed to it because it would interfere with his preferred lifestyle.
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