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gfrequency
topic
10:36:20 PM Apr 17th 2012
Oh, for fuck's sake. Are we actually getting rid of this page as well? /sigh
Nithael
03:38:18 AM Apr 18th 2012
If i understand correctly this page, it's being discussed.
paddymcpaddy
topic
10:01:39 PM Oct 24th 2010
i don't have a better name for this, but 'euroshlock' has always bugged me as the name for this trope, since 'shlock' has, in my circle of friends, always implied that something is shitty in nature. bill landis of sleazoid express uses 'euroshlock' solely for grindhouse and sex films. it's kind of a subjective term, IMO.

'nouvelle nouvelle vague' or something like it would be better—anatomy of hell certainly strikes me as nouvelle nouvelle vague—but i'm not even sure that's a good name for this type of film.
egvesel
08:02:04 PM Feb 14th 2013
yes, the trope name is bad.
paddymcpaddy
10:42:21 AM May 9th 2013
nice to see someone else agrees with me. the implication is that the films are bad, which they aren't. even the films listed on the page are of a routinely high quality across the board.

it's just a very poor name for the trope, IMO. it encompasses too many different genres and too many directors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schlock to save the trouble of clicking the link; "Schlock is an English word of Yiddish origin meaning "something cheap, shoddy, or inferior"

whoever named the trope hasn't got much knowledge of slang, or they're applying it pretty indiscriminately.
rhbjorn
06:24:01 PM Sep 23rd 2013
So since there seems to be a consensus that this trope at least needs work, why is it locked instead of added to the repair shop.
Patachou
10:36:32 AM Oct 9th 2014
I agree with the others that the word Euroshlock is a bad title. You can't even find it anywhere on Wikipedia or on any other formal site. It may fit some films in the article, who are indeed sleazy and without much artistic quality, but others like In the Realm of the Senses have been praised by film critics and audiences alike as a great film. And it's not even European! It's sponsored with French money, yes, but it doesn't feature any European actors whatsoever in the story. The same goes for Ken Park. Sponsored with European money, yes, but it takes place in the USA and had American actors in the main role. (Though I agree that this one is indeed complete forgettable sleazy garbage) Man Bites Dog, Last Tango in Paris, Salo,.. on the other hand these are all critically acclaimed films. They should not be defined as shlock. It's seems to me that the person who made this article and added these titles has no idea what the term means and typically judges any arthousefilms with some controversial elements as trash.

I not only dislike the word shlock in the title: I also hate the word Euro, because it implies that such movies are only made in Europe. Films with a large amount of Squick are also made in Asia and the US, but you don't see an article called Amerishlock or Asiashlock on this site. A rather discriminating example of Creator Provincialism.

Also, what use is such an article if you're going to keep it locked for other users anyway? At this point it's already outdated, because newer films have come along. Nobody can add or correct anything, most of what is listed there is already categorized under Le Film Artistique of Exploitation Film, which are more neutral terms for such films than the degrading title Euroshlock. Just delete this article!
SeptimusHeap
moderator
11:09:39 AM Oct 9th 2014
Previous Trope Repair Shop thread. It was turned out because the rename reasons are insufficient.
Patachou
12:08:44 PM Oct 9th 2014
edited by 87.64.120.226
Well, my point isn't the name alone. It's the entire definition as such. What I also find fascinating about the discussion in the Trope Repair Shop is that most people talking about the subject don't even have a clue what kind of films these are and just generally assume Yeah, it's European arthouse trash, so 'Euroshlock' is actually a good title. To me, it's like taking a lot of Afro-American movies of bad quality and branding them as Negro Shit or defining bad American films as Yankee Garbage.

I can get why people don't like arthouse films or foreign films, but to dismiss a whole bunch of films, thrown together by someone with a specific dislike towards the genre, and then having other people who haven't even seen most of the examples here and can't judge whether this derogatory term fits or not to just be like Yeah, man, I hate 'difficult foreign movies' too, let's just smack a hateful name on it and even index these movies as being shlock, even though that violates the YMMV section and other people might even enjoy these movies.

Look at the Oscar Bait page. Also a degrading name, but at least the movies suggested and summarized there weren't indexed. Rightfully so, because defining whether something is good or bad in the index shouldn't be a concern of this site.
Ironeye
moderator
10:25:55 PM Oct 9th 2014
Re: Cut, if you want this gone, start a new topic in the Trope Repair Shop.
SeptimusHeap
moderator
01:08:35 AM Oct 10th 2014
^^To be frank, casting aspersions about the competence of the people posting in the repair thread just makes your position less credible. Also, it's rude.

Finally, looking at Google I see plenty of mentions of "euroshlock" as a genre and with similar attributes to the current page, so I don't buy the Cut List arguments, either.
Patachou
06:29:17 AM Oct 10th 2014
edited by 87.64.120.226
First of all, you may think my comments are rude, but I find it far more offensive that an article like this exists. Most people in the forum ask each other questions about what this Euroshlock is supposed to be and which films ought to belong to it. As I said before I don't mind people not knowing much about the subject or liking it either, but if the discussion is about the name and the definition and most people joining the discussion and finally deciding the final verdict are actually people who either just dislike the genre anyway and don't much about about it either, well, then you're not getting a very honest debate. I mean, I dislike computer games, but that's why I would never join in on debates about this topic. Because I wouldn't have enough knowledge or an open mind to discuss the value or importance of such matters. When I see films of quality defined as shlock and indexed as such, then I see it as a violation of neutrality. We had the same discussion with Cult Classic. All examples were cut in the end, because it's difficult to define such a subjective term. When I see films defined as Euroshlock, even though a huge chunk of them aren't even strictly European then I wonder why we are giving our readers such grossly subjective/badly defined info?

Also, you were one of the people in the debate about Euroshlock, so I can understand why you don't feel like going through that discussion again. But you don't have to join in if you don't want to. I just find it a pity that this article is created out of prejudices against a genre and has an equally derogatory name attached to it. If you look on the Internet you're probably gonna find somebody using the term Euroshlock or Crazy Nigger or Stupid Americans, but that doesn't mean that offensive term should be used as a title for an article. And I'm not making things up here. From the moment this article was created in the YMMV tab people have already felt it was just a list created by someone who just wanted to rant against a genre he dislikes.

To show that I can understand the other side of the argument: I would prefer the suggestions of films defined as Euroshlock to be moved to the YMMV tab and/or removed, just like happened with Cult Classic. Or the index removed, so that the examples listed don't pop up on other pages as if these films are effectively shlock made in Europe.
SeptimusHeap
moderator
07:56:16 AM Oct 10th 2014
The problem with naming the article another way is that "Euroshlock" is the term for a genre. One that we didn't name. We can't rename genres, really.
Patachou
11:26:44 AM Oct 10th 2014
Well, then just remove the examples or remove the indexes to the examples.

I mean a Cult Classic, or cult films are also considered a genre, but in that article examples have been removed because YMMV which films can be called a cult classic or cult movie.

I feel the same way with Euroshlock. Everyone will have another idea what kind of films to put there. So you might as well keep the text, keep the Trope examples, but leave out examples of specific films or at least don't make the page an index.
SeptimusHeap
moderator
12:29:46 PM Oct 10th 2014
I guess you ought to bring it up in the Trope Repair Shop, then.
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