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07:50:36 PM Apr 24th 2010
Serious natter under Videogames/Fallout 3. Could somebody please clean it up?
05:50:03 PM May 7th 2010
I cut it all; here it is if someone who's actually played the game wants to rewrite it:
- But then again, no one's saying ghouls are good, just people who shouldn't be judged by their looks. They should judged because they're assholes like everyone else. Also, doesn't anyone else think that Values Dissonance might set in after a nuclear holocaust?
- The only time you hear about this is in Tenpenny Tower, and
everyone inside it is obviously racist towards ghouls. It's entirely possible that they are just wrong. The gunning all of them down for no reason part still isn't justified.Megaton, where Gob makes it clear that he's treated like crap. And the whole Underworld exists is because ghouls would most likely be killed on sight. But other than that, it's not mentioned anywhere else.- The Ghoul-racism was horrible in Tenpenny Tower, but it was definitely justified as the residents of Tenpenny are murdered by the ghouls when you choose the Pro-Ghoul (allow the ghouls to slaughter everyone) or Diplomatic options.
- This troper isn't even sure that this could be considered justified in hindsight. Neither the player (regardless of choice) nor the Tenpenny Tower citizens had any way of knowing this would happen. Also, the ghouls in Megaton and the Ghoul-only city of Underworld never do anything remotely like what happens in Tenpenny Tower.
- On a completely unrelated note, Tenpenny Tower is owned by a guy who shoots at stuff in the wasteland from the safety of his home for fun and wants to blow up an entire town for no particularly good reason, and he's one of the few non-hostiles that you actually gain karma for killing. And this is in a game where you loose karma for killing complete horse's asses that probably had it coming! And the residents of Tenpenny Tower, just so we're clear, don't like ghouls because they look icky, not because they might kill them because they're sick of trying to buy their way in. So Yeah, everybody kinda sucks.
- Anyone else find it a little troubling that so many people here are trying to defend the elitist bigots? One of whom wants to blow up a town for shits and giggles? Not that the ghoul leader's any better, but still, people are defending racists, for God's sake! Kinda says something about you, troper...
- Self-righteous rants aside, there is a very legitimate reason for non-mutated humans to be prejudiced against non-feral ghouls. ANY ghoul could turn feral. Further exposure to radiation in the wastelands causes changes in a ghoul's neurology, turning them feral. The prejudice of the Tenpenny Tower residents is completely justified, as allowing the ghoul community in would, at the very least, be bringing a dozen plus ticking time bombs into their midst. An equivalent situation would be a survivor community in a zombie apocalypse universe denying zombie-bit individuals entrance. Doing so loses them nothing, and prevents the acquisition of a huge liability.
- It depends what they are defending racists against. In this case the racists are being threatened by an obviously trigger-happy blood-thirsty nut who will, just like his behavior strongly implies, eventually go on a rampage if the racists mend their ways and allow him entry. This does seem to be a bit more than karma calls for, except for Tenpenny.
- Listening to the underground ghoul leader talk about the humans, he's just as prejudiced. The difference? He's willing to set a pack of feral ghouls on them. Racist and cold blooded killer versus just racist... I'll stick with the lesser of two evils.
- Well, let's be fair now. The ghouls want to move into Tenpenny Tower. They bring absolutely nothing to the table. They're not going to die if they're left in the wastes. They just want in, and the residents don't want to let them in, and the ghouls are perfectly willing to murder people to get their way. Racism is a red herring in this argument - the ghouls are little better than any other wasteland raiders. The people of the tower are well within their rights to refuse the ghouls.
- Or you can just kill both Tenpenny and the ghoul leader.
- It should be noted that there is one non-bigoted Tenpenny Tower resident: Herbert "Daring" Dashwood, who once had a ghoul manservant and has a radio show chronicling their adventures. He is killed in the massacre.
- In fact, Herbert is almost in tears when he hears that his old ghoul friend died, and he was given the title of "honorary ghoul" by the citizens of Underworld.
- Anyone else find it a little troubling that so many people here are trying to defend the elitist bigots? One of whom wants to blow up a town for shits and giggles? Not that the ghoul leader's any better, but still, people are defending racists, for God's sake! Kinda says something about you, troper...
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topic
11:39:01 AM Oct 18th 2011
Cut:
- Superman: At World's End ends with an aesop about the evils of guns, and having Superman and some kids destroy a bunch of guns in a bonfire. A few pages earlier, Superman defeated his enemies with a huge gun. As Linkara argues, you can't make an aesop about how guns don't solve any problems, when that is exactly what you just did.
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topic
09:34:23 PM Feb 11th 2012
Considering the value judgment this trope entails for the works in question and its innate subjectivity, it should really be YMMV (as should Broken Aesop, most likely).
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