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Main Chaotic Evil Discussion
There was no reason given for Naraku from Inu Yasha being on this page; you can see my reasons for moving him under Neutral Evil on that page.
Question: Do you think Walter White of Breaking Bad is Lawful, Neutral, or Chaotic evil?
Frankly, I'm leaning more towards Chaotic, especially in later seasons. At first he has a set code, a purpose, and lines he will not cross. Definitely lawful, and perhaps just a darker shade of Neutral. But as the seasons have progressed, his code has been dismantled, and his original motivations are all but lost, and yet he doesn't seem to break stride at all. By the end of season 4, he's the only source of evil left in the series, and it looks like he's going to continue to do evil. He's not in it for the money, since he's made more than enough with Gus, and he's never shown much inclination towards greed beyond what his family needs to live comfortably. If we consider "making meth" to be "evil", then he's really just doing it For The Evulz. Because he's good at it. Because he's proud of his work. Because he enjoys the freedom of doing whatever the hell he wants, and the thrill of riding on the edge of the law. That sounds Chaotic Evil to me.
I changed this a while ago, but Serial Killers are not by definition chaotic evil. They can fit any alignment but labelling the average one Chaotic seems to be making the For The Evulz = Chaotic Evil fallacy. Serial Killers may or may not hurt or kill people for fun, or they may have some kind of delusion or mania that compels them to kill or makes them think they have a duty to kill. Several kill for profit, or for power. The ones who kill for fun are usually Neutral Evil, and have otherwise normal lives and killing is more like their "hobby". They are looking to satisfy their evil impulses, but that alone does not make them Chaotic Evil.
Serial Killers are too varied a bunch to neatly fit into one single category.
If you want to argue about Discord being Chaotic Evil, please do so here, not on the main page. I will say that acting kind of randomly is definitely Chaotic. Arbitrariness is the opposite of following consistent rules or principles.
Is Kratos really a Villain Protagonist? I'm not arguing about his alignment (Chaotic Evil pretty much defines him) but at least he cares about 3 or 4 people; the gods don't seem to care about anyone. Can it really be proven that they're "better" than he is, outside of fan interpretation? It seems to be more of a case of Black And Gray Morality.
Can a character still be considered Chaotic Evil if they're an Ax Crazy Psycho For Hire Blood Knight who just happens to have Undying Loyalty only to the Big Bad?
Removing:
- Gaius Baltar of Battlestar Galactica - cynical, cowardly, egotistical, manipulative and prepared to sacrifice anyone and anything for his own comfort and security.
I removed Xellos (Slayers) Entry, Because he is Really Lawful Evil.
- He is totally loyal to Zelas.
I removed Caim's entry
- Caim from Drakengard is a disturbed, bloodthirsty fellow who enjoys slaughtering his enemies. True, he can show love and affection towards people like Furiae or the red dragon Angelus, but for the most part, he's just happy to kill as many Empire soldiers or monsters as possible.
Removed the following
- * The Comedian, Edward Blake, from Watchmen lives to do whatever he feels like - whether it's rape, killing the mother of his unborn child, killing children, burning the Vietcong alive or whatever else happens to enter his mind to suit his mood - Blake is a magnificent bastard that serves only himself (even if he is employed by the US military, he only uses this as a means to continue getting pleasure out of hurting others).
- And yet he is still horrified by Ozymandias' plan to wipe out New York to ensure world peace.
- he wasn't horrified by it. He himself told another that the plan was probably necessary, but he was disturbed because it would be create a world in which he would no longer have a place.
- And yet he is still horrified by Ozymandias' plan to wipe out New York to ensure world peace.
- Arthur Burns from The Proposition. Although he does love his friends, he is a monstrous monstrous man.
- Mr. Jonathan Teatime (pronounced Teh-ah-tim-ah) in the Discworld novel Hogfather. Other Guild Assassins take professional pride in inhuming the target with no collateral damage to bystanders, whenever possible; but to Teatime, killing is art for art's sake.
- Blaz Blue's Yuuki Terumi (a.k.a. Hazama) has, as his overall plot, the desire to create the Kusanagi, the sword that slays the gods. To do this, he's performed almost every single atrocity that occurs in the game towards any of the other characters. And we mean everything. He fucked up Ragna's life by cutting off his arm and kidnapping his sister, fucked up Jin's life by giving him the sword that messed with his mind, fucked up Noel's life by turning her into the Kusanagi (not that anything had gone well for her before), fucked up Arakune's life by turning him into the monster he is, etc. And, thus far, his actions have mainly been For The Evulz. Needless to say, he's kind of a dick.
- HK-47 from Knights of the Old Republic cheerfully asks to kill every living thing he sees; he only has his master's metaphorical leash stopping him from becoming a literal non-stop killing machine.
- Not to mention the ammo and droid body upkeep issues his master takes care of.
- Lord Blazer from Wild Arms 2, who spends almost the entire game bragging to Ashley about how he nearly destroyed Filgaia and mocking him for his idealism. Judecca is a tough call between this and Neutral Evil.
Removed the following
- The Reavers from Firefly. If given half a chance, they'll rape you to death, eat your flesh, and sew your skin into their clothing. And if you're very. very lucky, they'll do it in that order. What's especially ironic about them is that they were created by a group of Lawful Stupid scientists in a botched attempt to find a drug that would render mankind completely good, peaceful and law-abiding.
- Claggart in Billy Budd. He's described as being "naturally depraved" and he wants to destroy the hero so badly (without a reason) that he provokes the boy into killing him, just to be sure he'll be hanged. Although Your Mileage May Vary on the "no reason" part.
- Tira, Cervantes, and Nightmare in Soul Calibur. Soul Edge has rendered them all insane killing machines with little regard for who's on the other side of the blade.
- Kratos of God of War is an Ax Crazy berserker whose primary motivation is the death of anyone who pisses him off, and many people who don't.
- The best example is the very beginning of the first game, where he kills the ship's captain for the sake of it, then when he encounters him in Hades soon after throws him into the River Styx.
- Several supervillains in the Whateley Universe, including The Necromancer, and Don Sebastiano. Don Sebastiano has a couple helpless mindslaves... so he mistreats and violates them for fun.
Removed the following
- Akakabuto from Ginga Nagareboshi Gin is an example of a monster with limited intelligence, who enjoys the act of killing just for the sake of killing. He will kill anyone and anything that crosses his path, for the sole reason of crossing his path; if you didn't want to be brutally slaughtered, you should have stayed away from his territory.
Well i am putting the examples deleted by K Sonik here to if someone decide reput them be easier to them remember put as they fit the trope:
◊ from Warcraft. He was pretty much nothing more than an engine of destruction who would be released on the enemies of the Burning Legion to slaughter all he could reach. Sure, he contributed to the ordered corruption of the orcs, but that was under the plans of Lawful Evil demons and warlocks.
- Ali Al-Saachez from Gundam 00 is a highly skilled mercenary and terrorist who admits that he lives solely for war and conflict, and while he occasionally finds ways to using intelligence, he feels much more at home on the battlefield, where he gets to kill without restraint.
- Ladd Russo from Baccano!. As thoroughly entertaining as he may be, one has to remember that this is a man who casually ignores an opportunity to make a quick $200,000 in favor of blowing off the head of a ten-year-old for shits and giggles.
- Akakabuto from Ginga Nagareboshi Gin is an example of a monster with limited intelligence, who enjoys the act of killing just for the sake of killing. He will kill anyone and anything that crosses his path, for the sole reason of crossing his path; if you didn't want to be brutally slaughtered, you should have stayed away from his territory.
- Arthur Burns from The Proposition. Although he does love his friends, he is a monstrous monstrous man.
- Lord John Whorfin from Buckaroo Banzai. "He's a vicious psychopath, Tommy. Just as soon kill ya as go fishin'..."
- Anton. Fucking. Chigurh.
- Fenrir Greyback, whose sole objective in life is to turn as many children as possible into werewolves... Or kill them, whichever strikes his fancy. And of course, Lord Voldemort himself. In the words of Albus Dumbledore, "he shows just as little mercy to his followers as he does his enemies".
- Mr. Jonathan Teatime (pronounced Teh-ah-tim-ah) in the Discworld novel Hogfather. Other Guild Assassins take professional pride in inhuming the target with no collateral damage to bystanders, whenever possible; but to Teatime, killing is art for art's sake.
- A Song of Ice and Fire: Vargo Hoat and The Brave Companions, better known as the Bloody Mummers; the most vile, depraved, sickening mercenary troop in all the known lands. Yes, probably worse than Gregor Clegane's band of evil thugs even.
- Mind you, Gregor Clegane is about as Chaotic Evil as they come. Whether it's killing children or massacring civilians during wartime or his decision to have an innkeeper's daughter gang raped by his men just because, you never know what Gregor's going to do, just that it will be as abhorrent as possible.
- Lord Foul, the Big Bad of the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. His ultimate goal is to break out of his Sealed Evil Can, but that can just happens to be an entire planet. It is heavily implied that even if he had no chance of breaking out, he would still kill and/or torture everyone on the planet just for the Hell of it.
- Claggart in Billy Budd. He's described as being "naturally depraved" and he wants to destroy the hero so badly (without a reason) that he provokes the boy into killing him, just to be sure he'll be hanged. Although Your Mileage May Vary on the "no reason" part.
- The Reavers from Firefly. If given half a chance, they'll rape you to death, eat your flesh, and sew your skin into their clothing. And if you're very. very lucky, they'll do it in that order. What's especially ironic about them is that they were created by a group of Lawful Stupid scientists in a botched attempt to find a drug that would render mankind completely good, peaceful and law-abiding.
- Gaius Baltar of Battlestar Galactica - cynical, cowardly, egotistical, manipulative and prepared to sacrifice anyone and anything for his own comfort and security. Also a fine example of how Chaotic Evil and Stupid Evil are NOT the same thing.
- Shadows from Babylon Five are perceived like this in the beginning - an ancient sinister race that emerges from the deepest bowels of cosmos to annihilate everything in its path with world-shattering firepower and insisdios treachery. Truth turns out a wee bit more complicated. Essentially, they ARE everything mentioned above, except that their ultimate goal is to kick-drive their enemies (whom they rather see as students) up the evolutionary and technological ladder. Thus they are perfectly happy when they eventually loose the battle and are driven away to return in a thousand years for another "lesson".
- The Archons of 4e aren't too far behind him. They are disciplined, regimented, highly organized and otherwise you'd think they were personifications of Lawful Neutral or Lawful Evil. However, they are living weapons whose sole reason to exist is to kill everything else that exists. They're not really sentient, as such, just pure, highly developed, militaristic instinct — they don't squabble over power because each instinctively knows how strong it is and how it relates to other Archons in that regard. They do act as mercenaries, but that's merely a way to acquire treasure (to lure would-be thieves to them so they can fight them) and an excuse to kill. They have no understanding of mercy, kindness, love, peace or anything that doesn't revolve around killing... and they have no capacity to learn to understand such concepts. To live is to kill. To kill is to live. There is nothing else to Archons.
- Ashnard from Fire Emblem is a great example of this. He's a Blood Knight who killed his own family to take the throne. He doesn't believe in tradition, and his sole desire is to rule through strength. He finds the idea of loyalty to the dead ridiculous. His only real positive quality is he will accept anyone regardless of class and race if they are strong.
- HK-47 from Knights of the Old Republic cheerfully asks to kill every living thing he sees; he only has his master's metaphorical leash stopping him from becoming a literal non-stop killing machine.
- Not to mention the ammo and droid body upkeep issues his master takes care of.
- Blaz Blue's Yuuki Terumi (a.k.a. Hazama) has, as his overall plot, the desire to create the Kusanagi, the sword that slays the gods. To do this, he's performed almost every single atrocity that occurs in the game towards any of the other characters. And we mean everything. He fucked up Ragna's life by cutting off his arm and kidnapping his sister, fucked up Jin's life by giving him the sword that messed with his mind, fucked up Noel's life by turning her into the Kusanagi (not that anything had gone well for her before), fucked up Arakune's life by turning him into the monster he is, etc. And, thus far, his actions have mainly been For The Evulz. Needless to say, he's kind of a dick.
- Caim from Drakengard is a disturbed, bloodthirsty fellow who enjoys slaughtering his enemies. True, he can show love and affection towards people like Furiae or the red dragon Angelus, but for the most part, he's just happy to kill as many Empire soldiers or monsters as possible.
- Arioch, the insane female elf fighter, is probably Chaotic Evil herself; and so was Manah as a child... and, of course, the Grotesquieries.
- The Big Bads in Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal (the one in Shadows of Amn is Neutral Evil, with a Chaotic Evil Dragon) are both good examples of intelligent, patient Chaotic Evil.
- Korgan Bloodaxe is pretty much everything you could ask for from an Chaotic Evil Ax Crazy Psycho For Hire. And he's on your side.
- Not to mention Shar-Teel in the original game, where her Blood Knight tendencies are driven to the extreme due to her unadulterated hatred of men.
- Korgan Bloodaxe is pretty much everything you could ask for from an Chaotic Evil Ax Crazy Psycho For Hire. And he's on your side.
- Gig from Soul Nomad and the World Eaters; brash, deceptive, impulsive, crude, attempts to solve all his long-term problems (mainly the one that there's people still alive on the same plane of existence as he) with simple short-term solutions (mainly killing everything in sight) and turned the protagonist's homeworld into a slowly dying dustbowl because he thinks wanton slaughter of mortals is fun. Oh yeah, and he's on your side, which turns the game into a rather interesting case of being the Kid With The Leash. As the game progresses, however, he goes into a shift from Chaotic Evil to Chaotic Neutral. That's on the normal path anyway. On the demon path he's Chaotic Evil to the very end.
- Of course, let's not forget the one guy who's worse than that: You, in the Demon Path, who decides to just go kill everyone because he or she felt like it. Oh, and Gig in that storyline? Eventually, you absorb him instead of the other way around if you win the final battle. Fun stuff.
- The other World Eaters also fit into here save for Feinne, who is barely sentient. Thuris could also be considered Neutral Evil.
◊ from Warcraft. He was pretty much nothing more than an engine of destruction who would be released on the enemies of the Burning Legion to slaughter all he could reach. Sure, he contributed to the ordered corruption of the orcs, but that was under the plans of Lawful Evil demons and warlocks.
- Deathwing the Destroyer◊. Even though he does do a lot of villainous planning, in the end he's a freaking lunatic whose entire soul is broken. He seems to abandon his own dragonflight around the point of Warcraft II so he can continue without them.
- Deathwing the Destroyer
- Lord Blazer from Wild Arms 2, who spends almost the entire game bragging to Ashley about how he nearly destroyed Filgaia and mocking him for his idealism. Judecca is a tough call between this and Neutral Evil.
- Jeremy from Wild Arms 4 arguably started out as Neutral Evil. However, when you face him for the last time, he's definitely descended into this alignment, mainly because becoming part-ARM made him completely Ax Crazy.
- Kartikeya from Wild ARMs 5. Complete lunatic; who knows why the other members of the villainous five keep him around?
- Tira, Cervantes, and Nightmare in Soul Calibur. Soul Edge has rendered them all insane killing machines with little regard for who's on the other side of the blade.
- Most Daedra of The Elder Scrolls. Sheogorath is the quintessential and charming example, extremely powerful and more likely to send flaming pets raining down on a village as provide useful advice. The only rule he follows is that he won't make things more sane ...except when his curse de-activates.
- Sheogorath is more like a pendulum that swings between Chaotic Evil, Chaotic Neutral and Chaotic Good (He is the prince of madness after all). On one hand, he's a psychopath and Ax Crazy, on the other hand he helped the Chimer (who later became the dark elves) move from Summerset Isle and form their pre-tribunal culture. He's also very keen on punishing those that deserve it, or teaching lessons to people. And he invented music.
- The Kohr-Ah probably also qualify, as opposed to their Lawful Evil counterparts the Kzer-Zah. The Kzer-Zah believe that the key to their race's survival is to enslave everybody else, thus bringing order and hierarchy to the galaxy. The Kohr-Ah on the other hand just kill. Anyone and everything that isn't them must die.
- Deathjester from Seiken Densetsu 3 qualifies. He brainwashes two best friends of the main characters into attacking them and helps the Dark Lich gain control of the Mana Sword just for giggles.
- In Silent Hill 2 and Homecoming, at least. In all of the other games, the town is controlled by a human being; usually Chaotic Evil in their own right, but in one case, Chaotic Good.
- Erol/Errol becomes this in Jak 3.
- Omega from Megaman Zero series fits here. His creator, Dr. Weil, is a tough call between this and Neutral Evil.
- Omega seemed like Chaotic Neutral to me, he wasn't really aware of what he was doing, he was just following orders from Weil.
- Leon the Black Knight from Yggdra Union is a bloodthirsty, batshit insane warrior who thinks nothing of slaughtering anyone who crosses him. He's probably the most evil character along with the Lawful Evil Mardym.
- Kratos of God of War is an Ax Crazy berserker whose primary motivation is the death of anyone who pisses him off, and many people who don't.
- The best example is the very beginning of the first game, where he kills the ship's captain for the sake of it, then when he encounters him in Hades soon after throws him into the River Styx.
- In God Of War III, he begins a Heel Face Turn upon meeting Pandora. While it doesn't push him completely from this alignment he does begin to become somewhat less Ax Crazy and ultimately performs a Heroic Sacrifice to restore hope to the world.
- Vega/Balrog in Street Fighter series. A suave nobleman by day, and a killer of ugly people by night, he enjoys mutilating ugly people to death using a three-pronged wrist-mounted razor-sharp claw.
- Morinth from Mass Effect 2. Has a genetic condition that kills the people she has sex with, and spends her time manipulating people into adoring her, then kills them with said condition when she's bored of them. Once, she used Samara's Knight Templar code to force Samara to kill an entire village of people she'd brainwashed into going after Samara.
- Bangladesh Dupree from Girl Genius, a former pirate who works with Baron Wulfenbach because he gives her lots of opportunities to kill and torture people.
- Actually, she shows little problems in following orders. That would make her a textbook example of Neutral Evil
- Pierre Buzarde', Psychofor Hire villain of Rubys World . Kills his own Mooks on a whim, talks about torture like an art form, and believes that taking someone alive means he can still render them brain-damaged from asphyxiation.
- Several supervillains in the Whateley Universe, including The Necromancer, and Don Sebastiano. Don Sebastiano has a couple helpless mindslaves... so he mistreats and violates them for fun.
- The dummy in Ruby Quest is probably this.
- Galvatron from Transformers. Megatron's evil with the added flavor of damaged sanity chips thanks to a prolonged plasma bath he took in the planet he crash landed in after the events of Transformers The Movie. He's prone to shooting his own troops just for the heck of it and is as much a detriment to his own plans as the Autobots are due to his psychosis. It reached the point where an episode had his loyal second-in-command sending him to a sentient Therapy Planet by force in hopes of curing him. Not only did it fail, but when the planet interfaced with him in an attempt to lobotomize him, he drove it insane with his madness before killing it then razing its entire civilization to the point where it will take centuries to rebuild.
Removed this blatantly untrue statement from the Doctor Who examples: "It took a lot of forward planning and political manipulation for the Master get to that point, something that Chaotic evil characters are incapable of." There's nothing about Chaotic Evil that renders villains unable to plan ahead and manipulate. Indeed, exploiting the system in order to bring that system crashing down is the sort of thing intelligent Chaotic Evil villains find absolutely hilarious. (See: Joker, the.)
Is "goes around slaughtering people" really textbook Chaotic Evil? Okay, that's a bad way to phrase it — serial killers killing for the sake of killing people certainly do fit the profile, but the introduction speaks of it as though it were the way to go about Chaotic Evil.
The Clockwork Orange picture doesn't give much impression of chaos or evil at all. I thought a picture of the Joker used to be up here, but I couldn't find it in the history or an image search, so I settled for something I found along the way...
I do not believe that Token Evil Teammate is used as example, There are very Examples of Token Evil Teammate that aren't Chaotic Evil
Examples
- Revy: Neutral Evil or Chaotic Evil
- Mayuri: Neutral Evil
- Kenpachi: Chaotic Neutral
- Ikki: Chaotic Neutral Or Chaotic Good
- Mugen: Chaotic Neutral
- Xellos: Lawful Evil
- Hiei: Chaotic Neutral
- Luciano bradley: Neutral Evil or Chaotic Evil
- Lelouch: Chaotic Neutral or Neutral Evil
- November 11: Lawful Neutral
- Emma frost: True Neutral
- Deadpool: Chaotic Neutral
- Lobo: Neutral Evil or Chaotic Evil (Depending on the writer)
- Dr house: Chaotic Neutral
- Belkar: Chaotic Evil
- Mr krabs: Neutral Evil
Would anyone be in opposition to the "some men just wanna watch the world burn" quote being put at the top of this page? I can't remember if it was there already and was removed, but I would think it sums up Chaotic Evil quite nicely.
Hello Some New Guy
Seriously what is your problem with me? Did you even read my edit reasons? I didn't remove his entry for no reasons, I removed it for a legitimate reason. Psychos For Hire working for someone else would be evil that have no problem doing as someone else wants them to do as long as it serves their goal in the long term. Chaotic Evil being all about the kind of evil that does as they wish, not as other people wishes would not fit the Psycho for Hire archetype.
And how dare you put back in an entry for a character that is clearly not Chaotic Evil. Did you even read the disclaimer before putting back the entry? It clearly said "It should be clarified Chaotic Evil does not mean the most evil or stupid, in it For The Evulz (it can be a motivation to any villain of any evil alignment) nor even psychotic. Do not simply put a character here with the logic he's really evil, stupid or crazy. They will be deleted." Seriously, did you?
It seems that you have got the whole alignment wrong. Chaotic Evil characters are simply free spirited (and sometimes destructive) evil guys that are against any kind of institution, government, laws, tardition, etc. Chaotic evil does not mean "crazy evil" or "evil for the sake of evil." I was not being a vandalist when I removed that entry. If anything, the mere fact that you totally ignored the whole description, never once thinking about whether that character really fit this alignment, would make you the vandalist
Aside from in the third film, Pinhead isn't chaotic evil. He serves Leviathan and takes whoever solves the Lament Configuration to experience an eternity of pleasure/pain(although he's open to a little bargaining). So, I'd say that's neutral evil.
Removed Yazan Gable, Kyoko, Luciano Bradley and Valter's entries. There mere fact that they are bloodthirsty warmongers would perhaps be enough to qualify for this alignment except for the fact that well... they have no problem being subservient to someone else!
The whole point of the Chaotic part in Chaotic Evil is that you are a free spirited individualist that serves no authority. Chaotic characters respond poorly to authority precisely because submitting to them means that you'll have to lose your freedom because they'll need to do as other people wants and not what they want to do.
So in short, Chaotic Evil chacters would never choose to serve somebody else because it would go against the Chaotic part of their alignment. and For The Evulz =/= Chaotic Evil. There have been cases of characters that despite not being Chaotic Evil are in it for fun ie. Shego from Kim Possible
I hope you understand now why these characters are not chaotic evil
Removed the following
- Shenzi, Banzai and Ed from The Lion King. They're definitely evil - they eat their own boss at the end of the first film - but they're also chaotic. They'd love to kill little cub Simba but they also stand around cracking so many bad jokes about how they'll do it that they don't even notice him getting away.
Would Fred Phelps count as a real-life example? I know the page says don't add any, but this is a pretty obvious one...
Sovvil: you might disagree with me, but i think Bagladesh Dupree is more Neutral Evil than Chaotic Evil. Sure, she's a psycho, but she doesn't exactly resent being given orders, which is an important aspect which separates the Chaotic Evil from the Neutral Evil